Alright, I understand that. The game however skipped the Retreat phase as well where it could theoretically possible to lose an 18th center again, thus my question whether you win instantly upon touchdown.

Retreats are skipped on a winning turn. As soon as you capture #18 you're safe even if someone could retreat into a win-denying center.

I'd like it for retreats to be factured in. But I guess it's tricky enough to get to 18 without that.

Is this conform with official rules? The Avalon Hill edition states that "After a fall turn, if one Great Power controls 18 or more ..." and by "fall turn" it means the entire turn including retreats and builds ...

I can see how builds can be forgone, but retreats some like they could turn a match yet.

Actually ... people who lose their last SC on the winning turn still count as survivors, which by the book they shouldnt.

I think retreats are supposed to be factored... there's been talk for a while about that but I don't remember what the official decision was. I agree with you guys, retreats ought to be considered.

And while I don't mind 0-SC survives, you count as a survivor if you have SCs or units left. If we went with the rulebook, it includes the build phase, which means removing the final units of those 0-SC powers.

I don't mind it if someone survives with 0 SC's, they would get no points back anyways and be registered as a survivor.

The lack of a retreat phase bugs me, lack of a build (and 0 SC survivors) much less so.

There is nothing in the official rules about survives so pitching a fit over something as inconsequential as a zero SC survive is stupid. The only real flaw is not having fall retreats which could stop the win and, in the case of PPSC, could alter the SC counts of survivors.

Oh and builds happen in winter and summer, so technically not part of the spring and fall phases.

builds happen in winter, not summer ;)

agreed completely with others on here - if indeed that is the case, that a fall retreat is not allowed before the winner declared (ie, the retreat could put somoene back down to 17) then that is a BIG mistake in the coding on this site.

the winter build is irrelevant, but the fall retreat is VERY much relevant.

also - does this mean if a fall retreat puts you INTO the 18th center, it wont count as a win until you hold them till the next fall?? that would be wrong as well.

the 0 center survive is an annoyance, but nothing more. agreed with others. I look at survives as no different than eliminates anyways, so its really irrelevant to me.

Yeah, typo in what is the early part of the day for me (Sundays start at noon). :-).

But the point is, They are winter builds, not fall.

Has this really not been brought up before? Surely someone must have taken note of this before. It seems like skipping that last Retreat could potentially a big thing...

If however this is something new and turns into something people will want to have fixed, I propose that it be called the 'Brown-Conundrum' after the author of its first description. ;)

It has been brought up time and time again. Nothing new at all.

Here is what the rulebook says...

Each turn has a series of phases. Here are the phases in a complete two-turn year:

Spring four-phase turn
1. Diplomatic phase
2. Order Writing phase
3. Order Resolution phase
4. Retreat and Disbanding phase

Fall five-phase turn
1. Diplomatic phase
2. Order Writing phase
3. Order Resolution phase
4. Retreat and Disbanding phase
5. Gaining and Losing Units phase

After a Fall turn, if one Great Power controls 18 or more supply
centers, the game ends and that player is declared the winner.


So, for the record, there aren't really "winter" builds. The build phase is part of the fall turn and the declaration of the winner should officially be after that. But in reality, the most important part is that it be after the fall retreat phase.

Besides, having a survive on your record, at least for WTA, is a stain worse than being eliminated, IMHO. So I'm fine with 0 center survives. Serves them right. (I'm ashamed I got myself one of those recently too by the way.)

The only problem with the 0 SC survivals is when the game ends in a draw. Far too often, people who don't know about this game flaw draw the game prematurely with a guy with 0 SC's.

Retreats should be part of the last supposed phase, and this problem should be corrected, but I have the feeling that his causes problems with the code the way it's written. I'm sure it could be corrected by changing the location of a function call.

Draws have nothing to do with a zero SC survive. Voting to early could happen regardless.