well ... I think most people here know about it, Oli (Oliver who runs it) is very nice and an enthusiast for the variants, we certainly all appreciate what he does for this hobby. Vdiplomacy runs on the same programming as this site, in some ways you might call it kind of a sister site ... now, the "no comparison" part? A lot of people really prefer the classic game ...

No comparison? One is a sister site with untested variants set up in part to aid development of those variants, the other is well tested but more modest, with a much larger community.

Its a matter of preference....

I like the olidip site (what it was called before vdiplomacy), but variants never do as well as the real thing. Like Woofers, I use it for fun or to play when I'm at work and have down time. (webdiplomacy is blocked, but vdiplomacy isn't) There is also a German language sister site diplomacy.s-website.de and goondip went offline about a year and a half ago I think.

Ghost +1 .... but I do like Oli's site, I also agree with woofers, I think I play a little more seriously here and just for giggles sometimes over there

What Rancher said. Although I think maybe one or two of the VDip variants could be moved here. There's a lot of them that are better than the world map one for sure.

Seems like a matter of taste...granted I wouldn't mind one or two more variants--such as the Colonial variant of the actual game--but really...

We have the best FORUM of any Diplomacy site, I'd say, very active... ;)

I think Kestas is trying not to overload this site with variants and would only consider those that are truly solid, coding wise. World has it's problems with the late game convoys taking a seriously to compute in javascript and I'm sure Kestas wishes he would not have implemented it for that reason.

If anything was going to be added I agree with obi, I like colonial... even the stats on vdip for it are pretty even and I consider it a great balanced variant

Well, I mentioned Colonial because it's an "official" variant, it's a real board game variant/sister of regular Diplomacy.

The only "fan" variant I've ever cared to see in action, as a fan of Italy, is "Fleet Rome," where, true to the name, Italy starts with a fleet in Rome, rather than an Army (which would really make Italy more resepcted in many palyer's eyes, I think, since really, if Italy becomes a pwoer on the board, it's due to her fleets, after England she's arguably the nationj most depent on them, so that swtich just makes sense.)

What makes Colonial official, may I ask? I've never seen it as a published board game.

It was published by Avalon Hill before they went away and were reborn as a Hasbro subsidiary. You can find the game on e-bay. I have a copy in the closet next to my diplomacy game with wooden blocks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Colonial-Diplomacy-1994-/220782630434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367ab9622#ht_500wt_1156
Link to a current offering

So it *was* published as a boardgame.

"I think Kestas is trying not to overload this site with variants and would only consider those that are truly solid, coding wise. World has it's problems with the late game convoys taking a seriously to compute in javascript and I'm sure Kestas wishes he would not have implemented it for that reason. "
I was under the impression that it was mainly to keep this site clear and simple. Many are very stable.

Yes it "was".

I thought I remembered Kestas saying he would entertain one or two more if they were shown to be stable and popular.

I can play with Portugal :)

I have played Colonial on a board before. However, I really do not like this variant.

I would say that webdip is the parent site of vdip. Especially since vdip draws most of its player base from here.

Think that was the consensus yes LJ, although I would probably agree that the software on vdip is now past this here, since (for example) some of the world map bugs have been sorted. I'm not a fan of the colour scheme there, but I realise that's because it had to look distinct from this place, preferably without too many code changes.

confused as to why ell365 is even on this site, if vdip is SOOOO much better? :)

I'm more of a diplomacy traditionalist I guess, I tried out"olidip" and found it to be a little less fun, the vars were cool, but I had no base strategies to use.

The problem with Colonial is that the Trans-Siberian railway isn't implemented yet.
I have to say I spend more time over @ vdip than here (and am playing in more games there than here) but as for better or worse, I simply prefer to play more variants. I find that the strategy is more fluid and open in variants - as players come to grips with new map layouts and occasional rule changes.

Speaking from my experience, playing variants has actually helped me become a more solid player in the classic game we all know and love.

who is this clown that dares to speak like that about our site?
Ban him.

I have visions of a red ball nose and big Ronald McDonald shoes now ...

i really like the two player variants. Italy vs germany is unbalanced, but you can do a round robin style competition (ie each player plays each country) and call that a 'round' with a score based on SC. then a multi-round tournament (with different two-play variants for each round)... i think you could have a lot of fun!

i wonder if germany vs france would be good/balanced too. hmm.

I honestly think that this site, if it was to have more variants, should only include those impressively stable, but also balanced in game terms (which is why I think that the world dip variant should probably be removed and replaced with something more balanced, like colonial).

Don't believe the hype you hear about World being unbalanced. With maybe one exception, any nation can do well in World. I hear all this "India is so strong" stuff, but my China took down India pretty quickly. It's all in who you ally with and who you make enemies with. The balance is there if you know the relative strengths of the nations and form alliances for or against the inherently strong ones.

But when people say unbalanced, they mean from within the game, not from a perspective outside it. One power could start with 17 SC, and the other players could still ally against him, but that'd be one hell of an unbalanced map.

@Draug -precisely.
The trouble is, until people are vaguely competent with a map, these factors will not be accounted for.

I think world map is starting to get more awareness though. I know I feel confident I can handle any nation thrown at me, even Frozen Antartica. And if you look at it from a purely strategic/tactical point of view, Austria and Germany have so many potential enemies in classic and France has two free builds. Hardly balanced from that perspective.

You guys are ignoring Stukus' point, which is a great counter-perspective to draug's point.
There are stories of Edi rumbling back from a 3 center near destruction to win a game. That's just good play-ing.

A balanced map allows for everyone to be in a stable position at the start, where some alliances will help them, and some will hurt them, and very little major differences other than the players skill will affect the outcome.

My major problem with the world variant? I've never seen a game where south africa isn't one of the first 3 nations removed (excluding CDs and NMRs). South africa is in a MAJOR disadvantage that only the most highly skilled player will be able to do much with it.

And draug.... france doesn't have two free builds. It's just that everyone that plays england on this site is so norway focused that you can count on the worst thing england will do is only try to move a fleet into the EC.

Unless Italy or Germany helps, I can provide a set of moves that, no matter England's moves, guarantees a two build year 01 for France everytime.

no

No what?

Bre-MAO-Por
Par-Bur (bounce with Ger) - Bre
Mar-Pie (bounce with Italy) - Spa

Unless Germany moves to

Unless Germany opts not to move to Bur or France not to move to Pie (you need to figure this out in advance with them), those moves work well.

italy and germany 'helping'? If italy and germany 'help' england, france doesn't have a prayer. If italy and germany are decent players, france HAS to account for a pie move and a bur move. France is never 'guaranteed' belgium, so you have spa/por. And they aren't guaranteed.

If italy moves to pie and you are in spa, he doesn't move in the fall, but you account for the move on pie, you don't get spa. If you stay in mar, you have to account for the pie move, so you can't move to spa. That prevents you from even considering par taking spa and mar taking por. If you move par-gas and convoy to por, you are assuming that germany isn't invading bur and england isn't invading the channel...
and mao being free assumes england isn't in the channel.

So, no, you are not "guaranteed" any neutral sc. In every one of those scenarios, each country is working independently, not together, because an alliance or pact isn't necessary for any of those moves to happen.

Also, for the record, I think it is poor to take all of iberia in 1901 unless france is seriously under stress. Growing too fast in the beginning of the game is a bad thing in any game of veterans. Because 90% of the time, the biggest nation gets slapped down hard at the beginning of mid-game. Growing fast == paranoia == most (if not all) other players teaming up against you. But I'm going off track... from me going off track.

With Par-Gas, Mar-Bur, Bre-Mao, you have not guaranteed two builds, but it has become rather likely.

To screw that up, England has to open to the channel, and Italy to Piedmont.

ven-pie is one of the best ways italy can ensure he keeps france honest. Should be used a lot more than it is (though I'll admit my paranoia of austria usually prevents this).