It's hard to stop, and really annoying. If you've ever played a fighting game, you can think of it as a tactic of having people hide in the corner and/or run....

It's something people do that, to me, seems a little mean-spirited.

Mean-spirited? Sounds perfect for Diplomacy.

it's not hard to stop, italy and austria just need to work with each other, russia still has to play with england and germany in the north if he wants to make gains there, so without good play russia makes no gains.

Italy austria on the other hand are both weak countries (well austria usually developes well if he survives til 1904, so weak to begin with) - thus to begin with Austria and Italy should never go to war, essentially negating most advances of the juggernaut.

lol italy and austria ALWAYS need to work together...

well you said that nvm

Italy can afford war with Austria, but not the other way around.

If the western powers stay divided and Italy and austria battle each other it works fine.But if England and Germany work together it can stop Russian growth there.And force him back south.
In most juggernaunts Russia is the big brother and aids Turkish progress which is normally slow this allows Russia to stay in the north and center.Once Turkey enters this parrtnership I find it hard for them to break out of it as France will aid Italy and whats left of Austria in the south and if russia is stronger don't want to be put out as quickly as they started west so he will honor the treaty.
I find most expeinced players call juggernaunt as soon as russia and turkey help each other in anyway even if it is only a one turn thing.This causes a more permanent alliance between Turkey and Russia for once the cats out of the bag it's hard to put back.mutual survival is then the game they must play.
As for cheap I would say no if ain't broken don't fix it.Other countries shold be ready for all things that work. Western triple,Lepteno and Juggernaunt.

Even so, there are few tactics as effective as a Juggernaut that is properly applied.

lepanto played properly with trust is in my opinion the strongest unless turkey, germany and russia are allied

What trust? A proper Lepanto, as-in the original version, leaves Italy with one unit that could be used for defense. So, you have some wiggle room for failure and mistrust. Even so, it isn't unstoppable.

well nothing is unstoppable apart from USA and their nukes.. have you played that variant?

lol

I think doofman means a strong Austrian Italian alliance when he says lepanto.
This works well as no one feels threatened by the alliance, so don't ally against you.
Also, if you mix up the moves a bit, you can hide the alliance for a few years at first.

not cheap just sucks for all the other players. is stopable and usually they turn on each other eventually anyways

The fact is that it isn't fair I've never seen a juggernaut were the sc's are even or turkey is on top. Russia get all the benefits and then Russia can kill turkey quickly

i've once seen turkey trump russia in a jugernaut. but it was only because russia became too trusting and didn;t put enough security in his balkan defense

Turkey needs to stab if he doesn't like second place.

Turkey almost always ends up the weaker partner in a Juggernaut, and that's one of the reasons I'm not so fond of PPSC... it's too hard to split Turkey and Russia when Turkey can be guaranteed a strong second-place finish.

Onar,

you find a juggernaut annoying? Imagine what I had to go through. *hint hint*

I'm not a fan of the Juggernaut as I've mentioned before because I think it always stands out as being far too obvious. However, to those who feel Turkey always gets the short straw: I wouldn't be so sure. The only danger comes if England works with Russia against Germany, because then R has enough free to turn on you. Conversely, if FI are locked in battle Turkey can easily head up north through his undefended "ally"

I don´t agree that the juggernaut only favours Russia. Turkey have room to expand really fast and unless if faces an agressive Italy, it will be a force to be considered on the middle/end game. Russia expansion scares a lot more the other powers then Turkey, and also, only A/I can do something against Turkey in the beginning and normally they don´t trust each other enough to do in on time.

I agree with those mentioning that Turkey that doesn't stab Russia can only finish second best in a game with a juggernaut.

yep hellalt knows

Here's a juggernaught that worked rather well, because of a couple of things:

1 - Italy attacked Austria early, to a devastating 2 SCs in Autumn 1901.
2 - After that, Austria was very manageable by R & T, until he became expendable.
3 - England put up a great defense, so R wasn't able to grow so quickly in Scandinavia.

Since it was the last League game, it ended in a four way draw, because R, T and E got promoted with those results, and France was doomed for demotion no matter what.

If it hadn't been the case, I think both R & T had the same chance at the solo, probably with a little advantage to T.

I was playing R as a sitter for gryncat. TGM was T, cgwhite32 was E, destp was I, Feanor was G, Darwyn was A and abgematch was F.

gameID=12306

Any Italy worth his salt should be able to flip Turkey before he goes under 4 centres.

How is any alliance "cheap"?

Juggernauts are stoppable by all kinds of alliances. Last time I tried one, EG was enough, even at a 19-15 sc disadvantage.

Yeah, one front makes it easy. The well-known-ness of the danger of the juggernaut makes it a lot less dangerous, though.