the significant number who are abusing the system have brought down the rest as well,like i either the mps who have abused the system lose their seats (if they are apologising they are guilty) otherwise publish everything and call a general election

Na, stick with it cg! If as you say your MP is clean, then good on him and lets keep going. I am one of the many who feels all the information should be disclosed as soon as possible through the correct channels, any breaches of the rules repaid (anything within the rules shouldn't be punished) and a general election held. We're due one soon anyway, so why not clear this up at the same time.
Wouldn't be anything to do with the possibility of a labour defeat would it...

I also think you should stick with it cgwhite, we need good honourable people more than ever right now. :)

Just going back to the national minimum wage for a second, if the tories plan to retain it why don't they shout it from the roof tops? The only thing that I could find on your policy website that could even refer to the NMQ was...

'Reducing the burden of regulation to give businesses more freedom and greater flexibility
Simplifying employment law to make it easier to hire people'

My guess is these policies and credit crumch will be used to jusitify abolishing NMW after the election.

Thanks chaps. I feel a bit better this morning, but still terribly angry.

Maniac, I've just checked our policy and lines to take. The standard line is this "Conservatives support the minimum wage and believe that it makes an important contribution to social justice in modern Britain."

However... the leadership is giving itself wiggle room by stating this, "We do, of course, believe that the National Minimum Wage should be reviewed in the context of the severe economic circumstances the country is currently experiencing."

From what I can work out, and talking to people in the know, there is a slim chance if there is deflation then the Minimum wage may be reviewed slightly downwards, but it would not be abolished. Essentially, the leadership doesn't like locking itself in to policies this far from an election, so I wouldnt' get overly concerned.

thanks, I'll reserve being overly concerned until later.

Good display by your guy today. It's been a very bizarre day, I actually find myself agreeing with Lord Tebbit!

Kestas, how do you vote in both?

I'm not asking how you are allowed - you mentioned dual citizenship.

I mean, how do you submit your vote when the election comes? Absentee ballot? Go to the UK? Pay someone to turn in your ballot for you?

Wait, that last one is probably illegal; scratch it.

Absentee ballot of some description.

@ Kestas: I thought you were only allowed to vote if you were resident in the UK, with some exceptions (e.g. Armed Forces, Ambassadorial staff, etc), as you have to be on the Electoral Roll. So how exactly do you get to vote in both?

I'm pretty sure that expats get a vote, so I don't doubt that Kestas can vote.

Maniac - yes, a good display from DC, but it was needed desperately. No-one else seems to be taking a lead, and I was glad to see that every Tory MP will be forced to repay, that they will only be allowed to claim for mortgage, rent and council/utility bills, and there will be a scruitiny panel to judge this (I know more than I'm letting on here, which I may be able to reveal later).

Dave: The rules are here: http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/british_citizens_living_abroad.aspx

I'll have to jump through a couple of hoops, but I'll be able to vote

How does your constituency work then? Where you last lived in the UK?

Dave, expats can definitely vote, most countries allow for it. Italy even has Senators specifically reserved for overseas voters to give them their own constituency.

Friend of mine (well, friend of a friend that I've met a few times) was chair of the UK&EU Obama campaign, contacting US expats to make sure they registered and voted.

Ghost, last I looked (ten years ago, might've changed), you could chose where you voted. The Tories used to be notorious for getting expats to register in marginals, sometimes that they had no links to at all, because expats, tending to being wealthier, also tend to vote Tory. I suspect that's been changed but don't know.

CG, nice contributions, and I today share your pain; I used to work in Westminster (briefly) for the Lib Dems, and I'm still involved in my local party (chair of my branch).

The observation made by someone up thread about marginal/safe seats is very true, I now live in a three-way marginal where the sitting (Labour) MP is standing down, so every vote here does count. But I come from a seat where you could put up a monkey in a suit with a blue rosette and it'd come in.

I'm actually in the middle of researching/writing an article about turnout and safe seats--this "apathy" meme going around is a myth without actual substantiation, in safe seats the parties don't campaign and the voters don't vote, in contested seats the parties campaign and the voters do vote.

To the Australian who asked why the Lib Dems don't do well? 25% of the vote last May in the local elections, 20% plus in the most recent few General Elections. Remember that you have a preferential voting system, in the UK you have to guess at the best place to put your X, and because most people think the Lib Dems can't win, they won't vote for them. Self perpetuating circle unfortunately.

FWIW, when I lived in Exeter I voted Labour to keep the (then) bastard Tory candidate out (CG may know the name Adrian Rogers, he got expelled for being a bit too extreme). Now, if I lived in a Tory/Labour marginal, despite my party membership, I'd probably vote Tory, 12 years of broken promises on essential reforms have really pissed me off.

I don't think the Tories would be much better than Labour, but they'd be different, and the current lot need to be kicked out and replaced--I just hope that Dave doesn't win a super majority (unlikely given the psephology), and that we get a change to the way we count votes at some point soon, that's the best chance we have.

FWIW, on the Facebook PHPdip app, one of my 'friends' on there with the app installed is a Lib Dem MP, she played (and convincingly won) one game on there, which is cool. She was also one of the MPs leading the charge on the whole freedom of information stuff on expenses--MOST MPs aren't corrupt and haven't been fiddling, that's especially true of the Lib Dems, although even they're not squeeky clean (although nowhere near as bad as some, the worst has, shock horror, let his daughter live in his spare room)

Thank you, cgwhite, Kestas and Mat! Having given it a little thought, I think it's more than fair to allow expats the right to vote, given that somewhere along the line, if they're a British Citizen, they'll need to be represented by somebody British! I only add this because my first thought was, 'why get a vote when you don't live [and therefore possible don't ever come] here...?'

On a lighter note, I once very easily persuaded a friend of mine to vote Tory, when I was in Exeter (where an annoying amount of the student population wanted to vote Lib Dem, and it is of course a reasonably strong Labour seat right now), as she asked me which Party wanted to keep the Pound. I told her the Tories, and she went and voted for them! It was nice to have two votes to myself... sadly I later learned that in the next election she voted Lib Dem!

Ah, see, now, looking on the ground, I'd say Lib Dems have a better chance in Exeter than the Tories, although Bradshaw will remain strong. They run the council (they've more than doubled their Cllrs since I lived there) and there're also a number of old Liberal Cllrs, their votes will likely go Lib Dem in a GE if they think there's a chance of winning. Of course, when I lived there the Tories had the strongest campus contingent and there were barely any Lib Dems, I'm told the Exeter LDYS group I helped set up went on to be the largest in the country for a bit ;-)

3 way marginals are always hard to predict though, could go in any direction.

On the overseas vote thing--you need to have someone to speak up for your rights in wherever you live. If you live abroad as an expat Brit, the foreign office still represents you. Specifically, if you live in the EU, you can vote in local and EU elections there, but not in national elections, the law is worded to assume you'll vote as an overseas voter in your home country.

It gets even more complex if you live in Ireland or you're Irish living here, and there are some daft other things as well.

Oh yes, the Lib Dems are definitely more likely to do well in Exeter than the Tories - I just would never vote Lib Dem! I think Exeter is the only constituency in Devon and Cornwall (and maybe Somerset as well) that isn't currently painted yellow. I do think Bradshaw is relatively popular there though - although I doubt that many of the students in Exeter will vote Labour, judging by the socio-economic status of the majority (unless it's changed in the year since I graduated!).

It hasn't changed. I have yet to meet someone who would vote Labour, and not many who would vote Lib Dem. But then I am a member of CF, so that would make sense.

most students i know will vote lib dems

"if voting changed anything, it would be illegal"

How deliciously specious.

@Hereward: CF? What's CF?

I live in a Labour safe seat. I will be voting, but don't expect it to affect the result. It's a shame we don't have a "none of the above" option. At the moment if you want to turn out to vote - to prove you do want to take part but just don't support any of the available options - you either have to vote for one of the candidates, or you can "spoil" your ballot paper - ie by marking it incorrectly. Some people do this deliberately in an attempt to register a "none of the above" vote, but the problem is that it is impossible to distinguish between 'spoilt' papers which were spoilt due to the voter making a mistake, and 'spoilt' papers which were deliberately spoiled.

Conservative Future. Youth/student organisation for young Conservatives.

for those bitching (on a seperate thread) that quote was emma goldman.

as if it matters.
a good (or bad) idea is a good idea no matter who says it

Hereward, I have got your email, I've just been rather busy, so I'll respond over the weekend.

By the way, you might be interested in this. It is a start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bIZLfdEbkc