you'r not sentient either yoyoyozo, you think you are cos you'r programmed to believe that

Wow...is this where this conversation is headed? Fuck this, I'm out.

Droids are machines and have no more rights than an alarm clock

If they pass the Turing Test...

We will know the point when droids become sentient for they will immediately annihilate the human species.

No, wait there are non-canon stories of droid revolts.

C3PO says "We seem to be made to suffer, it's our lot in life."

That alone, coupled with the apparent torture of droids at the hands of Jabba in episode 6, make it seem that droids have feelings to a degree and can suffer. If that is so, then shouldn't we be sensitive to their plight?

@ yoyoyozo

Two things make me think that they are sentient (although we would have to establish a criteria for determining that, the Turing Test might provide a springboard for that, but Something makes me think that incredibly complex programming may fool us on that one).

In Star Trek TNG's "The Measure of a Man", they establish three criteria for sentience.

1) Intelligent
2) Self-Awareness
3) Consciousness

I hate the last one because we can't really prove our own sentience if it is a necessary criteria.

Can we even prove intelligence?

Prove? I don't know, but measure? Yes.

There's even some question about our methods for measuring intelligence. Intelligence isn't one dimensional, like length or width.

I guess my hiccough with consciousness is that it is not well defined. A socio-path doesn't "feel" remorse in the same way that others do. Is that where we are going with conscious. Aware of bigger morals issues?

@Deinodon

Yes. there are issues with how to measure intelligence. Most people recognize that beings have varying degrees of it though. Therefore it should on some level, I would posit, be measurable. I'd have no problem with C3Po being seen as intelligent. He's fluent in over a (I forget the exact number) forms of communication. To a degree he has to be able to process not only the denotation but also the connotations and nuances of one language and be able to translate it accurately into any number of other ones. He's no google translate; he does the job very well.

3PO also shows remorse "Curse my metal body they're dying Artoo!"

and charity (out of apparent affection)

"Sir, If any of my circuits or gears would help; I'd gladly donate them."

He never bothers speaking Wookie though. Rather rude of him, I thought

He is condescending toward Chewie in other ways too. Did somebody program him to be racist or was that his own personality?

cogito ergo ervo sum

Oddly enough they are the two most skill full characters in the original Star Wars RPG. C3PO in communications and Chewy in engineering.

Chewie, on the other hand, seemed very concerned about 3po's welfare. Given that 3PO was trined in etiquette and protocol, perhaps he was skillfully teasing the Wookie and endearing himself to the big guy.

Is that what Leia was doing when she called him a walking carpet?

In 3po's case would that be cogito ergo servo sum :-)

Perhaps, she was quite the skilled diplomat herself. Regardless we don't see animosity toward either of them on Chewbacca's part.

Quite forgiving for somebody from a race known to tear people's arms out of their sockets when the lose a game.

We only have Solo's word for that, and he was a glorified drug dealer

That's true. He certainly seems capable of it though.

And 3PO can be a bit of a judgemental prick at times...

"I can abide those Jawas, disgusting creatures."

Before you go all "Hey they kidnapped him and sold him!"

He had already commented on how harsh the terrain was and then goes around insulting the resourcefulness of a race that has adapted to live out there.

So there are two questions:

Is it 3PO's personality flaw or a personality flaw built into his programming by a flawed programmer?


Does it really even matter since we can't deicde whether our flaws are our own or merely a result of the interaction between DNA and environment.

DROIDS ARE PEOPLE TOO!!!!!!!

just kidding, yes they are slaves, and... yes I'm fine with it.

Maybe that isn't OK, since I think I'm part of the "droids are sentient" party, but...

How about forget the droids for the moment. What does it do to the humans who own them? Does Luke Skywalker become a bit more like Thomas Jefferson? Great guy did a lot for us, but still a slave owner.

Does Han solo become a little more calloused and cruel?

Does Jabba become more monstrous?

Well he was pretty montrous to begin with, so scratch that ... but are there really any good guys?

No, because 3PO and R2 seem to serve Luke out of love.
Han though... I mean, he is a pirate...

Then why not set them free and see if its true? C3PO always calls him "Master Luke" none of the other characters do that but they stick around and brave the dangers of the Rebellion against the Empire.

Even Han as a pirate wouldn't volunteer Chewbacca for the mission to Endor. "It's going to be dangerous buddy. I didn't want to speak for you." But nobody asked the droids. They were conscripted without a thought the same way that the blasters, lightsaber, and ships were.

#DroidLivesMatter

Koonyah mahlyass koong! Ees too rong tah oong jedi mind trick!

(I think that roughly translates to 'wtf')

Another question. Do you invite a robot apocalyse by giving them autonomy or by denying it? Or is it pretty much inevitable regardless of what we do?

lol, I thought Bantha poo-doo was the rough equivalent of wtf?

No, Bantha poo-doo translates to Bull Shit.

@crazy Anglican
Right. I'm saying they are complete slaves, and no one gives a care. Though I suppose you can cut them some slack by saying that Droids can be fixed or reused, whereas humans and other "life forms" die much easier and can't be "fixed"

I actually just wrote a paper about how the Turing Test fails to accurately measure intelligence.

@HoM

"Droids can be fixed or reused, whereas humans and other "life forms" die much easier and can't be 'fixed'"

Which would either be a reason to keep them absolutely beaten down (a remote control kill switch or the like) or make them happy and valued members of society.

@ Deinodon

Touche'

The Turing Test isn't meant to measure intelligence. The Turing Test detects if a computer is distinguishable from a human. If a computer and a human are indistinguishable, then does it really matter how you define things like intelligence, sentience, etc?

Sort of... The test determines whether a computer can mimic the typing ability of a human. Now, my aforementioned alarm clock is utterly unable to type, which makes it completely indistinguishable from my Gran. Thus it passes the test.

Bit of a crap test, really.

Doesn't that in fact mean that your grandmother would fail the Turing test, Octavious?