I just have one rule for myself...cover your ass. No matter how closely you are allied always have a backup plan if he suddenly decides to put units in your territory.

Tactical and diplomatic excellence combined. Deception and trust building are aspects of being a good talker. Stabs are part of tactical excellence.

i agree with General!

As I think about it, timing of a stab has to be considered. I have done it too early and I have been killed because it didn't.

@ vamosrammstein, you and I have a very similar record. Yet, we have never played together. I would love to play in a game with you.

Yes that is a good point...I once stabbed Germany (playing as England) and I think I took about four of his SCs in one go...the timing of the stab is absolutely crucial. Unless you can do serious damage (preferably wiping them out) it isn't a good idea to randomly stab.

Well I tend to die more than you do rhino, but sure, I'll play in a game with you:]

There are four skills:

Tactics: getting the best out of your units in a given turn or year.
Strategy: positioning your units and choosing enemies to give yourself the best position.
Diplomacy, gaining trust: Getting people to believe that you will do what you say, or indeed to not believe it (say "I won't move to Brest" to get France to move to Brest)
Diplomacy, convincing: Getting people to think that allying with you makes most sense.

All of these are, needless to say, vital.

I second Ghostie. Also, talk to everyone, including to the person that stabbed you; or that you stabbed. You're never out of a game until your last SC is in another's hands.

Also, if it become apparant that you are hard pressed to survive, try to gain/hold the most strategic territory possible. It should make you valuable to someone who has an interest in keeping it out of their enemies' hands.

I had a thread on stabs that covered some of these important skills, I think I'll find it and post the link here. I agree with all previous advice though.

Remember that there are no allies or enemies, just fellow players.

most of the time... hehehe. i've had some enemies before, big time.

one of the crucial passive skills for the game is certainly the ability to read your opponents and remember their behavior. in one game, I was stabbed once by a neighbor, but we quickly returned to detente after we realized we could be valuable allies. a turn later, another player stabbed me, repented, and then stabbed again.

so, realizing that the second player could never be trusted, i (having been stabbed three times, fairly weak on the board) organized a campaign to wipe out the double-stabber, even though it involved opening my SC's to the first stabber. the first stabber moved into my SC's, but in the fall he promised to move out of one of them because he again recognized my potential as an ally against the second stabber.

although i got butchered, i think i managed it as well as possible to turn the game in the favor of someone who was not a liar.

corollary: lying makes people hate you. simply stabbing does not.

@bdaniels: I'm a little confused by your corollary. A stabbing is essentially the other player lying. What you suggest is that one stab and then repentance is fine, but, two stabs (or more) is not. Is that what you imply? I may be a little confused.

I wouldn't say I hate anyone in this game. There are interesting characters and others who ruin the game by randomly leaving in the middle of it, but, by and large the players are all nice people. If I repeatedly get stabbed by someone I don't hold it against them. Lying and stabbing is part of the game, I have done it to others and so I expect it on myself.

In my last game I was Russia, I got attacked by England, Germany, Austria and Turkey, even though they had all said they would help me. I basically got butchered in a couple of turns, but, it didn't mean I hated any of the players for it.

In fact I recall the scenario you have just mentioned to me happen in a game I played. I was playing as France and stabbed Germany. After stabbing I suggested we keep the alliance, he agreed and I stabbed him again. I think I kept it up for about 2-3 turns until I had all his SCs.

Moral: trust no-one in diplomacy

Actually, I live by the adage "Trust everyone to do what is best for them."

They key is to make them *think* what is best for them is actually what is best for you.

But always remember what is best for LanG is best for everyone who thinks it's best for the best of LanG.

I have noticed a trait in every good player; they make you want to believe them. And whether you believe them or not they'll still win anyways.

I think that reading people and knowing what they plan, or at least, getting the general idea is the most important skill.

When you stab go all the way in, never pull out till you are done and let them deal with the mess after your done. I'm often too nice and make a mess on my self.

does anyone research the other players?? or am i just crazy.

@ZaZa- i've been on the wrong end of that one a couple times :) i feel that when you get stabbed and the person who stabbed you convinces you that they will stop or will pull back, and you take that bait, and then they crush you. they are either a hell of a good diplomat, or a very good lier. though those are on in the same

remaining calm in the face of adversity is an underrated, but extremely important trait.

But occasionally it is wise to pull back from the stab and work with your victim, especially if he got hit hard by the enemy the same turn and his downfall will cause you to be on the firing line. Then a once great nation reduced to 3 or 4 SCs can come in handy.

Of course, one trait is to never play more games than you can keep up with. That has kicked my butt a couple of times. Also, I try to play different strategies when playing the same country. I was playing a well know player on this forum and noticed that they had played Italy about a dozen times. They played one of two strategies every time. So when I (as Austria) was asked to make a certain move I knew I was being set up. Yes, I research my competitors. I especially look for multi's so I can out them.

Definitely. It can be very easy to join lots of games when you're in a simple time, but when the games get more complex suddenly it can really start to build up.
The other thing is just because its going well at a point doesn't mean you can stop worrying about it!

I never stop worrying. Hell, I'm losing my hair worrying over being tall poppy in one of my games right now.

"Of course, one trait is to never play more games than you can keep up with. That has kicked my butt a couple of times. Also, I try to play different strategies when playing the same country. I was playing a well know player on this forum and noticed that they had played Italy about a dozen times. They played one of two strategies every time. So when I (as Austria) was asked to make a certain move I knew I was being set up. Yes, I research my competitors. I especially look for multi's so I can out them."

Also, the more time you put into Diplomacy the better results you'll get.

if you don't worry there is something wrong with you. i am paranoid as hell

Wow, from what you've all said I think I might go and do some research on myself, check I'm not too predictable!

I admit I have never once researched another person for historical tendencies. Like figs though, I'd be curious to find out if I'm predictable based upon my history. If I am, then it's only because my neighbors are good at convincing me to do the same damn thing over and over again:P

Otto, I don't even trust my own wife and kids anymore. I swear the older ones are trying to support each other into taking over my truck.

haha

@LanG - they have already got your wife's support and are surrounding the drivers door as we speak. It's the of them on an empty truck because you are here. I'm afraid you've already lost it.

It's *three of them...

Otto, I don't even trust my own wife and kids anymore. I swear the older ones are trying to support each other into taking over my truck.

You are hilarious! And yes, they told me they were conspiring to get the truck :-)

Know what is going to happen.

I find that if you put a little effort into it, especially in the early game, you should probably know every move that is going to be made. Not just in your area, every move. If you don't, then maybe the moves are going to be against you. Later, knowing moves becomes even more important, because it allows you to stab with the utmost effectiveness, missing planned bounces and catching people out of position.

Also, I find in higher level play I fight my allies as much as my enemies. Jossling for position, but still talking in concert. I took Rumania from you because me not having it is detrimental to the long term prospects of our alliance, etc etc. You can't take these things personally.

As far as research goes, some guys swear by it. I have only ever used it to point out to a third party a tendency as a reason to ally with me.

With proper diplomacy and reads, you should never be in the first two eliminated at least. If you are in the first two, you have almost certainly done something terribly wrong. Not getting killed should come quite easily after you have the diplomacy down. Winning is of course much more difficult.

Tactics imo are of little importance, because almost anyone can get a good grasp on them, and sometimes the best move is the one they are expecting.

If I was gonna say one thing, I would have said what Draugnar said:
"Trust everyone to do what is best for them"
This works pretty well in general.