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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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brainbomb (290 D)
06 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
There will be no indictment
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_581f8ff5e4b0aac62485196a
Let that sink in. Checkmate
133 replies
Open
Hannibal76 (100 D(B))
09 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
To Americans
Learn from this mistake. When given a chance to elect someone like Bernie again, do it. Don't go for the person that's a part of the establishment. It could've been Bernie getting ready for his victory speech now. You threw that chance away when you LET the establishment decide Bernie wouldn't win. Learn from this mistake so that you don't make it again. Better luck next time.
19 replies
Open
KingCyrus (511 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Election Central
Post political predictions, petitions, and prayers here and only here for the next 48 hours.
490 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
08 Nov 16 UTC
(+6)
ADVERTISE YOUR VICTORY PARTIES HERE
Advertise your victory parties here and only here.
7 replies
Open
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
TrPrado Victory Party
That's right, we're looking ahead to 2048, when I've won that presidential election.
7 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
08 Nov 16 UTC
(+4)
Philadelphia Eagles Victory Party
Error: 404 - wins not found
5 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
04 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
I'm at Carnage!
53 replies
Open
JECE (1248 D)
05 Nov 16 UTC
RIP phpDiplomacy
It looks like phpdiplomay.net stopped working recently.

Have we forever lost our old URL?
7 replies
Open
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
(+4)
Bernie Sanders Victory Party
POTUS bros. He can still win this!
1 reply
Open
sleepsinallday (130 D)
05 Nov 16 UTC
Polarization Self-Assessment Thread
Politics has changed A LOT in the past ten years ago. In this thread, I'd like to encourage you all to think about your past political views and how greatly you've polarized over time. What issues do you care about today vs then? Why? Any original ideas or do you rely on the media for cues? Interested to hear some real self-assessment here! :)
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TrPrado (461 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
This is the shit that gets posted when I don't have time for the forum?
sleepsinallday (130 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
Okay, time to clarify!

" I'm having trouble following this claim. What are you referring to by "social capital" and "political capital" here? I have a general understanding of both terms but apparently not enough to understand what you're saying here. "

So absolutely, libertarians interacting with each other online, in person, via institutions all exist as examples of ways in which libertarians can gain/generate "social" capital. And any libertarians sharing ideas and resources to promote their political philosophy is worth respecting to the same extent any other people might. "Political" capital, on the other hand, I use to pertain directly to political interactions where individuals have opportunities to engage in power exchanges (usually, through government). Obviously, in our lives, we blur the lines between the social and the political and we often ignore the ramifications of doing so.

But think about it for a second...when has a libertarian ever generated political capital? How would that even work? Yes, libertarians do see government as corrupt and clearly should not be held to the same heuristics as other social movements, but seriously in what world can you conceive of a government of libertarians guided by libertarian principles? And don't try to use the founding fathers as an example; their constructed ideologies are too far removed from any form of modern (or, conceptually, post-modern) government. (Plus, if you accept Hannah Arendt's argument that contemporary politics are fundamentally hinged to our blurring of the social and political realms, it's difficult to conceive of any manifestation of libertarianism pre-cold war.) And yet, the American libertarian movement is incredibly politically oriented: what better way to kill the beast than from within? It is my personal belief that the libertarian movement has suffered from its inability to argue a cohesive strategy for changing our government, even if it has changed our governing.

Think of it this way, there are political mechanisms like gerrymandering, campaign contributions, parliamentary procedure, etc. that serve as sources of corruption no matter what regime controls our government. These mechanisms should be the target of attempts to reform our government without reforming the way we govern. Instead, libertarians see their momentum rise through social movementism, largely unable to gather sufficient political capital to see their social capital realized into political changes (by government or by governing). Now, I'm assuming something that may not be true, but I wouldn't imagine that the majority of libertarians, no matter how devout, would like to see the total abolition of government. Whether that's possible or even desirable is a conversation for another time. When I think of the contemporary libertarian, I think I see an individual who is fed up with the corruption of politics, but undoubtedly cannot rationalize a world where the political is necessarily replaced by the social: doing so would mean solving problems where Marx and his critics have been unable.

Thus, the dilemma of the libertarian is in the generation of political capital. To effect change, some political gains must be made. To make political gains, a constituency must first be rallied, a party formed, a reform suggested and battled over and at last, institutionalized. Sadly, these efforts run antithetical to the beliefs that would be held by such a constituency. And yet, the American libertarian movement is incredibly politically oriented. Why? Where are the libertarians occupying seats of prestigious committees? Where are the libertarian judicial appointments? Where are the libertarian bureaucrats?

The libertarians that do occupy elected office may do so, individually, out of great concern and dedication to their constituents. But these members, institutionally, offer no coherent strategy to effect change in our government or in the ways we govern. Thus, they are consumers of political capital, but not generators. Through the course of this year, the Republican-Democrat split may actually lead to a change in the way our Supreme Court operates. Not all interactions have to be so tremendous as this in order to generate political capital, but it's a clear example of how political capital can be generated through mere discourse over (visible) inaction. And god, isn't that the kind of thing libertarians hate the most about our country? You see the dilemma now don't you?

" i just shot myself in my head, b/c you ACTUALLY proposed AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION: to stop DISAGREEMENT. The 1930s called, they want their fascism back. if you mean Gridlock, or inefficiency: AMENDMENTS ARE STILL OVERKILL - but i can agree to that. for god's sake, if you ACTUALLY mean polarization, you need to be on some kind of watchlist boy
"Maybe when we break down altogether, we can build a new functioning government."

what. so now you WANT to break down??? you JUST SAID "I would rather reform the state than let it whither" WHITHER of course being a word that means nothing but vague talks about gov't cuts (SO SCARY OMGoodness). And build a NEW FUNCTIONING GOV'T "

Okay let's talk about the difference between what I said and what you think I said. When I said "we need to mitigate the effects of polarization somehow," I meant it. Polarization is not the problem that we're suffering from, we're suffering from a host of issues from growing diversity, global economic pressure, and a declining birthrate, all of which funnel into a bigger pot of even harder to pin down socio-economic adjustments. So when I say that we need to "mitigate" the "effects" of "polarization," I'm saying that we should accept that both our elites and our voters are largely polarized on their political agendas. Polarization is the result of changes in how we govern and of changes in the media. And since most people would have a problem if we (the government) changed the media, I don't think it's reasonable to assume we can end polarization merely by changing how we govern. Instead, I believe it would be far more productive to change the structure of our government itself in order to skirt the dangers we face by continuing as is (notably gridlock, voter dissatisfaction, and increased socio-economic tensions).

But I believe that America is a reactionary society. Yes, things must break down before we try something new. We are too large and diverse a society to agree on any solution until the answer becomes obvious: experiment with our beloved constitution or witness its demise. Austerity will never be a final solution to our problems, it can only accelerate us towards dysfunction (I would love to argue about this point another time perhaps :) ).

So what amendments might I propose? Well, first, I'd like to point out that these would each require amendments or some serious legal workaround by a popular and powerful presidents. Generally, the amendment system is more legitimate, and ultimately more reliable as it affords us more time to discuss its full meaning through judiciary action.

1. A national referendum is a necessary and inevitable feature of American governance. With our democratic deficit rising, we suffer from partisan deadlock, while relying on presidents to set a national agenda. As presidents see themselves increasingly constrained by international agreements and domestic tensions rising, we need to find a way to circumvent Congress when it ceases to function. Basically, I think we need to reorient our political dialogue to include "the people" as a check on each of our branches of government. A national referendum is a flexible policy that offers a lot of clear benefits. The specifics would have to be worked out to accommodate the needs of both parties, but to me, it's a no-brainer.

2. We need Congressional term limits yesterday. Unfortunately, I'm not so confident these will ever come around, but I will advocate for these until the day I die (or run for office :D). I get that it's comfortable for us to have familiar faces on the ballot, but career congressmen should not exist, period. The problem with getting this one off the ground is it really increases the accountability factor for each party. This kind of thing would radically change our political system, with plenty of unintended consequences, but I really think it would be in our (us voters) best interests.

3. End the political dynasties. This would largely be symbolic, but I really worry we are asking for trouble. Bush 2 was a disaster, he had no fucking business being elected president. On the other hand, Clinton 2 has every more right to the office than almost any other contemporary politician, yet I get the feeling we are in for one wild ride these next four years. I mean, just ask India- democratic political dynasties are one of those weird things that seem inevitable, yet characteristically undemocratic. I could go on, but I'm really offering this more as a prediction than a personal cause.

(Not an amendment) 4. Neighborhoods are the new drinking fountains. White flight is one of the leading causes of racial tensions in the United States. Schools are segregated again and racial disparities are being exposed as poverty threatens uneducated whites.
Here's my city, Richmond, VA:
https://coopercenterdemographics.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/richmond-dot-density-population-map-20101.jpg

The sad thing is that Richmond has already seen desegregation once in the past 60 years. More than half of our public schools are not fully accredited, wanna guess where they're located on that map? Most northern cities (and I do mean most) were segregated in the 50's and never bothered to desegregate! This has tremendous effects on allocation of resources towards schools, police departments, public administration...
This is one of the great challenges we need to solve over the next decade or so. It is an insurmountable challenge, already, given that we feel satisfied to say that we solved it three generations ago.

I criticize libertarians because of problems like 4. Sure, our government is corrupt, but it is the only thing we have that can even make an attempt at solving these crises of identity. The ideal libertarian world would allow for white flight and more; social movementism is insufficient for dealing with the ills of society.
ghug (5068 D(B))
07 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
I didn't realize obiwanobiwan was back.
Balrog (219 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
^+1
Durga (3609 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
On the topic of self-assessment, here is a good read:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/glenn-beck-tries-out-decency?mbid=social_facebook
Fluminator (1500 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
I'm a mix of libertarian and socialism.
Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
@TrPrado

Was it coincidence that your post came directly after mine, or should I take offense ;-)
JamesYanik (548 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
@sleepsinallday

"Now, I'm assuming something that may not be true, but I wouldn't imagine that the majority of libertarians, no matter how devout, would like to see the total abolition of government."

not true, except with the hardliners. i'll agree the hardliners are a bit crazy, but that's true on all parts of the spectrum.

"I criticize libertarians because of problems like 4. Sure, our government is corrupt, but it is the only thing we have that can even make an attempt at solving these crises of identity. The ideal libertarian world would allow for white flight and more; social movementism is insufficient for dealing with the ills of society."

The gov't serves a purpose, and for your number 4. most of the laws that prevent changes in housing and education, are ENACTED by gov't. Libertarians want to take that power away from the gov't. the idea of white flight: is RICH white people; they move to richer areas. richer bigger better houses. but... rich black people can move there too. what we need to prevent, are subsidized housing disasters, school districts lines, and the defending of education - a trait democrats and republicans partake in far too often.


now the big one:

"Okay let's talk about the difference between what I said and what you think I said. When I said "we need to mitigate the effects of polarization somehow," I meant it."

ok... continue

"Polarization is not the problem that we're suffering from, we're suffering from a host of issues from growing diversity, global economic pressure, and a declining birthrate, all of which funnel into a bigger pot of even harder to pin down socio-economic adjustments."

i'd argue with that declining birth rate being a disastrous problem, but that's a tedious point. however, i would say we ARE suffering from polarization.

"So when I say that we need to "mitigate" the "effects" of "polarization," I'm saying that we should accept that both our elites and our voters are largely polarized on their political agendas."

elites... yes? I'm not as in tune with elites, but there is a large faction of America that votes independant, and many democrats and republicans are close to center. this election PARTICULARLY has polarized people, but saying "largely polarized" I'd contend. nonetheless, I can understand you wanting a draw to the center, not outward. continue

"Polarization is the result of changes in how we govern and of changes in the media. And since most people would have a problem if we (the government) changed the media, I don't think it's reasonable to assume we can end polarization merely by changing how we govern."

mhm. de ja vu say WHAT? we HAVE changed the media. the media is 100x more polarized than the people. there haven't been any LAWS passed, but how about the DNC getting verbatim questions and FEEDING them to Hillary in the primaries? Breitbart's occult love of Trump? It's near-impossible to find non-polarized media. the problem is,

Instead, I believe it would be far more productive to change the structure of our government itself in order to skirt the dangers we face by continuing as is (notably gridlock, voter dissatisfaction, and increased socio-economic tensions)."

ok... let's take these one by one.
- Gridlock:
disagreement. how do you change this? grafting compromises. you give up a certain thing you want, to get something else. For this we need the right people in gov't. Bill for all of his failures did this VERY well. changing government structure to depose gridlock? I'm not even sure where to begin with that

- voter dissatisfaction
once again: we need better candidates. how can you change the law, to disqualify candidates? (not referring to congressional term limits). the reason why we have bad candidates, is b/c the people voted for them in the primaries. Clinton kinda cheated Bernie though, so yeah, we could have stricter campaign laws AND punishments - see Libertarians!

- increased socioeconomic tensions
change GOV'T to levy these? socioeconomic tensions can be solved to some degree, but on a federal level: I've yet to see reform that doesn't strip away people's rights in the process. States are the ones that are able to directly change specific laws.



where I disagree with Libertarians - and i think we would begin to agree: is that the industries themselves need oversight. real estate and housing is a big one, but much of the racism, STEMS from state laws. also a disagreement with libertarians, is the extent of checks and balances as created by governments
sleepsinallday (130 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
I feel like you're just trying to argue with me...
On many of your points, we agree. I think I basically killed this thread anyway, but I do appreciate your input! Maybe this will clarify a few things:

1. "I wouldn't imagine that the majority of libertarians, no matter how devout, would like to see the total abolition of government" - pay attention to the "wouldn't" before you jump to conclusions about what I'm saying
2. "the idea of white flight: is RICH white people" - Not even close to true. The wealthy started the trend, but people are just fucking racist. Ever heard of "redlining"? Changes in housing are largely driven by government inaction on unfair, racially motivated lending practices.
3. "we HAVE changed the media" - Oh my god please just read my words instead of jumping to arguing points. I said that people would have a problem if the government directly interfered in media activities. Partisanship in the media is a much different issue than government involvement in the media (just ask China).

"in order to skirt the dangers we face by continuing as is"

Again, read my actual words. I'm saying that we need to avoid the dangers which these problems (which are amplified by polarization) pose. Solving these problems would mean changing the order of our society altogether, which is not what I'm arguing.

Anyway, I'm sorry if my comments were confusing or poorly worded! I appreciate your input, and I do agree that libertarianism, while not a viable political strategy, does offer some noteworthy criticisms that need to be addressed. My problem is that we need to be proactive in doing so!
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Nov 16 UTC
Apologies if i'm jumping in without reasong the whole conversation.

It seems clear to me that libertarianism is a huge hand over of power from the state to private corporations. Which reaults in a move from 'one person, one vote' to 'one dollar, one vote'.

And while open to a great amount of abuse, at least universal basic income helps equalise the number of dollars each indvidual has - thus retaining some amount of fairness.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Nov 16 UTC
@" It is my personal belief that the libertarian movement has suffered from its inability to argue a cohesive strategy for changing our government, even if it has changed our governing."

It is my personal belief that the corporate powers don't want to do away with government, and thus a pushing libertarianism in order to reduce regulations and free themselves from government control/over-sight. But a huge number rely upon government contracts, and the ability of the state to raise taxes in order to pay for said contracts.

I guess you can look at the state as a customer, one which weilds many dollars (due to it's monopoly on violence) and thus much influence over what corporations do. Currently the corporate and state sectors are two deeply entwined for Libertarianism to really take hold within the corporate elites.
JamesYanik (548 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
@sleepsinallday

i wouldn't be surprised if i misread a lot of what you wrote, i completely missed the "wouldn't" in particular. anyways, back to watching Ogion vs ND: CAGE MATCH
sleepsinallday (130 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
Well, I wouldn't say that libertarianism necessarily results in "a huge hand over of power from the state to private corporations." But time after time, yeah that's what ends up happening when you push for a libertarian agenda in the US. For example, Virginia suffers from extreme income inequality; we have the 6th highest per capita income in the nation, but suffer poverty rates near or above 70% in some areas. But we're still caught between the Red and Blue divide and our welfare and aid programs are scarce and hard-fought. Christians do a great job at filling in the cracks. Ground level movement allows religious organizations to fulfill, through charity, what our state government cannot due to extreme partisanship. To me, this is libertarianism at its finest. I have my own problems with religious institutions, but through entirely non-corporate and non-political means, some people are making a difference in my home state. The majority of them, ironically, believe that the government should be doing more to help people. To me, I see libertarians as operating best when they keep clear of the political.

We tend to focus the conversation on business vs. government, when really that doesn't capture the whole story. You're absolutely right, corporate powers don't want to do away with government, the corporate-state relationship is more often win-win than one-sided.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Nov 16 UTC
You make me think, i wonder if there is actually a right-wing religious libertarian church which specifically wants an increase in income inequality in order to force people to need charity, into their hands, in an effort to expand their influence and morality policing, maybe even push for restrictive social laws while pushing to remove economic restrictions...
JamesYanik (548 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
@orathaic

OY. CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE MY THING.

and that's called Opus Dei dipshit.


75 replies
dr. octagonapus (210 D)
28 Oct 16 UTC
(+1)
Im bored, and I havn't played in ages 2.0
I'd like to set up a round of games to stretch some old diplomacy muscles.
not fussed about pot size but im looking to start a round of games with 6 others.
Games will be 24-36 hours, gunboat, SoS, hidden draws
19 replies
Open
LordPulpo (165 D)
08 Nov 16 UTC
Game starting without a full roster?
If a game hasn't been filled with players by the time it is scheduled to start, what happens? Does the game terminate or start anyway?
2 replies
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Nov 16 UTC
Best line of today.
... See inside
22 replies
Open
Duhbill (105 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
Live Game Discussion
Why is it that all (or most rather) live games are gunboat these days? I miss playing a fast game where people actually communicate and work together like how most of the games on here are played. Any idea why? D:
8 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
05 Nov 16 UTC
Come Make Diplomacy Great Again with me!
gameID=185056

Competitive buy-in, sum of squares scoring cuz we play to WIN and win BIGLY here. Identities and draw votes public, no private positions allowed here. All are welcome if you can nimbly navigate the points wall. Make great deals, have fun, WIN, make Diplomacy great again!!
11 replies
Open
captainmeme (1723 DMod)
07 Nov 16 UTC
New High Quality Game
I made this incredibly high quality game with high quality settings for high quality players, but none of them want to join for some reason.

So the password is fuckghug, go ahead and join if you want to: gameID=185256
24 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (65 D)
07 Nov 16 UTC
PJ Gunboat (the return - yet again) Results and Discussion
So 3 of the games are already finished. Someone wanted me to dig up the original thread but it's locked. Long live the thread.
1 reply
Open
Red-Lion (382 D)
05 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Post here if you're a member of
the triple digit, mile-high RR club! 100% Reliability rating here!

Just noticed that blackmongoose was also checking in at 100%. Good man!
33 replies
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Fluminator (1500 D)
02 Nov 16 UTC
(+2)
Post in this thread and positivity
Lately I feel I've been too cynical and negative so I need to change that.
Post something, a person or thing and I'll find something positive about it.
55 replies
Open
Magnus Chase (94 DX)
06 Nov 16 UTC
Sorry Moderators
I have to go because I didn't plan my timing well:
Sorry for interrupting the live game and going CD:
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=185188
Good luck to all still playing.
4 replies
Open
ND (879 D)
05 Nov 16 UTC
Democratic Elector refuses to back Clinton
A Democratic Elector in the Electoral College refuses to vote for Clinton. This means that Clinton now needs 271 electoral votes to win!
http://www.ksla.com/story/33631175/the-latest-wa-democratic-elector-wont-vote-for-clinton
86 replies
Open
stranger (525 D)
05 Nov 16 UTC
players wanted for a good old game of dip
Hello y'all I'd like to play a good game, wasn't really active on this site for a few years now but I played the game f2f a few times this summer and would love to get into the online variant of it a bit more again.

Anyone keen?
8 replies
Open
Pompeii (638 D)
06 Nov 16 UTC
Crimes Against Borders
gameID=182808 looking back at this old game and just noticing how absolutely atrocious the borders were at several points during the game. Any of you have any games where the border gore makes you cringe?
0 replies
Open
Durga (3609 D)
06 Nov 16 UTC
Social media is hard
Look at this cool new page that I'm sure the mod team just simply forgot to promote!! I'm sure they'd tell you to go like it if they remembered:

https://www.facebook.com/WebDiplomacy-615134375314283/
5 replies
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JamesYanik (548 D)
06 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Question about site mechanics
if you mute somebody, and they create a thread, do you still see the thread, or do you have to mute that in-turn too?

just a quick question - nothing big. or polarizing. post answer inside along with non-polarizing details
5 replies
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
02 Nov 16 UTC
Can't tell if this is right or left wing...
Universal basic income championed by the right in Canada?

Am i correct in assuming that this seems odd?
83 replies
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orathaic (1009 D(B))
05 Nov 16 UTC
(+1)
Inner city violence
Reddit AMA about reducing violence: https://m.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5b35qu/science_ama_series_im_charlie_ransford_director/
Any thoughts?
0 replies
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brainbomb (290 D)
02 Nov 16 UTC
(+3)
Vote Arbys - we have the meats
.
11 replies
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Ezio (2181 D)
03 Nov 16 UTC
Viable Strategies for Austria
Whenever I play Austria I feel like I'm strategically forced to attack Turkey. I think that if Turkey isn't killed in the early game, he is basically forced based to go through Austria if he wants to reach the rest of the world. I know that this can't be the case, but I don't see the other strategies.
I would love to learn of some other options for Austria so I don't do the same thing every time I get it.
19 replies
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brainbomb (290 D)
03 Nov 16 UTC
Takes bow
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=184989&msgCountryID=0
17 replies
Open
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