Yes, ha ha, how do you know I'm doing anything unusual, isn't that my normal game ?

I used to think a player always had to play to the best of their abilities at all times..but I've changed, maybe players should have the right to NMR
Why is it assumed that it's a problem with the guy who gives up ? Maybe he or she gives up because the problem is the other players

I've played with you without NMRing, so clearly, it's possible to not NMR despite the other players.

I'm not a fan of throwing games, but there's still no reason to NMR rather than simply ordering an all-hold there.

I get that point about using holds rather than NMR's

And maybe I should refine my comments about where the problem is
Maybe the problem is not wholly with the chap who decides to give up, maybe it's a shared problem

Maybe NMRs have always been a part of diplomacy; and you shoul plan for them. Take into account that one player may get an advantage from any civil disorder (like a real war if a king dies and there is nobody to command the armies)

It entirel makes the game unpredictable and harder... But it is still diplomacy, and you will need to use your words to turn the tide...

A much harder game in some ways.

@Mitchel, if the game isn't fun i recommend voting to cancel. Finding a replacement or trying to get out by any other means you can think of... It should be fun, but dropping out can be negative fun for others, so if we universalised your behaviour, nobody would have any fun...

Ah, blaming others for what you do, typical of a liberal.

I thought it was the Communists and Scientology crowd who prescribed behaviour conformity

And Conservatives always had to do what they do as a market necessity and never accept responsibility for their crimes

After all it's an economic neccesity that their greed be satisfied

And libertarians offer you a choice of ways to spell neccesity

@_Orathaic.. Excellent work.. I've made similar comments before..random anarchic events make for a better game, it's due to the incompetency of Governments that WW1 got going in the way it did, and the collapse of tsarist Russia was an unexpected twist

Oops forgot to add the mad muslim mullahs in with the common and Scientology crowd, thou shall not wear a mankini or bikini, thou must wearest the burkini

This bloody minded auto script correcting s/w
The flaming Commos not common

Even communist leader Deng Xiaoping agrees that to get rich is glorious. It is not a crime to earn the money that one deserves for their contribution the society. Those who don't deserve to starve.

Ahem.

We gather here today to mourn the loss of one of the most productive threads in webDiplomacy history. It was an amazing run that this thread had - eight full pages of productive discussion without a political tangent. In fact, I remember when this thread was just a baby. I have never encountered another thread laid out so efficiently, with relevant statistics compiled exclusively into the opening post and a productive discussion from the outset, even with a few not-so-veiled insults mixed in. Between these insults and bad jokes lied a layer of helpful and genuine suggestions, truly an amazing thing on this site so full of useless political diatribes.

Its death is untimely and not fair. We should not have to bury such a special thread at such a young age. We grieve and we cry, for it is not right that such a great thread should die at such a young age. We do not understand why it should be taken away from us. This thread was such a bright and gleaming ray of hope in this desolate wasteland of mafia, live game advertisements, and fake passport spammers, and yet we never even had a chance to say good bye.

But despite its untimely death, this thread will go on. Yes, it may become a political debate between a bunch of people whose opinions nobody actually cares about. Yes, those involved may have literally no possibility of changing their minds about anything they say. Yes, those involved will likely only say the things they say as part of an endless quest for approval from strangers on the internet. But even in its death, this thread will live in our hearts and minds for as long as we too may live. Its legacy is everlasting, its purpose is realized, and ultimately, we are all better off having been in touched by the presence of this great forum thread.

Godspeed, forum thread number 1396071. Go well into the next world. I cannot wait until we meet again.

Shut up, Bo_Sox.

This thread has miles to run.

Trump.

And I opened it this time to say the way a link to the Boston Massacre tournament has just appeared at the top of the show..top of our page is a good feature of this site
I've had a try at a few other sites, but t like WebDiplomacy because it's not monetised ? And more importantly I think it has the best presentation of maps, is easy to use etc etc
VDiplomacy is the other site that's so similar in the way it's presentations of things way you use it to play.
My preference is to keep WebDiplomacy and VDiplomacy separate, promote both sites for new members... Could we encourage our younger members to proselytise for the two sites and recruit from their non playing peers..I'd like to start by suggesting some young sparks in our player base mimic the Scientology tactic of the recruiting questionnaire.. Come up with their own version, post it somewhere else in their internet activities to a link that's created, where hits are linked to the bright young sparks recruitment questionnaires player ID, and the players who score the most hits/ new members get points prizes from Zultars treasure chests of points

Throwing games?! PlayDip is awful??

Alright you rascals, I know you're trying to give me an aneurysm. Next thing somebody will suggest treating draws and solos as equal and ask why everybody makes such a big deal about needing to talk in full press games.

So I confess to making posts that were off topic, some of us try to have a bit of fun, bigger membership requires tolerance. Conversations can vary from strictly on topic, wander off, but it's good to be reminded of the purpose of the thread, so thanks for doing that Bo Sox

...oh were you being satirical again ? You were you sly fly guy ?

Plus I want to keep VDiplomacy and WebDiplomacy separate because I can have two different player names and a faint illusion of multi accounting

So beautiful, bo, I don't even have words.

@ VI

The PlayDip experience for new players is awful. And it really is. The us and them atmosphere the advanced membership fee creates is smaller than I suspected it might be, but it is there, and the quality of games available to new players is dire.

I am in the process of playing my third game there. The first thing you notice is that the choice of games available is tiny. If you're hoping for a classic game with days of 24+ hours the chances are you won't find one. When you do, you join and wait. When seven people are in confirmation emails are sent out, you confirm and wait. Then you get an email saying not everyone has confirmed in time, and it opens it up to the join period again.

You would think that such a joining method may ensure all seven players start when the game gets going, but you'd be wrong. There is an option for protection against nmr starts, but you have to be very lucky to find a suitable game that's chosen it. The other option is to make the game yourself, of course, but that's asking a lot from people new to it all.

Anyway, the gameplay itself feels ok. The map looks good, the order system I personally don't like, but works well enough (less so on phones), and it feels pretty solid. The message system has the distinct advantage of allowing conversation between several players at once, but in terms of trying to keep track of who said what to whom and when is... challenging to say the least. I very much prefer ours.

The biggest failing is the number of CDs from good positions. I've yet to have a game where fewer than two significant CDs have taken place. You can shrug off a minor player packing in early, but when your Western Triple suddenly changes from dominating the board to you vs the juggernaut over night for no reason, you can be forgiven for feeling a bit miffed. It is less diplomacy and more a game of dice with an online chat feature.

I've been damned tempted to pressing the evil little surrender button in every game so far. It's pretty much pointless playing.

Yes, Playdip is awful for new players. I hope things are better here, but really have no idea if it's true.

So like I said I was going to, I've been trying out Backstabbr, one of our competitor sites.

BACKSTABBR

Joining and initial log in:

- The fact that you can join and log-in using your Google account is useful and made sign-up take just a few seconds.

- When you set up your account, you can set email reminders (when turns process, etc) which I know some webDip users have asked for.


Interface and game options:

- Classic is the only available map.

- The game defaults to what we call "rulebook press" - it is possible to turn on press for all phases if desired at game set-up. Games are also Anon by default.

- The option "do not process over weekends" is an available feature.

- In the game, the point-and-click interface is quite nice.

- The ability to send press to more than one other power at once is a nice feature too.

- I didn't like the fact that on the map, territory doesn't change colour based on control - only the SCs themselves change colour, and they're very small dots on the map. I found myself squinting quite a lot to check control of land which on webDip the map makes a lot clearer.


The Forum:

- The forum is actually a seperate linked site, for which you have to register for separately. That's rather clunky and for me seemed confusing and a bit of a downside.

- Their forum is absolutely dead. When I joined the site, on 23rd September, the most recent new thread had been started in June, and only had 7 comments in it. Amusingly one of the more popular threads was about Backstabbr being "ruined by NMRs".


Additional Features:

- Backstabbr has a "sandbox" mode which lets you try out moves. This would be very useful to beginning players.


Player base:

The player base appears quite small. There was no exact way of telling but the number of active games was about 1/3 the number of active games usually going here on webDip. That said, I was able to start a game and within 12 hours I have 7 players, and today I've joined a gunboat game. So games do happen, but it feels quite a quiet site and, like I say, there's no forum activity whatsoever.


Impressions as a new player:

The site is clean and the interface is well designed. Joining is easy and getting into games is quite easy too. The site doesn't feel all that "welcoming" given the total lack of forum activity but neither is it unwelcoming.

On the note of backstabbr I currently use backstabbr for the sandbox feature and use it to practice openings and convoys. I have found I really like the point and click method of play that they employ. I also have played games on backstabbr and can agree that the ability to message multi nations at once is very helpful and adds a layer to the game. Being able to in 1901 start a conversation with both England and France when you are Germany to discuss a WT is not only easier than talking to them seperate it more closely simulates the F2F play in which you could meet in groups to discuss strategy.

we've had this kind of discussion over at vdip too, about stagnation, shrinking and how to recruit and hold(!) new players.

there were many things said that were absolutely true and desireable, and i pointed there on an aspect where my profession lies and i may be able to actively help:

from my experience, when recruiting people i know they love strategy board games and they are being defacto "always on" and therefor are spot on target group for diplomacy, one major feedback was about the interface.

a) it was said this is feeling, looking and (by far most important) playing like browsergames from 1999 (we've played that a lot and liked them back then). for me as a long term user, the interface does not hinder me at all to play diplomacy here or on vdip (well, i have made my interface adjustments to see more same time than the standard layout provides), but it's obviously giving a bad first impression to those who may be interested but not familiar yet. some were scared away fast, others stayed, accepting the current state and seing it's somewhat okay once dived into it.
This is not at all about looks, but about streamlining all things that are regularly done in this game – collecting information about the state of a game, communication, setting orders, viewing the map, which all has a lot of potential to improve with the knowledge of user experience and interface design from the last decade ...

b) after NMRs of new players i recruited, the reason given was very often: "i was online on my mobile only and would have wanted to set orders, but setting up was so tedious there i just gave up, sorry".
Now i know if someone says "mobile" and "app" many alarm bells ring, as diplomacy is far from being a casual game app by it's design. anyway, while improving a), a lot could be done to make b) less of a hurdle. No need for "apps" and fancy stuff giving a wrong impression about this game, but making the interface better on desktop screens will help making it better on mobiles too.

i'd be willing to actively help with interface design and implementation (it's what i earn my money with) if there is interest and coordination present. two and a half years ago i posted this on the webdiplomacy.net developers forums, but this never got traction ... http://forum.webdiplomacy.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1696&sid=a355bd3c989ed2b69cf44d61d33843d3
As this is still lying around as a potential starting point (no final result!) i thought i'd give it another try when reading this topic here.

@HalberMensch

We'd love to take you up on that offer. Send an email to [email protected] and we'll see if we can get a good discussion on interface improvement going! :)

Hellenic Riot (webDiplomacy Administrator)