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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 722 of 1419
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trip (696 D(B))
17 Mar 11 UTC
Gunboat Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry
48 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
19 Mar 11 UTC
Ancient Med Live
7 replies
Open
mr.crispy (0 DX)
18 Mar 11 UTC
So quiet
you know, on a friday night I would have totally expected more people here on diplomacy, there's only 4 other people online hahaha... WHERE IS EVERYBODY!
11 replies
Open
MODS UNPLAUSE THIS GAME PLEASE
HE TOLD U GUYS TO PAUSE THIS GAME AND HE WAS THE ONLY ONE ME AND THE OTHER PEOPLE WANT IT UPAUSED NOW
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=53828
23 replies
Open
feartheroos (0 DX)
18 Mar 11 UTC
MODS UNPAUSE THIS GAME PLEASE
0 replies
Open
maltizok (787 D)
18 Mar 11 UTC
Mods Pause this live game please!
14 replies
Open
Chester (0 DX)
16 Mar 11 UTC
Game private
If anyone want to enter in a private game send me a message please.

gameID=53607
10 replies
Open
TrustMe (106 D)
13 Mar 11 UTC
2011 Masters, Needs more alternates
Please send me your userID (number), UserName via email to [email protected]. We have had several people drop out for various reasons and my list of alternates is about empty. We need 49 active players or this tournament cannot be run. Thanks for you help.
13 replies
Open
WhiteSammy (132 D)
18 Mar 11 UTC
Game Messages
What falls in this category and when are they tabulated?
4 replies
Open
Philalethes (100 D(B))
18 Mar 11 UTC
The Best Techniques Are Passed on by the Survivors
Only three hours left and one spot- join the fun! :D
0 replies
Open
peter25 (0 DX)
18 Mar 11 UTC
We need for guys to join.
Please join to the game: "lets use the strength". Will start in two hours, minutes turns and the bet is 30. PLEASE JOIN.
0 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
16 Mar 11 UTC
Japan Goes Nuclear
CNN is reporting that the last 50 workers have been recalled from the plant...that and a new fire...

Can this become Chernobyl II? And how is this going to affect the rest of the world, Japan being an economic power...
90 replies
Open
ginger (183 D)
17 Mar 11 UTC
quick question
Is it possible for a unit to retreat to the region it was attacked from? (pretty sure I know the answer, just don't want to mess up)
3 replies
Open
IKE (3845 D)
17 Mar 11 UTC
Fast gunboat- 12 hr phase
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=53697
Not much time to join. Need 2 more people.
1 reply
Open
curtis (8870 D)
17 Mar 11 UTC
Ancient Med Live
0 replies
Open
Эvalanche (100 D)
05 Mar 11 UTC
Anarchy
Do we need government?
Page 7 of 11
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Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
Oh my friend, you have no idea how looney the underworld of Trotskyism is. I have to see it (them) in all their doctrinaire/sectarian absurdity all the time. There are probably more Trotskyite "parties" than Baptist churches. I can't remember which "international" the Trotskyist sects all claim to be on right now. [There were 3 proper 'internationals' - international alliances of Communist Parties. Trotskyites keep claiming they've formed a new one under their leadership] They absolutely hate their fellow leftists more than they do the right. Not surprisingly many Trotskyists have ended up becoming neo-conservatives. There are a dozen Trotskyite factions all more looney than the next, and they all loathe one another. Some softer Trotskyite groups are ok, like Workers World Party here in the US (a ridiculous name, but whatever). But most of them are so over the top that they alienate people. They have no concept of how to appeal to non-political people, or passively interested people.

One of the worst groups of Trotskyists, the Spartacist League, exists solely to disrupt and attack other people's meetings. The International Socialist Organization is also pretty bad, but they at least try to organize somewhat.

But that's all that Trotskyism is - factionalism, wrecking and splitting. They're a poisonous influence on the left, and the stronger their presence is the weaker the left generally is. Their favorite tactic (of many groups) is to show up to protests/demonstrations without helping to organize it, then completely usurp leadership of the event and steal credit for other people's work. They'll frequently, for example, make a big ruckus by trying to lead marches to where they want them to go, so they're in "front", ignoring the previously made and democratically agreed upon plan.

Recently in Columbus, here where I live, there was a meeting in which we were trying to organize a temporary coalition vs the anti-union bill the state government is trying to pass. Trots (as we call them) spent the whole time promoting their particular stupid groups and telling us why we should join them, and ignored the purpose of the meeting completely.

God, they're obnoxious [/rant]
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
Just to say, there are normal M-L groups out there who don't act like freaks. Our general approach is "win all that can be won"; an emphasis on the particular "time, place & conditions" of every situation and to "unite the advanced, mobilize the intermediate, and isolate the backward", a much more pragmatic approach than many leftie factions out there.

[In the Marxist-Leninist lexicon - advanced = politically active people. People who are organizing and working to make change. intermediate = the majority, the group with varied sentiments and contradictory ideas, people who generally aren't politically active. Backward = naysayers and opposition, people who actively oppose our agenda.] The people who are advanced/intermediate/backward changes from situation to situation. The point is to always adapt, to never be rigid, to always learn from what works and what doesn't.
fulhamish (4134 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
From Edward Abbey:

''Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based on five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, and county commissioners.''
fulhamish (4134 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
I would also take issue with the poster on Spain who criticised the Barcellona effort in the Civil war. I know that this was some time ago, but I did not have the time to respond then. Anyway there is this primary source, in case anyone is intereseted:

"Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said 'Senor' or 'Don' or even 'Usted;' everyone called everyone else 'Comrade' and Thou,' and said 'Salud' instead of 'Buenos Dias.'" It seemed like all men were equal, and there was hope in the air. "All this was queer and moving. There was much in it I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognized it almost immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for."

Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
From noone:

"Anarchism is not a romantic fable but proof that even after five thousand years of experience, where the better organized, advanced and well-governed civilizations/countries have systematically expanded, conquered and eliminated the rest, there're still ignorant people who haven't realized how the world works."
fulhamish (4134 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
From Fulhamish:

Idealism over cynicism for me every time.

To Ivo,

I would ask just how does your ''world' work? I believe that the 20th century was the bloodiest ever. There is every chance that this one will exceed it unless we collectively stop behaving like cannon fodder to feed the guns and bombs for the sake of a series of arbitary lines drawn on a map.

''Anarchism is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based on five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, and county commissioners.''
pastoralan (100 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
I also ran into a group of Trotskyites at college, in 1992. They were really excited, because the "fall of Communism" showed that they'd been right all along. One guy looked up my phone number and kept inviting me to rallies and such, until the election (the first one I could vote in). The conversation:

"So who did you vote for?"
"I voted for Clinton."
"Oh, so you voted for the bourgeois candidate."
"Well, since I'm a member of the bourgeoisie, it seemed like the thing to do."



long pause.

"Oh, I see." <click>
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
Fulhamish - why do you think no anarchy-based society survived for these thousands of years? I see two options - they were either unable to survive on their own, or were crushed by other, stronger civilizations.
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
Btw, the 20th century was the bloodiest ever mostly because there were a lot of idealist who got in power - Nazis, communists, jihadists, etc.

Having ideas is tricky if they are really stupid...
Sicarius (673 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
How is an anarchistic society being "crushed by other, stronger civilizations" proof of it's inherent problems? Indigenous americans were basically wiped out completely by european invaders. Many indigenous cultures were anarchistic in nature, so was the genocide proof of their inferior way of living?
The mass defection of european settlers to indigenous tribes seems to say otherwise.
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
First, I don't think there's such a thing as an anarchistic society. That's not a viable social structure. Since the moment people started speaking they wanted to interact with each-other. Which means you need some rules. Rules need to be defined and enforced. It's only logical that the strongest one (by whatever criteria was used at the time) was appointed/took charge of this task.

Indigenous Americans, just as most other cultures to be colonized were NOT anarchistic in nature, but in most cases some form of monarchy.

People need government and will always seek to create one. In the rate occasion where a group of people somehow dropped out of the map for some time and it all went down into chaos... I can assure you, it was neither good, nor did it last too long.

...

As for your main question, as I understood it:
Yes, unfortunately that's how the world works. Strong and good governance makes a difference long-term and if you don't have one chances are you'll be crushed.

But we've come a long way. In the modern age, there have been no wars between two democracies. Long learning curve and leaders with too many ideas. Maybe it's not the best idea to reboot the world back to the stone age after all. Money may not be perfect, but even the most corrupt politician is less scary than most famous 19th and 20th century 'idealists'.
fulhamish (4134 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
@ Sicarius

I agree completely. Ivo's argument using, as it does, words like ''survive'' and ''crushed'' appears to be based on a determinalistic almost Social Darwinist view of the world. This has become the accepted paradigm and its root lies here -

''With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.''

or, more to the point here -

''At some future point, not distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla''

Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
Btw, as I know you think of yourself as someone close to nature and disapprove of all other theologies and religions, have you considered that anarchy is just another ideology?

I mean, if you want to live free as the wind then you can surely do it - go somewhere in the wilderness and knock yourself out, alone, or with whoever is on your wave-length. But if you want to live in a society then you should realize:
- most people find rocks and sticks hurtful. Gold is shiny and while it can still hurt when you lose, at least you have all your limbs.
- speaking and interacting with each-other requires rules. 'Don't do to others what you don't want done to yourself' works for anarchists too, doesn't it? :)

If you want to do it yourself, because the others are morons... sort out your definitions and then run for office :P
fulhamish (4134 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
@ Ivo

Do you see a conflict between this:

''Btw, the 20th century was the bloodiest ever mostly because there were a lot of idealist who got in power - Nazis, communists, jihadists, etc.''

and this:

"Anarchism is not a romantic fable but proof that even after five thousand years of experience, where the better organized, advanced and well-governed civilizations/countries have systematically expanded, conquered and eliminated the rest, there're still ignorant people who haven't realized how the world works."

?

Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
@fulhamish - I'm not using any argument. I asked a question. Do you have any response?
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
No, I don't. Can you define this conflict? :)
fulhamish (4134 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
1) The answer to your question is that the inate authoritian structure of our society is much more afraid of anarchism than even communism. It must be stopped, largely by depreciating it, at all costs, you have bought into this by believing the 'unpracticality and left field' nature of anarchist ideas. In my view you have bought a pup which has been sold to you by the status quo. On another thread someone has pointed out that 400 individual Americans own more than 195 million others. Even a blind man could see a vested interest at work against here against ideas of anarchism and equality.

2) The conflict referred to is your assumption of the forward progress of government and society. I am sorry to disillusion you but it just hasn't happened, hence the reference to the 20th century.
Gideon (164 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
The original question was, "Do we need government?"

That question is insufficient if answered "yes" or "no." The existence of government is not a choice like whether or not we should have eggs for breakfast. It is a reality of human existence, and it is tied to the fact that mankind has willpower. This willpower effectively makes each person his own government. He is manager of his own affairs, and he can interact, cooperate, oppose, or trade with others. In other words, he is a sovereign individual.

When anarchists talk about their namesake, they (or admittedly some of them) do not mean to remove government altogether. That would mean taking from mankind one of the fundamental things that make him human. On the contrary, anarchy is simply removing the coercive rule of one over another. In this scenario, men still interact, but they do so freely in a relationship were neither imposes his will on the other. The alternative scenario involves one becoming the master, and one becoming the slave to the master's will (even if ever so slightly).

Of course, one could say that if one man, of his own free accord, gave up a portion of his own will to be governed by another, no one could argue that rule. This is true, and this is also the way that many kingdoms, republics, and dictatorships began. An honest anarchist will not deny the valid creation of such institutions while questioning whether the non-coercive foundation of those governments has given way to the same, continuous power play that has plagued the peaceful, the simple, and the just.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
08 Mar 11 UTC
"I would ask just how does your ''world' work? I believe that the 20th century was the bloodiest ever. There is every chance that this one will exceed it unless we collectively stop behaving like cannon fodder to feed the guns and bombs for the sake of a series of arbitary lines drawn on a map."

this statement does not relate to anarchism.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
08 Mar 11 UTC
we can do this:

"collectively stop behaving like cannon fodder to feed the guns and bombs for the sake of a series of arbitary lines drawn on a map."

w/o destroying our governments, which although they unfortunately go to war, also keep us from dying in fires and suchlike.
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
I don't know where you live - maybe it's authoritarian there. If it's worse than communism and you're allowed to leave freely I'd suggest you jump on the plane to Cuba/North Korea. Lybia would be idea if you want to combine communism with anarchy.

"On another thread someone has pointed out that 400 individual Americans own more than 195 million others".

Plus, you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "own". Most of these other people are actually paid to do a job (not very good one quite often), if they don't like it they can go some place else, even leave the country. From time to time, someone of them may end up becoming a member of this 'club of 400'. Just by being smart, hard-working and lucky. No need to stage a revolution, rob a bank, or other similar redistribution of wealth techniques.

Btw, 195 million was the population of the USA a long time ago...

"2) The conflict referred to is your assumption of the forward progress of government and society. I am sorry to disillusion you but it just hasn't happened, hence the reference to the 20th century."

What exactly are you trying to say? This makes no sense at all. Can you elaborate a bit, in a manner understandable to others?
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
" Most of these other people are actually paid to do a job (not very good one quite often), if they don't like it they can go some place else, even leave the country."

Yes in Ivo's fairy tale land, it's easy and cheap to move, get a different job, leave the country, etc. In Ivo's fairy tale land, governments everywhere pay people like Ivo full scholarships to go to good schools, and people like Ivo turn around and say that they became so rich because of their "hard work" and "intelligence" and that the billions of people making far less money than him are just stupid and lazy.
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
"Btw, the 20th century was the bloodiest ever mostly because there were a lot of idealist who got in power - Nazis, communists, jihadists, etc.

Having ideas is tricky if they are really stupid..."

Oh this crap again. How many million did the supposedly "idea-less" capitalists kill in Korea, Vietnam? How many did they kill in Indonesia, Guatemala, Argentina, Chile?
How many civilians did the British and US kill in their bombing raids during WWII? Which country is the only country to use atomic weapons on other people? Who drops carcinogens and cluster bombs on other countries? Who implemented slave labor and butchered people at will in the Congo? Who hauled people into concentration camps in South Africa in 1900-1902?

Just ask yourself which country routinely goes around bombing and invading other countries and spends more money on means of killing people than all other countries combined. Is it a communist one? Is it a capitalist one? Is it a jihadist one?
Sicarius (673 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
ivo: "First, I don't think there's such a thing as an anarchistic society. That's not a viable social structure. Since the moment people started speaking they wanted to interact with each-other. Which means you need some rules. Rules need to be defined and enforced. It's only logical that the strongest one (by whatever criteria was used at the time) was appointed/took charge of this task.
Indigenous Americans, just as most other cultures to be colonized were NOT anarchistic in nature, but in most cases some form of monarchy."

So it's not possible for any number of people to interact with each other without defined enforceable rules, and a leader? jesus, I wouldnt want to hang out with you and your buddies on a friday night. Or come to a family dinner lol.

Monarchistic? laughable. The position of "chief" in most indigenous tribes was not a position of absolute power, nor was it heriditary. sp.
a chief was basically an elder who was looked upon as being very wise. when this elder gives a suggestion most follow it because they trust in the elders opinion. Not because it is an order that must be followed.
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
And this doesn't include the millions who have died from hunger and preventable disease thanks to good ol' unidealistic capitalism. Capitalism is so non-violent and loves life..And of course WWI wasn't a capitalist war for colonies either.
Sicarius (673 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
PS
anarchism can be more accurately described as having no rulERS, not necessarily having no rules.
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
""Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said 'Senor' or 'Don' or even 'Usted;' everyone called everyone else 'Comrade' and Thou,' and said 'Salud' instead of 'Buenos Dias.'" It seemed like all men were equal, and there was hope in the air. "All this was queer and moving. There was much in it I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognized it almost immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for." "

What on earth does this prove? Does this negate the fact that anarchists waged an insurrection against the Republican government in the midst of the Condor Legion's invasion? Does this negate the fact anarchists were crappy fighters and were frequently found to be playing soccer with their supposed enemies? Does this negate the fact that anarchists hoarded weapons that could have been used at the front? Does this negate the fact that the anarchists assassinated their own supposed heroic leader, Durutti, for being too compromising with the communists? Does it negate the fact that supposedly morally pure and idealistic anarchists engaged in torture?

Just asking.
Sicarius (673 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
"Just ask yourself which country routinely goes around bombing and invading other countries and spends more money on means of killing people than all other countries combined. Is it a communist one? Is it a capitalist one? Is it a jihadist one? "

ooo! ooo! ooo! I know! I know! pick me! It's the country that has less than 5% of the worlds population, but does over 50% of the worlds military spending. It's the country that is involved in a new military conflict every, on average, two and a half months.
Sicarius (673 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
Good spanish civil war movie "libertarias"
Putin33 (111 D)
08 Mar 11 UTC
""So who did you vote for?"
"I voted for Clinton."
"Oh, so you voted for the bourgeois candidate."
"Well, since I'm a member of the bourgeoisie, it seemed like the thing to do.""

LOL. Priceless. Demonstrates quite conclusively the counterrevolutionary and pro-capitalist nature of that degenerate ideology.

Page 7 of 11
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327 replies
Wolf89 (215 D)
14 Mar 11 UTC
EOG - Join only if you are talkative
The EOG statements for this game. see inside
15 replies
Open
miskin (106 D)
17 Mar 11 UTC
Come on kids lets play
not in a bad way.
5 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
15 Mar 11 UTC
Study: Posting cheating accusations on the forum leads to death by lightning
NEW YORK (AP) -- Scientists at the NYC College of Technology have discovered that posting cheating accusations on the webdiplomacy forum increases the likelihood of the poster being struck by lightning 2500%.
46 replies
Open
thatonekid (0 DX)
16 Mar 11 UTC
Fast Gunboat-16
England, Fucking ready up
builds don't require 5 minutes
38 replies
Open
Mujus (1495 D(B))
17 Mar 11 UTC
gunboat 11-3-11 Question
I just checked out this game in the New listings, and it shows four players @200 each, but the total is @1000. What kind of new math is that? I signed up just for a minute to see if the total would adjust, but with me there were five total players and the total showed @1200. There's an extra @200 there. Anyone have an explanation?
11 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
16 Mar 11 UTC
Resolved order outputs?
Weird, it can only be 4 lines. I'll post the rest in a reply a guess...
8 replies
Open
The_Master_Warrior (10 D)
17 Mar 11 UTC
New Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=53685
PPSC, 24 Hour turns, Classic Map, all chat types allowed, 5 point buy-in, game starts in 48 hours, "Ready, not Save"
0 replies
Open
baumhaeuer (245 D)
02 Mar 11 UTC
The Seperation of Church and State...
...is good! And I'm Christian. Details inside. I'm starting my own thread, though, I doubt anyone will really disagree with me. But still, you may find my thinking interesting. Almost none of it is original with me.
267 replies
Open
tquiring (325 D)
16 Mar 11 UTC
Question about CD and automatic disbanding of units.
I think the wrong units were disbanded in this game, can anyone explain why.
http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID=52742&turn=3&mapType=large
3 replies
Open
terry32smith (0 DX)
16 Mar 11 UTC
We need 1 more for a Live game! starts in 4 minutes!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=53648
6 replies
Open
rayNimagi (375 D)
16 Mar 11 UTC
How to Stop Players in FtF from Refusing to Talk
Details and specific situations inside
20 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
16 Mar 11 UTC
eog
3 replies
Open
Chester (0 DX)
12 Mar 11 UTC
2 cheaters in this server!
Hello, i've reported but didn't happened nothing. I don't know if the message was been sended but here it goes... http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=53036

Italy and Austria are roommates and always play a lot of games together
56 replies
Open
fabiobaq (444 D)
16 Mar 11 UTC
Ancient Mediterranean
Hi, just to invite people into an Ancient Mediterranean new game. 20 hours/phase, PPSC.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=53600
0 replies
Open
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