lol I just read Vastha's Rools for Noobs, especially Vanilla townies:

1. Don't be Afraid to Die: Uhhh....BULLSHIT. Anyone townie WILLING to die is a fucktard. FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE IS YOU ARE TOWNIE. You're a dumbass, Vash
1a. Don't Lurk. Alternately, it seems every game I play the lurkers get ignored as the town makes a mad rush to anally inspect anyone that says anything or makes a typo, and thus all people are suspect. Therefore, if you have nothing of value to say, and you are a Vanilla Townie, and nobody is trying to kill you - go ahead and lurk if you think you are adding value to the game. Plus, Power Roles often take on a lurking aspect so as to not draw attention to themselves. Again...VASH FAIL....
1b. Dont' spam....whatever the hell that means. It's *purely* subjective. I used a spam-a-lot strategy last game specifically to try to annoy people and get mafia to attempt to kill me based upon me be an annoying spammer. It worked...I recognized their bad behavior in part because of their un-townie behavior towards me. Therefore, if spamming is your style and it serves a purpose...GO FOR IT. Another Vashta Fail.....(sigh....you suck, boy...)

3. Be organized....LOL Yeah, keep accurate records of every vote and every fart every player makes, because being able to map every polyp in your neighbors colon is VERY useful in this game......NOT!! If, on the other hand, you like to fly by the seat of your pants, and your judgement of another isn't made by mis-spelled words, or things that are easy to fake/hide like voting patterns....if you judge a man by the shitty advise he gives to people in an attempt to persuade/manipulate them....then don't be detailed other than to keep a general feeling lcoked deep in your heart for a man's character. Or, do this:
VASH --> sCUM notch +1 because you think he's full of Shiite.

Rule 4. If you can't lynch mafia, lynch bad town. Ugh.... VASH MUST DIE. One, you don't know the difference between mafia and bad town unless you are psychic. Two, NEVER EVER EVER LYNCH A TOWNIE INTENTIONALLY. Yeah....VAHS Sucks.

Rule 5 NK and meta matters -- yeah, he's right there. Finally.

Rule 6 Be civil and have fun.....ridiculous, as if these two are inherently tied together. On the contrary, if you feel the need to call someone a flaming douchewad - because they are - and you are seeking to probe their weak girlish psyche, then be as much of an ass as is required for you to accomplish your goal.


##VOTE VASH for posting the biggest pile of horseshit I've seen in a while.

@ Vecna: I would like to see Chaqa participate a little more, for sure. I don't think his vote for Brainbomb is useless, however. I also don't agree with you that not tunnelling Ghug is somehow inherently scummy.

I would certainly ignore a lot of what Ghug says, given his track record of terrible judgement.

@brainbomb "Example B) Jamiet is questioned by ghug, Jamiet esponds but gives an uneven answer. All the new players chime in and asks questions about important stuff, no silly lollypops. Ghug gets distracted, and any chance at a momentum of conversation on jamiet is lost as a result. When krellin shifts the topics to being about OMGUS, the pro’s the con’s.
These are things we want to watch for. This is scum tactics 101,"



This is sheer and complete idiociy on the order of The Holy Vashtitudes.

Sometimes, dumbass, I am trying to catch up on the night idiotic blathering and I am commenting just because I saw something interesting that I wanted to respond to before I forgot. Not every hiccup and fart has some deep devious meaning. God, you are a troll's troll, aren't you?

But I'm not voting for you yet...still waiting for my Holy Vashtitude provocation to take affect.

Vecna says posting in the forum is scummy. Lol.

I strongly disagree with krellin's criticism of vash's post, i thought the tips given out made a lot of sense when you read the whole thing and didn't pick a few phrases to go apeshit over. It definitely didn't deserve that diatribe.

I have a lot of issues with this bit of brainbomb's big page 4 post:

"2) Ideal strategy might be to go uber defense with our PR’s. If we combine the abilities of Peach giving out a Magic Mushroom, with the Doctor covering likely PR potentials, we will have 2 people protected from Nightkills on future endevours. I would argue that the Vig should also hold his/her shot on N1 as well as a way to possibly stave off some excess town hemorrhaging, and save bullets for later in the game if things go horrible for us like last game. Peach should probably not be giving out guns since you never know if you are giving them to scummies."

this doesn't sound helpful to me, this sounds like PR action engineering that may lead to PR's revealing themselves. telling vig to not shoot and peach to not give out guns is scummy in my mind. it means you're afraid of the non-mafia kills.

Krellin still claiming voting patterns dont mean shit....Ok then. If the town asshats in last game had listened to me we still wouldve won on that last game. Just based on voting habits I had the entire scumteam pegged there since you were all on our town PR's.

Saying voting habits are useless is the biggest pile of crap ever. Sure it can be faked at times, but when scum have a shot to lynch a PR and they think they can blend in theyll pretty much allways take that opportunity. Later on when all the other people on that wagon are dead, sifting out the scum suddenly becomes a lot easier.

Hoho Chaqa, way to twist my words. Im saying you pretending not to have time for mafia while youre spamming other threads is scummy. Quite the difference. Scummy pidgeon.

Hoho Vecna, way to twist my words. Never said I didn't have time. I said to expect lurking.

Time to check in here.

I generally find the first half of D1 to be pretty useless until you can start analysing votes, but the following jumps out at me:

1) brainbomb using gambler's fallacy to imply OB is more likely to be scum because he's been town in recent games. What is that shit?

2) Vecna has come in bizarrely pissy. It's all very well continuing an argument from the previous game, but he actually seems more annoyed now than he did at the time. That's odd.

##GM Note

@Vecna: Bo posted a quick vote count at the end of last night just to be helpful for you guys. In future, all vote counts will of course provide full names of players; avoid spelling mistakes; and include all players. All Official Vote Counts will be marked as 'official' and I will post a fresh vote count below, for posterity, so that everyone's clear on this.

@Jamie @brainbomb: Roles are random. This topic has already been covered in the sign up thread, and by GMs in many of the other Mafia games. I'll refer you both again to Rule 4: "the fun of this game is reading people, not outguessing the GM."

If you want to engage in subjective speculation that's up to you, not me. Entertaining the Gambler's Fallacy is at the discretion of players, not the GMs.

@krellin: you seem to miss the part at the beginning where I say YMMV (your mileage may vary) I.e this strategy works for me, maybe not so much for you.

If you want to vote me over it I suggest you show why these ideas are not consistent with my past games as town, instead of simply voting me for having different paradigms than you.

Mafia XVIII Day 1
Official Vote Count 1.0:

y2kjbk (1): xorxes
Jamiet99uk (1): ghug
captainmeme (1): WardenDresden
ghug (1): brainbomb
brainbomb (4) y2kjbk, OB_GYN_Kenobi, Jamiet99uk, Chaqa
Chaqa (1): Vecna
VashtaNeurotic (1): krellin

Not voted (12): captainmeme, DemonOverlord, DemonRHK, goldfinger0303, Hellenic Riot, MoscowFleet, ND, reedeer1, teacon7, trip, VashtaNeurotic, Yoyoyozo

Currently BRAINBOMB is set to be lynched!

You have 31 hours 30 minutes remaining until the end of Election Day 1!

You guys have absolutely NO chill, it's day one

@Vecna -- OK - voting patterns CAN have an impact. the problem is when dumbfucks ONLY look at voting patterns, or rely too heavily on them. If you will ONLY vote for someone who has a "bad" voting pattern, then a good mafia will NEVER be voted for. Likewise, someone that makes a mistake can get lynched because of morons that rely too heavily on that single data point. I stand by my word - voting patterns are interesting at best, but should never be used as the soul cause to lynch someone.

@Vash -- Bro, I'm just fucking with you.

Here

##UNVOTE

It was a good ploy on my part to seek a reaction. You didn't bite. I still think your "here's how to play the game like me and lose it for the town" guidebook sucks donkeyballs.

Thanks to all for your answers from a few pages back. Yes, I am lost. No, please do not "rabbit" me--I don't want to die! I really appreciated the general-advice posts posted by vash and bb, even if they were just generically copy/pasted from other places. So: thank you! Yet: I don't remember who said "don't fear death," but that seems silly. Fear death: It seems like the enjoyment of participating outweighs the feeling of "winning" the game two weeks after you've been eliminated. Maybe that's just me.

Here's a diagnostics question: what's the point of picking apart people's language this early? Because everyone has the ability to lie, distract, misrepresent, etc., it seems like voting patterns offer a much more reliable way to determine who is in the mafia. Voting wagons ("bandwagons," right?), early or late on day one seem like one of MANY ways to draw out potential mafia, be they wordy or not. So... thanks to those who are posting/maintaining vote trackers, that's going to be helpful.

So here's a question: how much can you _quantitatively_ tell from voting patterns on the first day, apart from how the posts present themselves?

@y2k -- You disagree with my disagreement of Vash's "One way to play the game". lol gfy. I didn't pick a few phrases to critique -- I critiqued the entire thing in all it's ridiculous one-way-to-play wholeness. AND...I even praised the singular thing I liked.

BUT...and here's the big, flaming red ape butt full of nits and fleas....YOU obviously didn't read my criticism well enough to understand it....but you DID do the expected scum reactionary move of saying krellin's criticism has no merit.

You threw your bomb, tried to taint my value to the town...then ran away like a pussy.

Check...check and check....

OK...to update:

Vash --> Scum Notch -2 (meaning he's now -1 and a good guy) for trying.

y2k --> Scum Notch +1 for the typical anti-krellin type of bomb-throwing, dismissing my words without understanding them because it's easy to do. Yup....got my eye on you now.

My thoughts on pg 1-4

As I'm new to this, I won't be bringing any cross game info with me, so I apologize if I sound naive. I do believe that an unbiased opinion would be a good balance, so I'll try to stay that way during the first day or two.

An order of occurrence:

bb votes for HR
ghug votes for HR
y2k votes for HR
Jamie questions vote
bb changes vote to y2k
Jamie asks why not change vote to ghug
ghug votes for Jamie
bb changes vote to krellin

My original feeling was to wonder why Jamie was questioning early votes only as something scummy, but I really liked his question to bb about why he switched his vote to y2k instead of ghug. Not only did bb not answer the question, he then changed his vote to krellin without providing any reason. When questioned about that he then voted for multiple people at the same time.

From that group, I'm feeling Jamie as most likely town, y2k undecided, and ghug and bb as possibly suspect. The reason for the last two is I find ghug's quick reaction to vote for Jamie when he asked bb the question about why he changed from HR to y2k to be quite the coincidence. My feeling on not trusting bb has to do with him not giving reasons for voting the way he does, and changing his vote every time someone questions him on it.

I'm going to refrain from voting until I catch all the way up in the thread, but wanted to get my two cents in.

If anyone has questions about my thoughts, please ask, but do understand that my response may not be immediate as I'm balancing a few things today.

krellin the pathetic victim as always, i'm so sorry i threw a bomb at you smh

Im liking the direction this is taking. Everyone is so uncivil. Bunch of baboonish brutes

i wanted to keep it civil but krellin has a way of dragging people down to his level.

trip -- BB is a raving lunatic. His voting pattern most likely will resemble the spatter on the back of the toilet bowl after a hard night of greasy tacos and cheap beer. Unfortunately, you will most likely gather no information from his votes....which means the only information you can draw from his sporadic votes is scum.

If you were actually in BB's mind, evaluating yourself, you would say BB can't possibly be scum because he was scum last game....which probably is exactly why he will act as scum this game hoping to not be deemed scum because of Universal Fate this game, when in fact he is probably he scummiest scum of the scum.

baboonish > baboon> gorilla > donkey kong > mario > townread > lol

Point of order question: Can someone remind me when this phase ends? I have actual work to do in real life, but I figure the real voting discussion will take place as we get closer to the end of the phase, so I'll need to check in then.

y2k -- Not a pathetic victim -- I'm an easy target for scum. You dismiss me because you don't like me. You refuse to acknowledge what I say because it's easy to ignore....especially when it is working against you.

Even your childly dismissive comment above can be read as exactly the sort of thing scum would do.

Our objective ....correction, the TOWN'S objective....is to take a serious look at what EVERYBODY says, and if we criticize others, understand why the criticism and be prepared to offer a detailed explanation of the criticism.

Your attempt to dismiss someone else's explanation is "he's a dick...don't listen to him". That is *perfect* scum behavior.

##VOTE y2k

krellin calling me childish, i've heard it all. i took a serious look at your ripping apart Vash's post and determined you're not scum-reading, but rather inciting. early on, that's not necessarily scummy, fishing for reactions at the beginning is a standard town play. if you're town, i'll expect your shit-spewing to become a bit more constructive moving forward.

##GM NOTE -

This current phase ends on Tuesday at 6 PM EDT.

Thanks!