Magic and science are not mutually exclusive. What was Clarke's third law? "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

to the ignorant yes thats how all these cults started. christianity islam judaism ....

Really? By technologically advanced beings? Jesus was an extra-terrestrial?

Electrons emit photons. They aren't created. I'm not a quantum physicist. Consult one.

dipplayer2004:

1. You can read my words as well as I can. I certainly have a conception of what faith (a concept that does not have anything to do with religion) is and if you do not also fear willingly blind loyalty I question either question your judgement or your reading ability. So go ahead and take offence if you wish to include yourself and "many decent, good people" as the types that have the sort of faith I have outlined, but that is not what I said. What I said, and what I insist on, is that atheism is neither a faith, nor a religion, nor I dare say even a doctrine. If you wish to be insulted by that, or by my disgust of fascism, the Jonestown massacre and blind patriotism, so be it.

2. Whether Jack Sparrow or gods have changed anybody's lives is not relevant to anything we were discussing. If it is, you didn't bother to make the connection. If you're insulted because it looks like I'm comparing Jack Sparrow to your God, you should know that I simply picked an accessible figure; the point was to illustrate the differences between my conception of faith and yours, not to compare and contrast between your God and Jack Sparrow.

3. Even though you haven't outlined what you mean by God, I can pretty safely assume that claiming your God exists is as unfalsifiable as any other spiritual theory or belief, no matter how minor. That's good enough evidence for me that "He" doesn't exist.

4. You only view me as a bigot because you are not talking to me in person.

does not have anything --> does not necessarily have anything

bump

Go ahead Mr Atheist, deny the existence of as many God's and deities as makes you a happy camper.
I don't mind people havng freedom of Religious expression, provided they do not use it to promote vilonce or hatred.
Your choice of "religious faith" is to have "no religious faith".

just because something is a totally abstract concept does not disallow it's existence
mathematics is a good example from science

what about the notion that as soon as a God or Deity has followers who worship,
then that God or Deity has existence ?

A God I reccomend to those with troublesome spouses is good old Hymen, Greek and Roman God of Marriage. It's no surprise that Divorce is a problem for the adherents of Christianity and the Islamic faith.

Shiva, a Hindu Deity and good old Hymen are the two chaps to look to when confronted with domestic turmoil, your Science is of little use there, and Islam & women, well, just don't get me started !!! As for Christianity, it's a find the doctrine that suits your needs amongst a multitude, from sects that practise polygamy, to others that embrace an almost "anything goes" approach, to the solid Sin & Guilt / Penance, Redemption/Forgiveness of the Church of Rome with it's few Pederasts amongst it's flock, but since it's main game is helping sinners, sinners it needs.

Personally i would rather stay on the "good side" of any Gods, particularly the All Knowing Omnipotent type, and enjoy the goodwill of any other Deities going around and about & if they feel disposed to aid my existence in this Breathing World during my presence here then it would be churlish to refuse such favours & be impolite as well,
so I welcome the Love and Care of any God or Deity

Isn't "all knowing" tautological with respect to omnipotent? Because, if you're omnipotent, then, ya know, you can, well, know.. everything?

errrr.. i figured Omnipotent is "All powerful".....
anyway it's sort of like insulting the Almighty Moderators, there's just no joy to come from it, why invite trouble...so any Gods & Deities wishing to do me any good turns, favours, are only to be encouraged.

I also re iterate the question
What use is Science when confronted with "domestic turmoil" and Her Indoors on the warpath ???
thats when men need Gods and Deities like the ever reliable old Hymen and Shiva.

Mathematics doesn't exist. It is a mental construct.

It's out there orathaic. It's like seeing the Matrix if you have the gift.

It's all in your head redhouse; which doesn't mean it can't be a shared delusion with mathematics teachers around the world and have actual economic consequences...

redhouse1938: Read MajorMitchell's comment. If it's not an artificial construct, mathematics is still a construct. In that sense it certainly doesn't exist. You can't compare it to gods.

It is incredibly useful for predicting real-world events that *aren't* human-related. Religion isn't.

Guys I was kidding.
And mathematics doesn't kill the economy. People kill the economy.

See, Major, if you're all powerful, then you have the power to, uh, know everything.... so, then, "all knowing" is tautological with respect to omnipotence....

Ah redhouse, how poorly you understand people... they USE mathematics, a mental construct, existing just in their minds, to determine what economic booms and busts they will cause... You can blame the people all you want, but you seem to ignore the fact that these people believe in maths.

@dubmdell, if you're all powerful, then you CAN know all, but that doesn't mean you DO know all. For example, I CAN order A con - smy, (in '01 as turkey) but i almost never do...

Why would an all powerful being deny himself all knowledge? Wouldn't an all powerful being get curious sometimes prior to knowing everything? Or for that matter, why should he have to know anything at all? He can just create the truth he wants to exist. All knowing may not be tautological, but it sure seems inane when combined with all powerful.

I dont think it has to be a being. why can God not simply be a governing force of actions. does it have to be an actual living being? or just a perfect system of causes, effects, forces which work without need for individuality. Wouldn't that finally stop this nonsensical belief that god is a male as well?

If God were just a governing force of actions, could it be considered "knowing"?

This all seems to work on a linear timeline. What if there are multiple timelines? Rather than a single line the time line would be more like many strings winding themselves into a rope? God could ultimately "know all" with regard to every string and even all the ways that they could possible be woven. Still in his ominpotence be able to allow others the weave it. Once it is woven he knows how it got that way, and he knew all along that it was one all the possible futures. No need to be degraded into an amporhous governing force. Just a thought. Have fun.

Don't give it too much consideration. It was the product of sinus congestion, cough syrup, and four nights of little sleep. Summer colds suck.

this quibbling over "all powerful" and all knowing" is all so amusing, but...

I re-iterate the question... what use is Science when confronted with domestic turmoil involving spouses and offspring ??? & let's not pretend that these problems do not confront men with spouses and offspring from time to time.

Mitchel, i've no idea what you're even asking... I'm pretty sure humans are animals and should be categorised as such. What use is science when it comes to offspring? Well we can describe the behaviour and probably also predict it...

@ brainbomb if a woman God appeals to you or an asexual God then feel free to worship a God of that tyrpe...my choice is currently with Shiva and Hymen, but I would not refuse the loving and caring favours of any God or Deity, much rather be receiving that sort of treatment than Divine Wrath and Fury.

Ok so Her Indoors is on the warpath & shreiking & wailing offspring are in chaos..
whilst it is true that "all behaviours have meaning and can be understood"
may I assure you that attempting to give a calm dissertation on the various behaviours and the mistakes made & solutions to be employed, will have little practical effect on the Howling Mob.

& Yes, Science gives men the resources to escape to safety of Golf Club or other safe haven, but to quell the Furious Spouse and dissident offspring, i can only offer anecdotal evidence that having the assistance of Shiva and Hymen enables a chap to deal with any behaviour from Her Indoors, and with the good lady "back on mission"
domestic staff and offspring fall into line reasonably promptly.

I think that is a reason why a lot of chaps go for the Islamist Religion, they are very much a "Patriarchal" Religious Organisation / structure & a lifestyle of sitting about drinking Coffee & smoking Hashish whilst the women do most of the work is a seductive proposition.

If other chaps wish to follow Allah via a group of Imans then I don't intend stopping them,
it's the collateral violence & carnage that leaves a mess in the streets of some places that most people object too & they do have a reasonable complaint, particularly the victims.

The problem is not with the God's or Deities, but is caused by Enthusiasm and Religious Fervour & Passion by daffy adherents who get far too excitable and then bloodshed occurs