@Dexter: The government did not create me. God did, my parents did, but the government most definitely did not. So why should I have to obey their rules? I didn't choose to live here. And don't guve me that crap of "why don't you just leave?" because you know what, EVERY house has house rules.
The constitution has no authority over me. Deal with it.

The government is part of the society that allowed you to prosper so far.

You really are an ungrateful little brat, aren't you?

"The constitution has no authority over me."

No it has, convict a crime and you´ll see :-)

A little bloodsucker, willing to benefit from society, but claims he's above its rules.

I think they call people like that sociopaths.

Now, I don't think CM is actually a sociopath. I just think he's a kid who (as I've said earlier) has read more political theory than he's been able to digest properly.

Like most of us, he's going to age ten years and think "God, I wish I could go back and slap the shit out of myself ten years ago!"

"answer the fucking question. How does Prop 8 not violate the 14th amendment?"

I'll take this one. It doesn't violate the 14th Amendment because the 14th Amendment is equal protection. It is not explicit permission for same-sex couples to marry.

This case will probably end up in the Supreme Court (which is unfortunate, because Obama is stacking the Court full of his liberal cronies), but the Supreme Court can't rule on it (because ruling on it would directly violate the 10th Amendment)

@Jack: I didn't ask the government to perform services for me. I DON'T WANT IT TO. The problem is, either A) The government is the only one to provide those services, or B) It costs money to use the alternate service, and I still have to pay taxes as if I used the governments service.

CM: I'll just quote what I said earlier:
"Who else is going to be interested in educating and protecting an entitled brat like yourself?

In the past, large mining companies would put people half your age to work in mines, to likely die before they reached the age of 30. Your only value would be the minuscule labor that could be extracted from your tiny body with a minimum of food and care."

Equal Protection. So one group being allowed to do something, but another group is not allowed to do so.

That sounds equal. Right?

TMW, your half-baked "understanding" of Constitutional jurisprudence is just amusing.

You don't have to have explicit permission in the Constitution to have it protect something. Its written that way to cover as broadly as possible the people's rights.

Go look up Rational Basis test, as well as strict scrutiny. Maybe then you'll have the beginnings of an intellectual foundation to discuss these matters.

Hint: FOX News is not a good source for actual facts!

@ TMW, how does equal protection not apply to gay marriage? It doesn't say "Gays can marry." What it does say (according to wikipedia) is that it requires "each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people within its jurisdiction." Last I checked gays are people. And if you're not providing them with the same legal statuses (and the legal institution of marriage, as opposed to the religious institution of marriage, does in fact constitute protection, again in the legal sense of the word) then you're not providing everyone with legal protection. I'm surprised they had to argue about it so long, it seems pretty cut and dried to me, but then I'm hardly impartial.

you also said how nothing bad had happened in my life, and I replied showing you all the bad things that have happened to me. I like how you conveniently left that out of your re-post.

That was ay Jack, btw

Pointless. I'm addressing the point at hand.

But I'll digress to answer you. Boohoo. Your parents are divorcing. You get... gasp. Bullied.

Get a fucking helmet. If you want to discuss issues as an adult, act like one. Bad things happen to good people. Your issues are minor compared to the shit that gets inflicted on others. There are people on Earth that would kill to have it as "shitty" as you do.

Fucking entitlement brat.

@Jack: You forgot about tha fact, that my dad is an alcoholic, my mom is disabled and has emphysema, and can't leave the house withou me so I have to go EVERYWHERE with her. I aslo knew a girl who was kidnapped and murdered. My life is most likely worse than yours

I'm not interested in comparing sob stories. I've had some bad things happen to me. I've done bad things to myself.

You either get the fuck over it and move on, or you wallow in self-pity.

Even a shitty life in the US is lightyears ahead of some hellholes on this planet. You are too self-involved to see this.

Long story short, quit your crying, and get a helmet.

*Eyeroll* When did this become the, "lets compete to see who has the shittiest life" thread?

@Conservative Man, Tracy is an old rail hub - how do you think that the railroad was built? Did America have anything to do with that? How about the "taming of the west"... did America do that? How about building the roads you drive on? How about where your parents work - and how they bring home money, doesn't that have something to do with America and other Americans? If it wasn't for America, the town you live in would not exist or it would be a rancho under Mexican (or Spanish) rule. And your family might have starved back in Ireland (for example) and your great great grandparents would never have been born... which would have been a problem for you. The millions of Americans who created this nation and continue to create it make it possible for you to live in your home in Tracy and go to your school. They make it possible for you to have food in your local grocery and safe streets to walk on. They made the internet. They made the electric grid you depend upon. Etc. To say that America has nothing to do with what you have and who you are is pretty ignorant. I submit to you that yes, unless you were born in a different country, the government did have a hand in creating you. And every day you spend living off the fruits of the labors of other Americans you can thank our government at least in part for that.

Yes, every house has house rules... but if you go out into the wild where there is no Americans to tell you what to do and you try to support yourself that way... guaranteed that the government will not bother you. This country is vast. There are areas that are tens of thousands of square miles "overseen" by a single ranger. It would be very easy for you to set up camp somewhere and never encounter any governmental oversight. Of course you would also very likely starve... because you are not a mountain man raised to live on your own. ...and because the gun you bring would need bullets, the knife would need to be replaced, the clothes you wear would wear out... and like a six year old who accepts the pack lunch his mom made when he "runs away" you would miss home and be back for dinner. You have no right to expect that there should be a culture ready made to your specifications. You play the hand you are dealt. Right now you have the choice of over two hundred countries and the wilds found in many of those countries. Thank your lucky stars (or the people you share this Earth with) that you can travel to any of these... because if you truly owed nothing to anyone else then you would be walking there... in bare feet and naked (or perhaps, if your really talented, in an animal skin and a sharpened rock in your hand). Are you really this ignorant? Think about it, man.

CM is erecting a straw man to distract from the fact that he can't answer my argument. :P

I know life in like africa is worse than mine, but we're not talking about africa, are we? And how the fuck am I an entitle ment brat? As I've said before, I do NOT want the government to provide me services, but they do, and there really isn't an alternative besides living alone in the wilderness, which isn't very appealing to me.

@dexter: Of course I like my city and want to live in a city, living in a city is NOT nessecary for survival. My city did not create me. The government did not create me. If I had been born in the wilderness, I could have survived fine as a mountain man. But it's not my fault I wasn't.

@Jack: Then what is your argument? You're exact argument?

"Who else is going to be interested in educating and protecting an entitled brat like yourself?

In the past, large mining companies would put people half your age to work in mines, to likely die before they reached the age of 30. Your only value would be the minuscule labor that could be extracted from your tiny body with a minimum of food and care."

quoted for the third time.

Also, if you were born in the wilderness, there would be a significant chance you would have died of an easily preventable medical condition, or ended up as a bear's lunch.

Go look up the infant mortality rate 400 years ago.

"Who else is going to be interested in educating and protecting an entitled brat like yourself?" People interested in making money.

"In the past, large mining companies would put people half your age to work in mines, to likely die before they reached the age of 30. Your only value would be the minuscule labor that could be extracted from your tiny body with a minimum of food and care."
I don't see what you are getting at with that argument. Are you saying that government is a good thing because it stops that from happening? Because I am against capitalism, and capitalism was the main reason why that happened.

"Also, if you were born in the wilderness, there would be a significant chance you would have died of an easily preventable medical condition, or ended up as a bear's lunch."
But the thing is, with no government, I could have been born in a city and still not recieve government services, because cities do not require government to operate.

@Conservative Man, yes, you didn't ask for the life you have. Yeah - join the human race, buddy. Stop whining and make something of your life. No one here or anywhere owes you anything... except that some people in this country got together a while back and decided that they would guarantee you certain freedoms and rights that weren't guaranteed anywhere else... and still are only guaranteed some places. Consider that the world-class education you are getting at West High is free. Consider that you have a good chance, given some hard work by you, to do considerably better than your parents and that your children have the potential to exceed you. Consider yourself lucky.

You want a city ready made for you - to your specifications? I'll get on that right away.

If you don't like what other people offer, then make your own society - go Amish, go commune, etc. You complain about the fact that you didn't choose the benefits you get - yet on the same hand you also note that you're not prepared to give them up. I don't think that you have much chance to be taken seriously with this complaint so long as you suck from the American civilization tit.

@Dexter: "because if you truly owed nothing to anyone else then you would be walking there... in bare feet and naked (or perhaps, if your really talented, in an animal skin and a sharpened rock in your hand). Are you really this ignorant? Think about it, man."
That would happen if I had not received anything, not because I don't owe anything. The government forces it's services on to me. The only other choice is to live in the wilderness, but I don't want to live in the wilderness. The government forces it's services on to me. I didn't ask for or want those services, so I owe the government nothing. Mayber an analogy would help. Let's say two people were offering you a place to stay. Person A and Person B. You wanted to stay with Person A, so Person B kills person A , so you would have to stay with Person B, or freeze to death outside. While you can be grateful that person B is letting you stay with him, do you really owe him anything?

@Dexter: "If you don't like what other people offer, then make your own society" I will. Once I'm done with High School and College, I want to start an anarchist community, like what Freetown, Christiana did.

There hasn't been a city on earth that hasn't had a municipal government of some kind.

Your views are ill-informed by history.

In addition, since you don't hold any value to the law or our government at any level, your opinions on Proposition 8 have no weight whatsoever. If you believe yourself above the law, then your opinions ABOUT the law have no relevance.

I'd rather discuss this with somebody more rational... you know. Like The Master Warrior. :P

@Jack: Freetown Chrstiana. No government there.

"Once I'm done with High School and College"

So you're going to college. Willing to accept something from society. I think I hear something. Its the sound of the fail-train pulling into the station.

Since you don't want any government services, I'm sure you'd be fine if your dad came back after a drunken binge, and beat you to death. I mean, its not like you would want the government to protect you at all or anything.