Even with the high emotions concerning the outcome of this game, I don't feel what was said in the beginning of this thread was really appropriate. I hope that the mods take some of that into account too.

What do you mean Gobo?
And our response was posted a page or two before. We've taken back all points from the game, and all of one players points so they cannot join new games at current. These will be returned, with a fine, in due course, and hopefully the game will be returned to its last phase to continue.

I mean that there was a lot of name calling and cursing that I feel was inappropriate.

I guess so, and I'm not a fan of it either, but we don't tend to intervene on that. How could we take that into effect anyway?

Well you could take it into consideration when you're making a decision.
Obviously, I'm not a mod myself, but I'd give a civilized argument a lot more consideration than someone who is shouting, cursing and calling names.

Well yes I'm not a fan of it (and I don't think the others are) but one of the things of this forum has been that people can say most of what they want. If we were to start dealing with what people say then it would be a much bigger thing to deal with! How harshly should it be dealt with, who by, etc etc...

Hey all!
OK so here's what happened from my point of view, denis was clearly going to win the game, although saying that he took on 3 players at the same time and won is a bit of a tall tale. Denis requested the pause, i originally didn't want to because he said he would be back in an hour and i didnt have the time,but when he said the phase lengths could be changed i was fine with pausing. The others didn't want a pause because they wanted a cheap victory, so i offered to sit the game for denis, which i know was slightly metagaming but at the point denis's victory was inevitable and i felt that he shouldn't lose out just because some people wouldn't pause, something that has happened to me on this site, so thats why i did it, unfortunately on the turn of the win, all the other players paused, (France,Germany and Italy had already agreed to the pause,England and Turkey were the ones holding out.) and wouldn't unpause, as soon as i saw mods speaking in game i left it to them to sort it out as i had to go offline and i knew the game could wait, since that game i've been on twice i think for very brief periods to do moves for my other game and haven't logged on to denis's account since the game, i would have assumed that he'd change his password when he came back in the hour if he did?
so basically how the pause came about i don't know, i know it wasn't me but i am glad that my name has been slandered and all my points have been taken, happy new year all!
@ denis: why would i have offered to sit for you if i was just going to draw it?a move which would have required coordination with the other players which, proven by the chat log, didn't happen.

@ Mods, which is worse, one player sitting an account in a game he is participating in when the end is already a forgone conclusion or people refusing to pause because one they don't want the other to win?If you feel a punishment is needed then that's ok but it should be the same across the border, there's no point in having mods if there's just going to be favouritism.

Hi Serioussham. This thread has been here for several days, and was around before we took action.
The big question is this: Did you vote to draw whilst logged on as Denis?

If you read above then you will see the answer is no, not that it really matters at this point as it seems that you have already made up your minds. Also about the whole favouritism thing, i notice that denis can still join games despite being as 'guilty' as me and blackening my name. Is there some way to deal with serial unfounded accusation making?seems to me like he's got something to say after every game. Anyways i would appreciate if any future mod contact in relation to this matter is done via PM and that denis would stop name calling.
I play to win and even instigated cancelling of live games with CD's because it's not fun when it's not fair.

I have sent you an email about it, so you can talk to me quite freely. I was just trying to clarify what you are saying.

Well the point is at the time of the draw I was not online so...

Did you vote for the draw Denis?
Did you vote to unpause Denis?

Serioussham sits for Denis so he can have a win,
the game is paused because denis and serious had voted before the sitting arrangement and never un-voted,
Denis comes back, furious that the game is paused, and decides to throw all this garbage at serioussham.

They're both idiots, but I don't think anyone but the other 4 players did anything evil.

Well, this game have a lot of potencial problems that come with the live games:
A) Pauses are not mandatory, aas far as I know, so you can´t force this by changing the phase lenght, and I understand what figle said about trusting the one´s that post on the forum, but it should be done only if every player agrees.
B) Sitting an account on the same game you are playing is at least metagaming and shouldn´t be allowed in any way(as Denis said, he promises to give a survive in exchange for sitting his account, and how will you negotiate with one country to stab the other if he are playing both, so it´s clearly metagaming).
C) At last, using unpause to force a draw shouldn´t be allowed by the mods (we have this discussion before a long time ago).

Rdivera has it.

Those are the issues, none of this "he voted draw from my name" bollocks can be proved.
Every player in that game is guilty of foul play. I say cancel it and dock them points, no one deserves a positive outcome from the game.

The he voted for a draw in my name can be proved beyond reasonable doubt, Geofram.

Missed quotation marks,

(And I'm talking in principle, I don't think it is appropriate to discuss the specific case on the forum at the moment)

re rd:
A) I'm 99% sure the game was already paused when I changed the phase length. The phase length change was to a longer phase, I posted saying I'd done it and would change it back if people opposed.
B) We know, and are trying to find out all the details on it.
C) I had posted in their game's global chat that I was going to forcibly unpause the game if they didn't explain to me why it was paused or unpause themselves.

Geo: As Ghost says the "he voted draw from my name" is the most important bit, and proof of that is probably secure. I've asked Kestas for a couple of other details to help clear up the edges.

If people are still reading this, in my view there are three parts to this:
1) The actual game in question. I accept that the ending of that wasn't great, and that Ghost & I gave two different opinions on the issue at the time didn't help.
Reaction: We're looking into it, and Kestas is going to restore the game to before the draw was called. From there this discussion can continue.

2) The possibility that someone used another's account without permission to do something against their stated will.
Reaction: We took immediate action, are still closing off the issue and all involved will be notified when finished.

3) That this was conducted so publicly. I'm not happy about this, and again I'm a big part of it. I'll try not to comment on accusations on the forum other than to tell people to email the mod address. It does get checked, and we will deal with it as soon as possible.

I won't comment on 2 publicly, but the situation that caused 1 is fair enough.
If we're asked to increase the phase lengths in future do you think we should leave it? The way I see it we increase it when asked, but if people disagree we change it back. In this case I didn't know that Ghost had already spoken on the issue, and I have to admit I should have looked further up.

Thanks for the explanation Figle (specially as you don´t need to explain nothing to me, lol) and Ghost is right, maybe this thread isn´t the best place to discuss this.

imho, I think live games should be treated as second class citizens, for lack of a better term.

The pot is usually low and the game is usually set up with the intention of playing the game within a certain 1-3 hour time block. I know that when I play live games, I would be really agitated if it was moved to a longer phases, because I'm already playing the number of long games I can comfortably handle.

Now, if everyone agrees, the certainly you should change it. But, change it and then see if people complain? At this point, I'd say the game was over, because when will everyone agree to come back? You'll essentially be throwing someone into CD and have to deal with that whole mess. So no, I think that unless you have agreement, you should not interfere.

What is the mod email? Could this be put someplace a little easier to get to? I used to play an online game with a forum, and if you complained on the forum, that was your justice...ie, if you posted it publicly, you didn't get reimbursed. It was done that way to stop people from posting things on the forum. Might that be worthwhile to do?

Perhaps just a large banner at the top that said where to report grievances?

Figle, on a teoretical situation about changing phase lenghts, I think that increasing the phase lenght of a 1 day game to 2 day or even longer to adress some player (or players) problem is no big deal as it can be reversed at any time, but increasing a 5 minute (live game) to a 1 day phase game changes everything on the game and should be unanimous as you probably can´t change it back because the people involved will hardly be online at same time again.
And that´s from someone who really dislike live games (played just one, and get my only CD).

@rdrivera:
I tried a couple live games. Had 3 hours free...figured that would be good. Almost got a CD too. Haven't played one since.

Interesting views. Phase Changes:
When I said change it back, I looked back into the game a couple of minutes later to see if people disagreed. Also as I said, they'd already paused by this point.

Yes, but we are talking for more generalized cases, no?

What about this scenario:

The game is not paused
A player or 2 request an immediate phase extension, which is granted.
Those players leave (because they had something to do, thus the extension)
The other players do not want the extension.
Is it changed back and those players CD? Is it paused, and a 5min game goes into litigation for 2 weeks?

@Figle - I was talking in general, will not discuss this specific game anymore and I am not in any way discussing your actions.
But I think setting some guidelines for mods and for what players can ask/wait from mods will be great to everybody. We have some guidelines for pause/unpause (at least I think we have) and should have some to changing phase lenghts too.

Okay the point is that I wanted a short pause and I was not allowed it so I had serious sit for me I said i'm going for a win once ri returned the game was paused and players logged off thus making it impossible to restart a 5 minute game as the chances of all 7 of us logged on and able to play a 5 minute game are near immpossible.