As for the point of the game... it's a lot like Trouble in Terrorist Town for GMod. Lots of people, gotta figure it out. If anyone's never played, basically you have a group of "terrorists" and among them are "traitors" who have to kill them all. They got some special powers, and can buy more with successful kills. There's also detectives who can investigate.

The role reveals is a tough one. I'm sure there have been extensive number crunchings done on the options, but it seems clear that revealing roles immediately is a very pro-town option. It would be taking away a LOT of info if you didn't know whether you had made a good lynch or not.

I'm in favor of whatever option makes the game most balanced, but I'm afraid I don't know what that is in this case.

Yeah PE where's your analysis, I want to hear your thoughts on the game we just played. Who was awesome? Who was terrible? Why didn't everybody just listen to YJ 4tw?

"condensed guide"
haven't even started im just bein honest
bitches kissin on bitches im just bein honest
/future

I'll get on it while I'm procrastinating for finals.

re: no role reveals -- without it, the town has no concrete info. the coroner thus has to prioritize survival over everything else which creates perverse incentives that distort the hunt

oh I'll announce MVPs now, I can do that much

town: Thucydides -- shot a mafia, had good reads by the end, organized the town which is an important component of successful town play, ezpz pick
mafia: abgemacht -- was the closest thing mafia had to a 'leader' (though the mafia in general was pretty democratic), obviously brought it home at the end, did the most of any mafia player to misdirect the town

No krellin for mafia MVP?

Don't worry, Chaqa, I already nominated him.

krellin was far from the worst player. He needed to reassess his reads when he realized that neither he nor his main townread (abgemacht) were getting shot, but otherwise his play was solid this game. It's easy to rag on the outspoken town players when town loses, because they're typically heavily involved in the result (whether win or lose), and forget that without them driving conversation, the mafia is able to drive the town and get the kills they want and steamroll the town.

@PE: So who do you think was the worst player?

the joker was a pretty bad SK.

God damn it, if one more fool tries to blame me for their apparently poor decision to be a sheep and follow me blindly against their supposed superior wisdom, I'm going to go on a state to state man hunt and shit in ALL your Wheaties!

For having never played mafia before, and not even really grasping what the hell was going on Day 1, I think I faired well enough.

Chaqa...I actually was about to save you until you got beliggerent and told me not to waste my vote....lol So I blame you for me killing you. heh heh. (And I'd do it again! :P)

And Chaqa....come one, man, you were a Vanilla townie that apparently behaved so poorly we couldn't wait to string you up! I'd say that ranks you pretty danged low on the list...lol

I got lynched because I didn't want to lynch anybody, a view which was shared by Thucy, Sevyas, and yebellz, all who analyzed things pretty well. I also got targeted because I was loudly accusing abgemacht (he was my only real suspect on day 1).

Day1, you set yourself apart from the Town, and made yourself a target. You can argue all you want about right or wrongness of the strategy - your behavior called you out as suspicious to the Town, and you were unable to argue your way out of it.

I wise person, a good Town player, would swallow his pride, express his dislike for a thing, but eventually go along with the majority, putting the good of the Town over pride. Your pride, your refusal to back down and join the group, got you killed. Pride caused you to allow yourself to die, and knock the town down by one.

Bad play, period.

Yes, Thucy also disagreed with the policy, but he was much better than you in defending/explaining himself, and even made statements to the effect that he would vote in the end. He didn't in the end, but he at least showed some signs of being willing to acquiesce/compromise to the town majority.

I will point out the CaptainMeMe was lynched for go-against-the-crowd behavior. Who goes against the crowd? Either someone trying to disrupt the process for villainous reasons, or someone stubborn and prideful, who will be difficult to work with.

If a townie is going to mistakenly die, I think it better that an obstinate one go who is unable to adequately express himself...thus...you brought it on yourself, imo.

Oh, I'll comment on that too.

The bloc was a terrible idea. You guys wasted multiple days of lynch voting info, and ensured you would kill off townies by lynching dissenters, because the mafia have no incentive to oppose the bloc. Townies who think the bloc isn't going to catch scum have an incentive to oppose the bloc. It has nothing to do with being stubborn or prideful, nor does it have anything to do with "the greater good."

Related note, if you're a townie and being picked on by the bloc, don't lay down and die! It makes no sense! You KNOW your death would be a misfire for the town. Don't give in!

Related related note, if you're driving the bloc, don't just pick someone and immediately end the turn! You're not gonna catch scum this way.

^

I'd like humbly accept my MVP award by saying a few words

I'm the best innit

krellin, I explained my reasons for no vote clearly. On day 1 there was no information and any vote would be a wild guess. I wasn't willing to do that. Because of this, I was targeted, along with others. My thoughts at that point were that only a mafia would find us suspicious, which is why I said "lynch the anti-lynchers" - it was the first thing that to me was lynchable - lynch someone who was doing something clearly against the towns.

One lesson I'd advise you to remember for the next game is that, just because you don't agree/understand someone else's point of view, don't think they're town. A lot of people disagreed with you throughout the game, and yes, one (meme) was mafia, but the vast majority of those you targeted - myself, Sevyas, Alex, etc., were innocent and just disagreed with you.

If I recall correctly Chaqa got lynched because 1) he was no-lynch and 2) he was a no-name, whereas people didn't want to kill me cause they knew me and thought this would provide info

A no-name? :(
I've been playing on this site for over 3 years, over 500 games, a bunch of tournaments, and I do a lot of organizing games...

No-name :/

fasces was a quiet leader of the block, and krellin discounted the general suspiscion of abge, jus' sayin'

@ Chaqa
"I got lynched because I didn't want to lynch anybody, a view which was shared by Thucy, Sevyas, and yebellz, all who analyzed things pretty well."
Thanks for saying I analyzed things pretty well, but I was against the no-lynch on day 1.

Socrates - I didn't dismiss abge's suspicion. I always suspected him, and given that so any others did I figured he would be the easy last kill - a desert - if it came down to that. Abge's only saving grace was not Abge as much as it is what a horrible person Vash was, with his constent insistence that Fasces was guilty and other things. Just because I wasn't open about my suspicion of abge doesn't mean I didn't trust him. I tried to invetigate him, I voted for him on and off many times.

PE - You say the bloc is a terrible idea...and then you go on to explain how it was misused. lol See the irony. If it was a terrible idea, then the problem wasn't how it was used, as there would be no good use. So fundamentally you agree - the bloc is a tool with uses that were not utilized ; it is not that it is a worthless tool -- this is a significant difference.

the alternative was....radomness, and if you think mafia can't hide just as effectively in randomness, then I *beg* to be mafia next game.

The bloc was an interesting experiment, but I don't like it. Not because I would not see it's potentially positive effects for the townies, but mostly because A) it was mostly not used in a productive way, B) as everyone has a different way of thinking and analysing things, I rarely shared the leaders opinion, what leads to C) when I play mafia, I want to vote for the people I suspect without being suspected for thinking differently than one proclaimed leader ... that's also why I never fully committed to the block

"the alternative was....radomness" ... in hindsight, the block was nothing else than collective randomness ... it could possibly have been more, if used differently, but I don't want to give it another try when I play next - no matter if I am mafia or town.

For the record - I wouldn't try it again, if it make syou all feel better. That said, it wasn't a bad *idea*. It was just **horribly** executed - *NOT* used the first day, and lost most of it's power of surprise after the mafia had a night to discuss it.