That's how I am too Draug but I know that not everyone here is like that.

Well, it is the only way progress works. Debates polarize (see the Presidential debates and how each side then says their candidate won) where as discussions unify through understanding.

@Celtic "@Krellin I didn't say you should." Uhhhh...please....it's implied to you are referring to me, as that is the topic of the OP!!

Yep, but as I previously mentioned. We do have forum members who rather debate then discuss. Hell, anything we talk about on the forums becomes a mud slinging, nasty name calling extravaganza. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to talk without the name calling and stick to the arguments presented.

@Krellin Where did I imply you since I said 2-3 conservatives. I never said Krellin and a few other conservative. I was taking the idea of a debate in another direction. If you took it that way, then there's nothing I can do about that nor care to. Not everything is centered on you.

Yeah, I've had some good discussions on here with Draug, wherein despite our differences of opinion, we've found stuff to agree on. He's a pretty reasonable guy, as long as you don't spell his name wrong.

I admit I too often have approached a debate with "blood in my nose" as it were, looking forward to that moment when I got the other guy on the ropes. They never admit it, but I know when it comes.

Unfortunately that does make it more difficult for me to be 100% open minded in a discussion. In the last few years I've gotten much better at moderating my approach (still have a ways to go, I admit), and the funny thing was that it had several benefits.

1) It's less likely you'll say something stupid when you constantly ask questions instead of putting forth opinions

2) Because others are all to often willing to put forth unfounded opinions, it's a lot easier to pick them apart and drive a stake through the heart of their argument. Gently.

3) The moment you start ranting or insulting somebody is the moment you can no longer gracefully say, "that's a good point, maybe I need to rethink my position." There can be a time to act that way (when you know you've got a particularly recalcitrant opponent cornered and it's time to drive the hammer home, e.g.) but in general it's not a good idea

Civil debate is really fun, and I enjoy my discussions with Draugnar (almost always) and Semck in particular.

@Celtic - the entire thread has been one giant attempt to force a debate between YJ and me. As I am clearly the conservative, you attempt to re-define the proposal and say "2-3 conservative" would imply that includes me - again, since the entire thread is *directed at me*. Yes, you did not directly say my name - but, don't you think everyone here would kind of guess that you are talking abut YJ and I being included in your modified format?

Otherwise, why don't you go create a 2-3 Cons vs. 2-3 Lib discussion thread and attempt what you suggest? By posting it *here*, you are implying you wish the warring parties here to be included...it's *not* that much of a stretch.

YJ I have to say you're no better the Krellin when it comes to name calling. You do it just as much when it comes down to it.

"In the last few years I've gotten much better at moderating my approach..."

Ah...calling names, bringing up unrelated information, and then running off to create "hey krellin" threads is "much better at moderating <your> approach"

Good lord...

@Krellin Honestly didn't even think of creating another thread. Everyone who may be interested in reading here anyways. I never meant to imply your or YJ actually. That's the truth of it.

"YJ I have to say you're no better the Krellin when it comes to name calling. You do it just as much when it comes down to it."

Where krellin is concerned? Absolutely. I haven't chosen to actually respond to any topic he's pretended to pursue in a long time. I freely admit I just like to score cheap shots on him now. It's more fun for me, for reasons I've explained in a few different threads now.

But I like to think I don't do that to people I respect. Draugnar, for example, has political views much in line with krellin's, but I don't have at all the same type of atmosphere in discussions with him, because we have a mutual respect.

Is that more or less accurate?

In other words, krellin attacks everybody who disagrees with him. I only attack krellin.

@Celtic - You know, you generally do seem a reasonable person seeking honest conversation. I would absolutely encourage you to pick a topic and create a thread and then use your calm demeanor to shame the (inevitable) offensive posters in to silence! It would be interesting to see if you could pull it off!

Suggested Topic - Star Trek On-Line vs. Star War the Old Republic....heh heh...

"Where krellin is concerned? Absolutely. I haven't chosen to actually respond to any topic he's pretended to pursue in a long time. I freely admit I just like to score cheap shots on him now. "

And this is the asshole calling me out to debate. Good lord, need I say more?

You're an idiot, YJ. It's so easy to use your own words and your own grossly faulty logic against you, it ceases to be entertaining any longer...

As I said, you couldn't argue your way out of a box...mainly because your too afraid to engage in a conversation and let me beat you down.

@Krellin see I would call it a draw between STO and SWTOR. STO has better space fighting, but SWTOR has an amazing storyline for it's characters. Now if you can combine the 2 that would be either perfection or tears.

Hey krellin, remember when you refused to debate me and then accused me of being afraid to debate you in the same sentence?

That was fun.

You both are better then this. Dislike each other whatever, but you both demean yourselves by the constant name calling.

You said you'd argue with YJ on the forums Krellin. Pick a topic and I'll create a thread. Let's see if you both can keep to facts rather then personal attacks.

"Hey krellin, remember when you refused to debate me and then accused me of being afraid to debate you in the same sentence?

That was fun. "

People....need I say more. The illiterate rears his ugly head again. I didn't refuse to debate him - ****I offered to modify the terms***. But the bully can't negotiate...that is why he is not worthy of my time.

You're pathetic, YJ. Truly.

I'm here ALL the time...MAN UP and debate me when I post....oh, but wait...you *already said* you refuse to engage in discussion with me, but only insult me...

tsk tsk...it's a bitch when your own words are *constantly* used against you and make you look like the fool you are.

Celtic - I am not a paid performed...or an unpaid one, at that. I will - as I always do - comment when and on what I please as my time permits. I don't debate/discuss on command - I thought that would be clear to you by now.

I encouraged you to make a thread. If I like it, I'll be there. And since YJ is my *constant* stalker I'm sure he'll show up.

I'll see you when I see you, CF. Nice try, though.

Ok then take my terms both of you. Pick a topic and let's have a civilized discussion between you 2 on here. Wouldn't you say that's a fair compromise between what the 2 of you want?

@Krellin Fine, but it does appear as if your afraid to face YJ. Not saying you are but just saying that's what it appears to be.

Celtic - Again, nice try. Apparently you have not read this thread, or not comprehended my answers. I have told him I will openly discuss anything on these threads with him - he just fails to have a discussion, which he *openly admits*. I have called him out over and over again, so your suggestion that I am afraid of him is rather ridiculous, if you actually read this thread. That being said, I'm not particularly concerned or influenced by your perception of me, or the perception of others. I'm confident in my beliefs, who I am, etc, and unlike YJ, I don't need a bunch of "+1's" or kudos from mental midgets liek bo-sox to make myself feel good.

All I'm asking is to see you guys have a civilized discussion since neither or you can in any other thread.

Do you really think you can stay civilized with him in any forum conversation and he civilized with you?

CF - See DOMA thread, in which I was having a civilzed discussion with others, and YJ choose to come in guns blazing trying to disrupt and co-opt othes members of the discussion. I'm neither afraid of debate, nor incapable of civilized debate. You are buying in to the arguments of a madman when you pass along YJ's demented suggestions.

@Krellin I do want to point out to you. I think your both in the wrong. YJ created this thread knowing you'd decline. You've made your opinion on this sort of things known before. You both are smart gentlemen I just hope that one day you both can put aside differences and actually talk versus flinging insults at each other.

OK CF, I'll take what your saying, but propose a radically different tack here.

I'll call a truce with krellin and give him a real olive branch: a clean slate. Swear to God, I'll discuss issues with him in the future as if we'd never met before. I'll start right now, if you or he can show me a single thread in his webdip history where he had a lengthy disagreement on a topic of substance that hasn't devolved into him insulting his opposition.

Just one. If you can't find that thread, then I think it speaks for itself that he isn't a person I'd want to try to have a civilized conversation with, yes?

@YJ But in return find one of yourself in the same way. Where you haven't devolved into name calling as well. Fair is fair right?