I know you dont have THIS level of stupidity in Canada, look in the mirror, you have far exceeded it

Anything you say, inbreed.

I haven't read the entire thread, but here's what I think. It's been the company's policy for a long ass time. If you don't like it, then don't work there simple as that. This isn't the company's problem, it's the administration's problem for having loopholes in Obamacare. It's stupid that some people don't see even this much. Obama flopped in healthcare, but hey so did many other Presidents before him. It's a hard ass problem to fix in a country like America

It's when I see fellow Americans have pissy arguements about shit like this that I reluctantly and sadly agree with mapleleaf. That doesnt mean Canadiens arent as stupid, or more stupid, or wahtever, but sometimes, people in America need to realize that they can't create a perfect world in a capitalist country, that they can't create a perfect democracy in the rest of the world, that they can't provide for every single soul in our country to a satisfactory level, and that they need to stop overreacting to everything and making such a big deal out of stuff like this. This is one company. Hobby lobby is not going to influence every other company to not provide contraceptives. Just because the CEO of hobby lobby is a follower of one faith doesn't mean that every other CEO shares that faith. And if you think that Hobby Lobby is the only job that some people can get, and contraceptives are an important issue to those people, then think again, because you're wrong. Even in a hypothetical situation where you'd be right, people need to make a choice: contraceptives, or money to put food on the table. America, and anywhere else in the world, will never be perfect for every single individual ever.

That's a defeatist mentality. Sure, America will never be perfect, but why shouldn't we try to make it the best we possibly can? We don't explain away mass starvation or genocide with "ah well, nothing's perfect." We get mad and try to make things better. This isn't some inconsequential issue, this is denying women something they should be getting because the "religious beliefs" of a corporation are more important than their rights.

Thats realism. Of course we should try to make it as best as we can, but at the same time, we need to realize that we can't make everyone happy all at once.

If the women don't like it, then don't work at Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby has had that policy for a long time. It's not something new. So why didn't people make a big deal out of it earlier?

@ghug,

"This isn't some inconsequential issue, this is denying women something they should be getting because the "religious beliefs" of a corporation are more important than their rights. "

Ignoring the fact that nobody is actually being denied anything, factually, in this case, what "rights" are you saying are at issue here?

"We don't have THIS level of stupidity in Canada."
Corporations are people in Canada too, and the SCOC has been known to occasionally come up with unexpected rulings based on that fact as well........

I was referring to the american level of religious stupidity not corporate personhood, which is global.

Boohoo! I can't get someone else to pay for my birth control so I can go fuck a total stranger in a bar! Boohoo!

If you just had a sensible healthcare system in the first place, this argument wouldn't even be happening.

Aaaaaah.....Lance Corporal Fagnaur U.S.M.C. resorts to slut shaming to validate his bigotry. What a typical simple-minded american goof. lol.

That was cheap, Draugnar, maple is right.

Squirting lighter fluid on the already lit grill. And I don't have a clue what maple wrote. Until he can be more respectful to me, my service to my country, and my country in general, I will keep him muted.

Maple accused you of slut-shaming, which he is right to do, because that's what you were doing. The idea that the only reason anyone would need contraceptives is so that they can have casual sex with strangers is offensive bullshit and you're intelligent enough to realise that, Draug.

"Until he can be more respectful to me, my service to my country, and my country in general, I will keep him muted" Alfred Jodl, before the trap door sprung.

Yes, I slut shamed. And sluttiness applies to men too. But the fact is, if you don't want kids *DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!!* If you don't want to get a venereal disease, *DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!!!!*

Now, I understand that the pill is used for more than birth control. My wife took it for a time do to issues with medically induced menopause (she had a radical hysterectomy as she had uterine cancer). But an IUD and the morning after pill are not used for this additional medical purpose and insurance companies can look at *why* something was prescribed for the patient to decide if it is medically called for or not. Birth control used as birth control is not medically necessary as abstinence still works. Sex ia not a required biological function and, unlike actually having a child, society does not directly benefit from a person having sex that doesn't result in a new life.

Therefore an employer should have every right to cover their employees with a plan that does not include non-medically necessary birth control devices or medications.

The entire concept of a company providing contraception to its workforce seems absurd to me. The company should provide payment, and the employee should use that on whatever they see fit.

^+1 so many times over!

Yes, I slut shamed. And sluttiness applies to men too. But the fact is, if you don't want kids *DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!!* If you don't want to get a venereal disease, *DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!!!!*

This explains SO much. lol.

Isn't it horrible that people enjoy orgasms, mapleleaf? It's 2014. No one practices abstinence anymore.

@ Draugnar: "But the fact is, if you don't want kids *DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!!* If you don't want to get a venereal disease, *DON'T HAVE SEX!!!!!!!!!!*"

Please confirm that you have never had sexual intercourse for any purpose other than in the hope of conceiving a child.

@ Octavious: "The entire concept of a company providing contraception to its workforce seems absurd to me."

They are not, and were not. They were providing health insurance, as many US employers do because the USA does not have a proper healthcare system. Then they decided they wanted, on "religious grounds" to be able to instruct the insurance companies not to provide cover which included contraception - despite the fact that the company also has investments in companies which manufacture contraceptives.

Sorry, meant to address Draug, not mapleleaf.

Regardless, slutshaming is probably one of the lowest things you can legally do, and if you have a problem with me saying that, enjoy retirement because millennials are going to rule your world and every single one of us agrees with what I just said.

"people enjoy orgasms"

What the fuck does that have to do with abstinence? Heard of masturbation, moron?

As far as my sex life, I lost my virginity to my wife. We had plenty of sex amd would have been perfectly happy if it had resulted in a baby or two. So while the purpose of the sex wasn't procreation, the result wasn't something we abhorred the concept of nor something we were trying to avoid.

@Jamie

What's the difference? I see no reason why a company should provide contraception, either directly or via an insurance policy. Health insurance should be there to look after you if you fall into ill health. Anything else, whether it's contraception or weekly deliveries of fruit, is subject to the whim of whoever pays for it. Ideally that would be the employee, but if you insist on having a system where it's the employer then what they say goes. Who cares why they don't like contraception? The important thing is the worker is covered if she breaks a leg.

"Then they decided they wanted, on "religious grounds" to be able to instruct the insurance companies not to provide cover which included contraception - despite the fact that the company also has investments in companies which manufacture contraceptives."

Actually, the insurance only started covering contraceptives as a result of Obama care. Prior to that piece of shit legislation, insurance companies offered plans and many companies used them, that did not cover non-medically necessary contraceptives.

I don't know what you are going on about Hobby Lobby being invested in companies that manufacture contraceptives. Got a ljnk as proof? And not just some editorial that also makes the claim without evidence.

I just looked up this claim. Hobby Lobby isn't invested in these companies; the funds available for their employees to put 401k investments in contain them, but that isn't Hobby Lobby's investments. Stupid argument based on emotion, not fact.

Here is a link: http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/01/investing/hobby-lobby-401k-contraception/

As this CNN article explains, if Hobby Lobby chose, it could provide access only to 401k funds which are not invested in companies that produce contraceptives. Wouldn't that be more consistent with their "biblical principles" ?