I had an idea of why it was bad, but said like this yeah, makes me ashamed of eating meat. I've heard contradicting views on fishing though.

Fishing is fine as long as you don't over fish a given region.

Fishing is completely different than meat ag because meat is farmed, fish typically isn't. If they start farming fish and do it effectively (oversimplified, there's much more to it than that, but you get the idea), we'd be better off.

I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat. It's just that since we as a society eat more than our fair share, and since I can't control my carnivorous brethren's runaway appetites, the best I can do is try to make up for them by having none at all. That's my thinking on it lol.

The fact is every aspect of human life represents consumption. It's just a matter of reducing or eliminating the most harmful forms. To people who say this is impossible , you can't get people do this, I say be damned. It's obvious that it's do or die. So if we have to die trying, at least we tried.

Yeah, totally agree we this.

Aquaculture can be as harmful as other forms of food production, but yes if global fish stocks are fishes at a sustainable rate, much like groundwater, it will theoretically never run out.

Problem is these fish exist in international waters. Yet again, global problem without global coordination.

For example, Senegal, a country I've fallen in love with, is constantly dealing with illegal European fishermen coming to its coasts and overfishing even over the meek government's limits. Why? Multinationals are more powerful than small, poor countries, and the big countries don't give enough of a shit to keep their own people in line just to protect a small African country's coast. Or in the case of Somalia they can't even be bothered to stop illegal toxic waste dumping. Which is the cause of Somali piracy. No man is an island entire of itself.

"Global problems require global coordination, but the economy and political spheres have yet to come out of the 19th century. So here we all are."

This is true for everything from environmental issues to taxation of companies like Apple.

Even if global warming itself is milder than expected, one fact we can see and measure is the melting of ice globally, which is not slowing down. Easy math shows that most of the population of the world will be displaced since most live in coastal cities that will be flooded, and when they move out, they will displace others, and so on...and those numbers of people won't settle on living in refugee camps, even if the rest of the world could support them. There is no economy in the world that could support the infrastructure changes needed to support this change even if it was planned for.

I''m not an alarmist, but I'd like to point out that instead of planning for this change, places by the ocean that rely on tourism (like in the States) are banning publication of what rising sea levels will mean for their area, because all they see is the short term economic loss.

Yes, polar ice melting has happened before on this planet, and, yes, the planet survived. But that's not the point. Sure, some solutions will be developed to help cope, we are an adaptive species, but we're pretty violent and dumb-ass too, and the short term gain we see now by not doing anything will be overshadowed by the huge losses in the future.

Historically, as has been pointed out, many large and small cultures around the world have been wiped out by climate change in the past. The difference this time is that we can see it coming and we can make choices.

"many large and small cultures around the world have been wiped out by climate change in the past"

Funny...how could that EVER have happened without fossil fuels....

With deforestation...

Oh noooooes!!! I just read my delicious hamburger is deeeee-stroying the planet!!!!! Oh noooes!!!!

I'll eat two for you Thucy, since you refuse to do your part.

Thsi part winter was a **bitch**...so I'm all in for meat right now to crank it up a few degrees out thar!

Though I know you're just trolling, attitudes like years really exist. As I said, as the years wear on and more and more lives are claim, those attitudes become increasingly grotesque and tragic. Future generations, if they even have time to study us, will not be kind.

I hope you had fun reading your delicious hamburger.

Actually, Thucy, it is attitudes like yours that are the problem...the gullbile fools that think everything man is doing is literally destroying the planet, etc etc etc. Your background is in what? Literature and philosophy, bet I can tell, with a mild interest in having a farm in your backyard...so every time some scare-monger with a POLITICAL AGENDA comes along telling you how evil you are, you quiver and feel guilty and buy it all hook, line and sinker. It's truly a wonder your heart hasn't exploded, or that you haven't committed suicide in attempt to rid the world of one more human parasite.

" Future generations, if they even have time to study us, will not be kind. "

Yeah...it is exactly this kind of **utterly** ridiculous paranoia that makes reasonable people laugh their asses off at fools like you. You do realize that you are in dire need of emotional therapy, don't you? You do realize that every last thing you percieve as wrong with society, people, the planet, etc, you personally feel guilt for, and are a 100% reactionary human being? I truly feel sorry for you, as you have lost all sense of rational reasoning, and jump fully believing into whatever dire predictions you read. Never do you take a reasoned approach and consider both sides. Yeah...I truly, truly pity you.

So on the one hand, if you're right, poor me for being a vegetarian. What a sucker. On the other hand, if I'm right, good try humanity, you has a good run, maybe try to hang on for a million years and try again later.

K

As long as it's not in his lifetime...

Hey krellin why don't you drive your big ole American SUV up to glacier national park and catch a glimpse of the old boy before it's gone forever? I saw some gorillas at the zoo the other day. That was cool, but not as cool as seeing them in the wild. Maybe I should go see them on a safari before they're completely extirpated from their natural habitat. As long as I'm globe-trekking, I've always wanted to see a wild panda bear. Just don't drink the water... It has lead in it.

Actually, vegetarianism is NOT the healthiest diet. Period. So yes, poor you - you are self-harming...but you get off on that

If you are wrong, on the other hand, peole like you with your desires for oppresive regulation, anti-energy policies, really anti-progress in many ways, do more harm to humanity than good, if you look at the far reaching consequences of limiting access to resources. You are the type that would deny some peasant in Africa a fossil fuel power plant that would greatly enhance their lives becuase you are afraid the planet will explode...that is how perverse people like you are. The sky-rocketing energy costs in this country harm far more people than it helps...but, as you savor suffering like some sort of perverse religious zealot flogging himself for the sins of the world, you are intentionally oblivious to this.

Krellin you are the most disgusting output of the Industrial Age of all. A completely ignorant animal that is paradoxically gifted with the ability of self-awareness. And yet the lowly squirrel is more cognizant of its place in the ecosystem than you, in his own way.

Actually Africans could double their environmental impact. It would be a drop in the bucket compared to what less than half as many Americans somehow manage to belch out every day.

It's one thing not to think about the environment too much or be too poor to care. That's far more forgiveable than an ass like you that actually relishes in destroying our actual home. You're like a child than loves his messy room and rolls around in his own shit. Relishing every second like the dumb beast you are.

Ahhh...and there it is again...the utter hypocrisy of the left. It's OK is the poor Africans pollute...after all, we have such low expectations of them anyway (wink wink)

good boy, Thucy - you never fail to disappoint.

Thucy - I assure you, I am far more informed about issues than you could hope to be, and I have a far greater ability to rationally interpret data than fearful, quivering reactionary fools like you who - by your own admission - is fully motivated in all things to overcompensate for the sins of your youth, to which you still, deep inside, clutch to such feelings and must fight against them. You admit to living under a constant shadow of self-loathing, and in your attempt to single-handedly save the world, you cast your personal guilt upon every other *white* man you can find....(pitying the poor non-whites around you, whom are excused in any and all poor behavior, in your bigortry of low-expecations).

You are

truly one of the most bigoted, most narrow-minded, ill-informed fools I've ever had the displeasure of having to constantly mock.

"That's far more forgiveable than an ass like you that actually relishes in destroying our actual home."

Please tell me, very specifically, where I have ever advocated "destroying my home".

You are such a reactionary, bigotted, judgemental, ill-informed jackass.

On the contrary, you fucking moron, I'm quite fond of clean air, clean water, cheap and clean energy. Unlike morons like you, I actually understand far more behind the science of energy, for example, than you can even hope to - not because you are incapable of understanding, but simply because to inform yourself with facts would mean that you must put aside your (religious) zealotry that drives all your current behaviors. First and foremost, you stand against all things progress, any man that makes a profit is automatically evil in your eyes, and out to do harm. You distrust everything...and yet in all ways, you demand the things you hate be to source (financially) to solve all yoru problems. You hate government, but demand that it be large and authoritarian and control the people. In almost all things, you contradict yourself...

I pity you your sorrowful life, full of fear and guilt. I pity you most of all for your extreme, hate-filled bigotry.

You should be ashamed of yourself for putting your own base interests ahead of everyone else's and the future generations, including your own children. You deserve the misery you're bringing on this world, but they do not. You're blind and prideful.

You live on earth. You live off the land. We all do. And yet you don't take environmentalism seriously. You're a blind animal.