Steephie22, I think you misunderstood. I actually agree with you. By social issue I mean it should just be up to individuals to decide what they want to believe and what they don't want to believe. My apologies for the wrong choice of word.

So.... care to move the partisan debates to another thread? Lol.

Look, I see it from both sides here. Yes it is sensible to move to Virginia. But sensible to whom, exactly? My bank account, some of you have said.

Getting this openly personal about what I do with my own time and money is a bit against my general guidelines of behavior, but my choices don't make much sense otherwise.

Essentially I am not planning to live rich. Whatever my salary may be. I think it's probably for that reason that I'm fairly ambivalent about making more money. I am willing and even desirous of accruing some savings and holding them for emergencies and whatnot, but overall I would be living the same lifestyle, just one would be a town that I already know is boring, because I've already lived there.

Just for those who don't know Williamsburg is 100% composed of students at William and Mary, their professors and the peripheral economy, and white retirees.

To be fair to all those groups, I met a number of kind, interesting, and worthy people there, in each category.

But I don't know what to tell you. I value experiences over power or money.

I know how that sounds. I know I know I know. It doesn't change it being true.

I am still moving forward with the application process on the off-chance they reject me and make this decision for me. But I am, I must admit, having a hard time seeing myself making this move.

My personality is one that creates long-term plans and follows through on them years after the fact.

Example: I devised the plan to go to the Peace Corps, grad school and then a career as the last three steps of my personal progression when I was 16 years old. Six years later I am still aiming in that direction and don't foresee me changing my mind.

The reason I mention is just to say that I know myself and have a pretty good feel for what I will and won't regret I think.

I'm not saying those of you asking me to take the job have shitty arguments, just that the specific argument of "you will be making a better choice for your future" is thin for me.

Why is that? Well, because I'm not really planning to have a permanent career job at this stage of my life. And what of possibly starting a family, or that sort of thing? Same story - I have put a rather low priority on that goal. I'm prepared to never marry, never settle down in that respect.

As I said I've chosen voluntary poverty... fully aware that this isn't the most sexually attractive lifestyle to potential spouses.

So anyway. We can stop talking about me now. I'm only slightly closer to a decision. Thanks for all the input.

This may not be the decision that does it, but if you keep on this money-don't-matter-man! path before you know it you'll be in your 30s with no career, no time to start one, little to no chance at a comfortable retirement, no family (meaning no one to care about you in old age), and no way to go back and do things different. It very well could be the case that the specific move to Virginia isn't what's right for you. But your attitude is going to doom you if you don't change things.

Doom me to what, exactly? It's not like I haven't thought about the scenario you describe.

I'm more than prepared to live meagerly, I already do. I don't really believe in retirement anyway, it's kind of a weird modern concept.

I don't know what to tell you Invictus, I already know you think I'm misguided.

Also, what exactly does "no time to start a career" even mean? Presuming I don't "start my career" until, say, age 33, doesn't that give me roughly 30-40 years to work at getting my career going? lol. I don't understand what you mean.

"I don't really believe in retirement anyway, it's kind of a weird modern concept. "

It's only a wierd modern concept because modern people live longer, well beyond what they can possibly work. You need to plan for the time when you won't be able to earn a living any more.

"I don't really believe in retirement anyway, it's kind of a weird modern concept. "

I don't believe in death, it's over-rated. If heaven was so good why don't Christians believe in euthanasia?

Okay yes, that makes sense Draugnar, and that's fine. But

1) there are low-grade jobs you can do at almost any age barring serious disability (which is kind of a problem separate from old age)

2) that's not what people are usually talking about when they talk about "retirement". Of course I will save money to use later in my life. But I'm not interested in retiring from the business of engaging with the world, attempting to earn a living, and living at a low standard of living.

I don't want this friendly advice to descend into a shouting match, so let me say that I am not trying to be judgmental nor am I unwelcoming of your advice, on the contrary I greatly appreciate it.

I'm just trying to express that I have a pretty different vision for my own life's future and what a good life constitutes than most people I know, my age or not, and that if giving me advice, you should be aware of that difference.

You're of course welcome to try to talk me out of my entire belief system, but god knows that's been tried! Lol.

Doom you to that scenario. I don't think you really realize how shitty your life can be.

One of the greatest things about being in a fraternity in college is that you get to become very close friends with guys quite a bit older than you. Two who were in their fifth year my freshman year were almost clones of you. Now they're 28 or something and have been treading water the whole time at shit jobs unrelated to their majors. One lives at home, and both are unhappy, obviously. Sure, the year in South America must have been a blast, but that eats your seed corn for a more secure future. It's the height of irresponsibility for you to turn this job down.

As for retirement, you'll have a different opinion at 64.

What is it that makes them unhappy though? The fact that they work at a job unrelated to their major in college? Newflash, there are billions of people who are happy and have never even been to college, and work those same jobs, lol.

I don't think planning to save half of my excess income is the heigh of irresponsibility, do you?

As for retirement, how do you know? I've talked to older people about this and heard a similar divide in opinions that I do from my young peers, there seems to be a difference in outlook on life rather than an actual difference in physical position.

Thucy,

It's not like we're all cold, calculative egotistical idiots who never had a dream. I read chemistry in a very good school, because I thought it "mattered" more than what would have been intellectually much less challenging subjects such as finance, law, etc.. I don't regret having studied chemistry with that whim of idealism and dream (yay, molecules, cool, what do they do? wow, a medicine, how do I make that? etc) in my decision, but I'm also happy that I made some sensible choices after graduating that allow me a more and more comfortable lifestyle and more prospects of a job than ... say had I done a literature major.

The thing is, I believe you did live the dream to a large extent (you spent time in Africa didn't you) and now there's somebody who wakes you up and says "look, I got this really cool thing for you. It'll be different, but satisfying in a wholly different way, and you say no no no, this dreaming works fine for me, I'm gonna keep doing that for a while longer. Retirement is an outdated concept.

Yeah. I think that first doing what you did, studying something that matters, going to Africa and then getting a good job IS the dream, whereas trying to stay in that "young-feel-good" mode is the illusion. You pick yourself. I'm a few years older than Invictus I think, so you got two people who have progressed a little further, but not so much as to forget how they progressed, and we're telling you not only is it stupid, it is... I dunno... like walking into a wall just to know how it feels.

What would you say, by the way, to the equally large legions of people who, upon hearing about my plans, at their age of 40 or 50-ish look at me with jealousy in their eyes and say "do it, I wish I had."?

There are of course adults who judge such a choice, as you are doing, but it's far from a settled wisdom that it's unwise to do what you want with your life and not what some amorphous culturally constructed version of common sense advises.

PS had to throw in culturally constructed to get you ranting about liberal arts majors real quick lol

"1) there are low-grade jobs you can do at almost any age barring serious disability (which is kind of a problem separate from old age)"

Really? when you have alzhiemers or dementia, tell me how you are going to remember what to do on your job or even where your job is at. whne you can no longer walk because your joints are so swollen and stiffened up or you can no longer see because of cataracts or hear because you have nerve damage in your ear or react in a timely fashion because your reaction times are greatly reduced... tell me how you will go about doing most jobs or even drivie a car to get there.

I have an 85 year old mother-in-law in better health than most 85 year olds I know and even she can't work and earn a living. Those "disabilites" are not separate from age, they are a result of the aging process.

Just do me a favor and don't go n public assistance when you have nothing saved and can no longer care for yourself. I don't want my niec and nephew or their future kids to be burdened with your irresponsibility.

Let them have a conversation with their 40 or 50ish peers who did "live the dream" and who will look them jealously in the eye and say, dang, a nice house, a woman who's nice to you and a car that doesn't break down. I wish I had all that. REGRETTING is what 40 or 50 year olds do, because they can't run so fast anymore. Go to Virginia you blatant moron.

When you're shut away in a Medicaid nursing home sharing a room with five other old men and no one to visit you, remember what people were telling you here. And for the twenty or thirty years before that, when you're working at Target despite your education and your supervisor is young enough to be your daughter, remember what people were telling you here.

You have a terrific opportunity and you want to throw it away. That's fucking stupid. If you keep making misguided choices like that you'll deserve the unhappy, unfulfilled life you end up with. I hope you come to your senses.

Alzheimers/dementia = disability

"Just do me a favor and don't go n public assistance when you have nothing saved and can no longer care for yourself. I don't want my niec and nephew or their future kids to be burdened with your irresponsibility."

lol, social security won't exist when i'm 75.

"Go to Virginia you blatant moron"

..."I don't want this friendly advice to descend into a shouting match, so let me say that I am not trying to be judgmental nor am I unwelcoming of your advice"

Anyway, to you redhouse I say this:

What does "dream" mean? Because for me it means following the path you believe in and being willing to give up comforts to do so. I've already told you a comfortable life is not one I seek. I don't know if you guys think I'm kidding or what, lol.

Living a dream means actually living it, not dipping your toe in between the ages of 20 and 22. It means you make it real, and make it a part of your life.

For more than six years now I have been foreseeing myself and planning on giving up creature comforts, safety nets, and high incomes for the sake of my beliefs and my happiness. To me this is the meaning of a dream.

I am not so misguided as to not understand what these things mean... reiterating what I already know isn't going to change anything.

What you guys seem to have forgotten is that even if I take this job in Virginia, I will be quitting within a year or two and moving on with my plan, I can't mark time forever. It would never be more than a means to an end, frankly.

So I'm not 100% sure what most of you are getting at with the talk of "you're going to end up with nothing, no job, no family, etc."

It's a risk I'm willing to take, quite frankly. Sometimes in life you have to take a shot knowing you might miss. I'm think I'm mentally healthy enough to find happiness even if I do fail in my aims, though. That's what is probably generating what to you seems like me being blasé.

You guys are aware what career path I am aiming for... right?

Looks like you don't really want advice, just confirmation. I for one can't give that to you. I wish you the best, but if you don't go to Virginia I think you're making a huge mistake. Unfortunately, you probably won't realize that until it's too late.

"When you're shut away in a Medicaid nursing home sharing a room with five other old men and no one to visit you, remember what people were telling you here. And for the twenty or thirty years before that, when you're working at Target despite your education and your supervisor is young enough to be your daughter, remember what people were telling you here."

The difference between you and me Invictus is that while what you describe is not what I would voluntarily choose, it also need not be the hell you seem to believe it would be. Why is working at Target the end of life as you know it?

Ecclesiastes:

"Whoever loves money never has enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income. This too is meaningless.

As goods increase, so do those who consume them. And what benefit are they to the owners except to feast their eyes on them?

**The sleep of a laborer is sweet, whether they eat little or much, but as for the rich, their abundance permits them no sleep.**

I have seen a grievous evil under the sun: wealth hoarded to the harm of its owners,
or wealth lost through some misfortune, so that when they have children there is nothing left for them to inherit.

**Everyone comes naked from their mother’s womb, and as everyone comes, so they depart.** They take nothing from their toil that they can carry in their hands.

This too is a grievous evil: As everyone comes, so they depart, and what do they gain,
since they toil for the wind?

All their days they eat in darkness, with great frustration, affliction and anger.

This is what I have observed to be good: that it is appropriate for a person to eat, to drink and to find satisfaction in their toilsome labor under the sun during the few days of life God has given them—for this is their lot. Moreover, when God gives someone wealth and possessions, and the ability to enjoy them, to accept their lot and be happy in their toil—this is a gift of God. They seldom reflect on the days of their life, because God keeps them occupied with gladness of heart."

"Looks like you don't really want advice, just confirmation. I for one can't give that to you. I wish you the best, but if you don't go to Virginia I think you're making a huge mistake. Unfortunately, you probably won't realize that until it's too late."

On the contrary despite your increasingly condescending tone I am indeed looking for advice, because it may be wisest yet to take the high salary to save money more quickly and move ahead with my travels and other plans sooner and with greater security. I said as much earlier in the thread, and it holds true.

Only people who aren't poor think being poor is fun.

I'm sorry, did I say "being poor is fun."?

Lol.

"What would you say, by the way, to the equally large legions of people who, upon hearing about my plans, at their age of 40 or 50-ish look at me with jealousy in their eyes and say "do it, I wish I had."?"

I would say "bye, bye, imaginary people." as most of them are in your hed and any that actually do exist are at the bottom right now any how. I defy you to find me as many eople with degress makign a good living in their chosen field who will tell you "go for it" as you have people on here telling you to grow up and be a responsible adult.

Draug get off the phone and find a keyword you're ranting.

Actually, I'm typing in sleep deprivation mode...

You must think being poor is fun if you're choosing to be poor rather than make 40k right out of college. My nepotism job this past year didn't even pay that.

Okay here are the people I can think of:

My orthodontist. My church's music director (who by the way dropped everything in the middle of his life to live in Kazakhstan a year afterward). Three of my mother's teacher friends. My ex-girlfriend's dad who works as an aerospace engineer in Ohio. My friend's dad who works as a nurse in an emergency room. My college course advisor. My international relations professor. My grandmother's best friend (age 88). My dad's boss at a chemical engineering software company. My dad's best friend, who is a retired pilot (who also dropped everything in his 50s to work on a hospital ship that sailed around Africa).

I don't know what to tell you. These are just the people whose names I know. I'm not really trying to prove anything by this since these are just random people without any special kind of authority over any other person, but you seemed to doubt what I said - what I said was true.

Invictus, I don't know if you didn't read it earlier, but even if I take the 40k job I won't be living large, I'll be squirreling it all away and using it on better things than myself. And I wouldn't be working there very long.

I'm aware it's uncommonly good pay, lol, believe me. I haven't seen anything near as large before or since in my various job searches.

Squirreling it away is what you should do!

"I'm aware it's uncommonly good pay, lol, believe me. I haven't seen anything near as large before or since in my various job searches."

You're really not. You really don't have the life experience to know the significance of the offer that's being made to you and to fully appreciate the magnitude of the decision you're taking. If you were, you wouldn't be saying stupid stuff like:

"I'm sorry, did I say "being poor is fun."?

Lol."

to people who are genuinely offering help.

You need to start to gain an appreciation for what kind of decision this is and not just what it will "feel like."