I'm confident there are several ways to estimate it. The one I read was to run a 5K, sprint the last minute or two, and then add 5. I did that, but only sprinted for 30 seconds, got my HR up to 192 or 193, so I figure my max HR is ~200. I'm going to give this method another try or two in the next month or so, to see if Inget similar results.

An 8:52 at mile 15 is awesome, next time try to extend that fast finish the rest of the way - really open up your stride and try to hit 10K pace, even if you don't get the same splits, that effort on tired legs will pay big dividends after mile 20. The half marathon will also be a good indicator of where you are in your training. Set yourself a realistic but still somewhat fast goal and try to run negative splits. Judging by your run today, running sub-9:30s is probably not too far out of the question.

Finished my first 20 today of my fall training cycle, a very hard and hilly 16 at 7:45 followed by a 4 mile cooldown at 8:15. Longest run since I blew up in my 50K 6 weeks ago, so really my longest run in probably over two months and I felt it. I had lots of little "niggles" and tiny stitches from mile 10 on plus some shoulder soreness, which usually happens when I carry a hand bottle. I'm happy with the results though, even though I was shooting for a 7:30 overall pace, humidity was high and the hills were pretty taxing from mile 10 on.

Even though it sounds crazy, I like using hills as a good place to make up time as well as grabbing a bit of a breather, especially on the bigger ones. Good excuse to slow down and catch your breath, then really hit the downhills hard, but not out of control.

Ran my first race today. It was a 10K. It's a super fast course, losing almost 400 feet of elevation. I was excited to break 55 minutes, and wondered if I could even break 50 minutes with that kind of elevation change! It's like I was back in Seattle at WAC Con: Dumbass!! :-(

I'll spare the details. It actually wasn't bad, especially since I was viewing it as a mere training run rather than a race, but I honestly did expect to run much faster... Sometimes there's nothing like a big piece of humble pie to get you to refocus...

10K Progression To Date:

June 29th: 59:32 (splits: 9:05, 9:12, 9:19, 9:37, 10:22, 9:49, 9:28)
July 6th: 59:11 (splits: 9:58, 9:40, 9:32, 9:33, 9:27, 9:12, 8:24)
July 24th: 57:59 (splits: 8:32, 9:00, 9:06, 9:47, 9:58, 9:53, 8:06)
July 31st: 56:43 (splits: 9:11, 8:59, 9:07, 9:11, 9:03, 9:24, 8:36)
Aug. 14th: 55:35 (splits: 8:02, 9:04, 8:57, 9:14, 9:18, 9:06, 8:53)
Sept. 15th: 55:14 (splits: 8:52, 8:56, 9:01, 8:55, 8:46, 8:48, 8:48)

You had pretty much even splits for the race, which is awesome, especially for your first "official" race. Its always easy to get caught up in the excitement and go out too fast, but it looks like you ran smart, except for that 9:01 at mile 3 - I'm guessing there was a hill or a porta potty involved - but even splits are an accomplishment in itself.

In other news, I actually placed in a race for the first time on Saturday at a local 20K trail race, despite stopping for about 90 seconds around mile 5 to fix a contact that was shredded by a branch on a blind turn on trail. Luckily, the contact took the brunt of the branch, otherwise I would have had a scratched cornea on a course with no support aside from some gallon jugs of water set up on tables. I kept the torn contact in my eye for the remainder of the race, which kept my depth perception but I didn't have much side-to-side vision. I ended up making up about 2 minutes over the middle four miles on the guy in third, reeled him in over the last 5K, and took third place.

Pretty rough 18 miler today, which disappointing after how well the 16 miler went two weeks ago... I hit the half marathon point at about a 10:20/mile pace, and walked the rest of the way, nearly five miles, finishing with an 11:30/mile pace overall...

Sometimes my left femur gets compacted into my hip socket, which happened last week, my chiropractor yanked it out Thursday afternoon, less than 48 hours before my 18 mile "run", which gave me all the excuse I needed to walk at the end, pretty sad how quickly and tightly I latched on to an easy out...

Had a five mile run on the schedule for today, but I was feeling good, and still a little bitter about Saturday, so I stretched it to a 10K to see how I'd do:

10K Progression To Date:

June 29th: 59:32 (splits: 9:05, 9:12, 9:19, 9:37, 10:22, 9:49, 9:28)
July 6th: 59:11 (splits: 9:58, 9:40, 9:32, 9:33, 9:27, 9:12, 8:24)
July 24th: 57:59 (splits: 8:32, 9:00, 9:06, 9:47, 9:58, 9:53, 8:06)
July 31st: 56:43 (splits: 9:11, 8:59, 9:07, 9:11, 9:03, 9:24, 8:36)
Aug. 14th: 55:35 (splits: 8:02, 9:04, 8:57, 9:14, 9:18, 9:06, 8:53)
Sept. 15th: 55:14 (splits: 8:52, 8:56, 9:01, 8:55, 8:46, 8:48, 8:48)
Sept. 23rd: 52:59 (splits: 8:49, 8:42, 8:31, 8:33, 8:47, 7:56, 7:47)

One of the lessons I learned early on is that its better to stick with your schedule and not try to make up for a "bad" run. Doing a 10K instead of 5 miles is no big deal, especially since you killed it, but its a bad idea to go out and try to do another long run a few days after a failed attempt just because you're bitter or angry you didn't do well. Better for you to move on and try again next time. I always think of it as getting a bad run out of the way so you have less of a chance of having one on race day.

Excellent progress, now you're running :-)

Thanks for the tip, 2WL, and, yes, Nigee, I actually felt like I was running a bit, "attacking" the track even, at least for me (it's all relative)!! ;-)

This morning I did an aerobic profile test on a treadmill with breathing tube... My resting lactic acid was a bit high, 2.5 (supposed to be 0.5 - 1.5), which may indicate I wasn't very well rested (likely due to that 10K Monday night that I pushed so hard doing)... Also, during the test, lactic acid levels were a bit high the entire time, suggesting my base fitness is a bit lacking (meaning I have not done enough "slow" runs)... My max lactic acid was 14.3, 4 minute post lactate was 5.9, meaning my clearance rate was 8.4 (clearance rate should be at least 1.0, so this seems good)...

For my age, VO2max:
Average: 28-38
Good: 39-45
Excellent: >45
Elite: 60-80

My VO2max was 50.7

Not sure what all the stuff means, but I'm re-reading Daniels' Running Formula in an attempt to make sense of it all...

At this point, my big question is how much I focus on base fitness (running long distances at a HR of 125-145) versus running long distances at a goal pace... For instance, I have a 14 mile run this Saturday, do I stick to a HR of 145 max for at least the first 90 minutes, or do as I had planned before my aerobic profile and try to run at a 9:30-9:45/mile pace (likely with a HR in the 160s, close to my "best case" marathon race pace, and also close to my lactic acid threshold of 168-172)?!?!

I decided I should focus on base fitness with my 14 mile run today. The plan was to max out with a heart rate of 140bpm, and hopefully finish in about 2.5 hours. I have music that I've been training to so I can run at a rate of 150 strides per minute, but trying to keep my heart rate down with that many strides proved difficult. My form was all out of whack, but I was hell bent on base fitness, so I took fewer than 150 strides per minute and tried to find some sort of rhythm. After three miles or so my left knee had seriously sharp pains in it with every stride! I tried to walk it off, while drinking a bottle of Gatorade, and gave the slow jog another try. More pain. Done! Called it quits for the day...

Figure I can try my 14 mile run again tomorrow. I want to build a bit if base, but with the marathon four weeks away, this is no time to be screwing with my stride and form. Tomorrow I forget about my magical 140bpm heart rate and I'll just focus on running as relaxed and comfortably as I can while maintaining my stride at 150 strides per minute. Here's hoping it goes better tomorrow, especial with my 20 mile run only one week away...

More knee pain this morning...

The goal for my scheduled 14 mile run today was to get my HR around 140 for 2.5 hours... So, I walked on a treadmill at the gym for 2.5 hours, and got my heart rate in the mid to upper 130's for about 2.25 hours... And I watched the Vikings beat Pittsburgh in the process, playing in London no less, so I'll take it!

Good source for deciphering VO2 max:

http://www.runhilaryrun.ca/Images/LA_TH_VO2.pdf

To put your VO2 into perspective, Lance Armstrong's doped up systems had a VO2 max of 83.8 and the top elite marathoners are right around 78-79.

Hmmm, I wonder what the average VO2 max is for overweight people that run slowly...

I'm guessing about 50.7

My "knee pain" was a sharp pain in my patella tendon... I've been icing like crazy and will buy a band to wrap around my tendon tomorrow... We'll see how far I get on my 20 mile run this Saturday, hopefully I want have to quit and resort to the elliptical to finish my workout...

Hmmm, my tendons suck, have ruptured both Achilles', hope my patellas are a bit stronger and can survive this insanity...

Yesterday I decided to give the 20 mile run on the schedule a go. I warmed up real well, and tried to think positively, but after getting a 10K under my belt, my knee started hurting pretty bad... No sharp pain this time, so that was good, but I shut it down for the day, and think I'll stay away from the track until race day.

Instead of the track, I'm going to only use an elliptical, to do my heart rate training and make sure my heart is in shape for the race, and I'll just have to see how long/well my body can handle race day and do what I got to do. I'll walk the whole thing if I have to, that was my worst-case scenario when I signed up for it, I was just assuming I wouldn't have to resort to that.

So, I still wanted to simulate a 20 mile run, at least for my heart. I got to the gym this morning 30 minutes before the Bengals and Patriots kicked off. It took about 15 minutes to get my HR into the 140's, and then I kept it in the 140's and 150's for 3.5 hours after that. 3.5 hours would be a 20 mile run at a 10:30/mile pace, so I figured that was close enough, and called it a day (well after the Bengals/Patriots game was over)...

The local running store has Ask The Experts on Tuesday nights, a physical therapist comes in. So, this past Tuesday, I figured I'd go see what they say about my knee. After twisting and turning it, watching me walk, etc., the determination is a meniscus issue of some sort... Hmmm...

The next morning, Wednesday, I had an appointment with my chiropractor, who specializes in chiropractic neurology. First off, he finds that the left side of my body is seriously weak, which typically indicates a structural issue on my right side, which was odd, since my left knee has been the issue. But, when checking my spine, he found that one of my vertebra, fifth from the bottom, was a bit out of alignment on the right side, so he adjusted that guy, and I "lit up like a Christmas tree", my strength was back! Then, he checked my knee, and found that my tibia was out of alignment at my knee, so he adjusted that, and said I should go test it. I have Wednesdays off these days, so I went straight to the track!

On Saturday, October 5th, I gave my 20 mile run a shot, but my knee pain was too much and I had to stop after a 10K. This is how slow that 10K was:

Oct. 5th: 1:05:44 (splits: 9:32, 10:17, 10:11, 11:04, 10:35, 11:16, 12:39)

When I started running on Wednesday, I didn't really know how far I'd run or how fast. I had an 8 mile run on the schedule, but I thought if I was feeling good, I'd try to run a fast 10K, partially because I haven't run hard for a few weeks. After one mile in, and feeling pretty good, I decided to see if I could break a 54 minute 10K. After 3 miles, I thought I'd try to PR in the 10K. Please keep in mind, for the first 4-5 miles at least, my heart rate was pretty much identical on Saturday as it was on Wednesday, it was just a matter of my vertebra being out, which caused a lack of strength, and my tibia being out of alignment at my knee:

Oct. 9th: 52:48 (splits: 9:11, 8:41, 8:37, 8:18, 8:23, 7:59, 7:39)

I as a bit sore afterwards, since I hadn't actually run a track much the last two weeks, but I was pretty excited to be able to PR in the 10K with an hour or two of my adjustment!!

Today I had a 12 mile run on the schedule, but figured I'd do a half marathon, since I hadn't run much on the track lately. My first goal was to run it at a 9:00/mile pace. My secondary goal was to run it in less than 2 hours. My third goal was to just run the 13.1 miles without stopping:

Oct. 12th (13.1 miles): 2:00:28 (splits: 9:03, 9:01, 8:56, 9:05, 9:17, 9:24, 9:49, 9:29, 9:33, 9:56, 8:59, 8:42, 8:25, 8:04)

I tried to keep my HR in the mid 160's, but after an hour I had it in the lower 170's, and for the last three miles (where I was running faster than a 9 minute mile, I think my HR was in the upper 170's and lower 180's. I partially wanted to learn how long my body could handle those types of HRs these days. I think for race day I will focus on keeping my HR in the 150's, especially for the first 20 miles. I don't mind my HR creeping up at the end of a run, but I can only manage a really high HR (anything 170 or more) for three miles at the most... We shall see, but I'm starting to get a little excited for race day, two weeks from tomorrow!

All this running must be losing you weight and body fat, your overall shape must have changed a bit since you started.
I like fact that you're finishing well, that's a good sign of mental strength as well as increased stamina.
Congrats on what has been a great preparation and it sounds like the chiropractor has come up trumps also.
Good luck for the run, hope all goes well.

The first ten weeks after registering, I lost 22 pounds. The last eight weeks I have lost a pound or two at most, since I haven't been watching what I'm eating very closely, and I've been eating more, especially on long run days, but I have lost 1.5 inches from my waist these last eight weeks. I had a goal to lose 32 pounds overall, to get down to the weight I was summer before my senior year of high school, so I suppose I should focus on my diet a bit more these last two weeks and at least get to within 5 pounds of that, 27 pounds lost overall.

The finishing well comes at a price, my HR gets into the 180s, so it's not something I can maintain for more than 15 or 20 minutes at most. Seems like whatever pace I start my runs at, that my pace gets slower and slower as I go, so for my half marathon yesterday I decided to start at a fast pace for me, 9:00/mile pace, and see how long I could hold it. That turned out to be too fast, as far as a trial of what I should do when running the marathon, but that's exactly what I wanted to find out.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement, this thread has helped to keep me motivated and accountable during my training, which was the point!

The big day is Sunday, I'll start in roughly 64 hours! As my runs wind down, I've been trying to dial in a race pace. Saturday I ran an 8 miler at around a 10:00 mile. Tuesday I ran a 3 miler at a 9:45 mile and HR in the 140s. Wednesday I ran a 4 miler at 9:15 mile with HR around 160. I think a 160 HR is just too high for me, for 26.2 miles, I need to shoot for 155, I think. Ultimately I'd like to go faster than a 10:00 mile for the marathon, but I'm going to see if I can't give a 9:30 or 9:45 pace a go. Ultimately it will come down to my HR, I suppose. Figure I'll do the first half with a 155 HR, the next 7 miles around 160-165, and the final 10K around 170-172 beats per minute. My lactate threshold is supposedly somewhere around 168-172, though that test was at least a month ago, so I'm hoping by now it's closer to the 172, we'll see.

Oh, I also had a goal of cutting 31.7 pounds, to get down to 205 for race day. I'm down to 210.2, which is 26.5 pounds lost, so I'm hoping to at least get under 210 by race day and call it good, I can cut the rest during basketball season.

Good luck for Sunday, hopefully the crowd will carry you along a bit, metaphysically speaking. Plenty of pasta on Saturday night and don't forget the Vaseline.

I can't wait to hear about it. Good luck!

Oh, I believe you have netflix from our talks previously, something I do before every marathon is watch the documentary "spirit of the marathon" it's been on Netflix streaming for a long time and is an awesome movie. Check it out one of these nights pre-race.

Best of luck with the Marathon, sounds like you are pretty well prepared!

Good luck Marx! Don't forget to eat breakfast and poop.

Especially poop. ALWAYS poop before a long run.

But seriously, good luck MadMarx.

Thanks guys!

I've heard it can take 18-24 hours for your body to utilize the carbs in pasta, so I will be loading up at lunch today and having a lighter supper. I think I'll watch Spirit of the Marathon this morning (thanks for the suggestion!) and hope The Ducks give me inspiration tonight by beating up UCLA! As far as pooping, I do that first thing when I get out of bed, so I'll be light as a feather come race time, lol!!

Good thing UCLA got trounced earlier, eh?

Best of luck, I am sure you will do incredibly well!

Dude where is the race report? If you are who I think you are you crushed it.