Getting upset at players who continue to play after an early CD is like blaming the designer of mobile homes for tornadoes.

I disagree. Taking advantage of a CD hurts not only the player who didn't show up but everyone else as well. At WebDip we should make it clear that players are expected to cancel if an unfair situation arises.

@Brankl: Caveat emptor

An unfair situation? Great. I look forward to demanding a cancel every time I get Germany. It's so unfair that I have to play as my weakest country when others don't.

I love this site, but online Dip players are kind of wimpy.

@OB_Gyn_Kenobi I understand that players needed to take the possibility of a CD into account when they join, but there should be a way out for players who don't want to play unfair games besides going into CD themselves. Otherwise no one will want to play here.

Join high quality, PWd games and CD are almost a non issue. If you want to have your own CD policy, feel free to start a game with a group of people that share your ideals. Don't try to force your opinion on everyone, especially when it goes against the rules of the game.

Asking for a fair game does not make someone a wimp. Playing different countries is part of the game, while civil disorder isn't.

Civil Disorders *are* part of the game. Read. The. Rules.

I think the way out is on the implementation list. We've got Reliability Ratings now. I hope sooner than later we'll have a filter which requires a certain RR to join a public game.

I agree, cancel in all unfair situations. Next time I'm paired with superior players and/or inferior players, I'll just CD.

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/rulebooks/2000AH4th.pdf

Page 18.

CDs are in the rules precisely because face-to-face Diplomacy games require a significant time commitment by participants. But sometimes real life gets in the way. You could easily be 3 hours into a FTF game and then someone gets a call for some family emergency so they have to abandon the game. The other players might want to stick it out since they are so invested into the current game.

Now, that doesn't necessarily translate into a turn 1 CD by someone who is a flake or who just doesn't like Germany. That's why many people here, myself included, advocate punishing the offender by forcing a draw *after* that person is gone so they get a defeat on their record.

In F2F you may have spent 3 hours, but there are games I've spent 3 *months* on? Why should an ending be forced upon me because one person couldn't or didn't want to play any more?

You guys are right, civil disorder is in the rules. I still don't think that makes it ok for one player to take advantage of the situation if others want to quit.

To be clear I'm all for 7 players coming up with their own custom rules to be bound by for a game. I think that's great. People should be able to play how they like. But they shouldn't be able to force their odd CD notions on everyone.

What's the difference between a late game CD and a player who either:

a) Only allies with one person and refuses to stab
b) Is a complete pawn while the other player eats up his/her centers
c) Tries to actively throw the game out of spite

Three common scenarios that are more annoying than a CD, yet you wouldn't think twice about canceling when faced with a bad player.

I'd argue the CD is the best of those because with a CD there is a mechanism for replacing the player.

I'm not saying that I want to force my opinions during games. I am saying that I don't think it's okay to take advantage of a CD if others object.

To clarify my OP was about 1901 CD. Mid-game and it's just a really bad (or really good reality). But 1901 means that some countries start off with an unbearably strnger start and in a no-press game there isn't much in the way the others can do to prevent a solo. For example a Russia CD in 1901 gives turkey nearly unhindered access to Rum and Sev ( as he will most undoubtedly have Black sea) a english CD gives france an easy crop to add to his already easy crop in Iberia. German CD is pro-french and very much a french benefit. CD France is an italian/german dream and turns italy into france in terms of early unopposed centers. Austria CD and Italy CD may be the least impactful. If Italy CD then austria benefts by not having to fight west, but so does turkey for not having much contention in the med, and france does as well because no need to defend south for a few years. Austria CD is a toss up between Russia, Turkey, and Italy. Really whoever can grab more.

"But 1901 means that some countries start off with an unbearably strnger start and in a no-press game there isn't much in the way the others can do to prevent a solo."

I'm not too against canceling in 1901 as no one has really put any effort into the game yet. I do not understand this reasoning, though. Do people not look at the board?

If England CDs then the only person who can slow down France is Germany (maybe Italy). Russia therefore should leave Germany alonr. If France solo's its just as much because of England as it is the rest of the board for not bothering to compensate.

Perhaps an "If CD, then automatic Draw" *option* would be warranted. That way you know what you sign on for, especially for live games. Better have a good connection...

@abge: Sometimes newbie gunboaters don't get it.

Abge- while thats true, it almost never happens. England CD and (remember I am talking about a GB) italy still has to feel comfortable enough to his east to move west and germany is the only real counter. If every player is mindful of the CD then yes that works but even more skilled players will sometimes choose their own defense and growth over countering a world threat. Thats reality as well, some countries would rather maintain their own defense than get bogged down in long and terrible conflicts to prevent something world threatening. People always take the easy way out.

Sure, but that's a choice they make. That's my only point. Everyone knows the CD has occured. If someone makes better use of it than others, that's just because they are a better player.

You're also right that GB is different. That isn't diplomacy.

At the risk of sounding gushing (and way too late), abge, ditto.

I will say this and move on:

A CD doesn't mean that it's going to lead to a solo. I'd say I'd rather have a CD occur across the board from me than to have an ignorant player beside me that won't listen to reason and see his "ally" is going to use him to kill me and then knife him in the back later on.

In the event of a CD, you have to find a way to use it to your advantage, even when the advantage you get out of it isn't a handful of easy centers. If someone else is grabbing the easy dots, you have to use your diplomatic skill to get others around that guy to see the threat he is quickly becoming and to ally with you and turn against him.

If your diplomacy is good enough, the CD won't end your game. If your game ends from someone CDing, then chances are, your diplomacy failed long before that player quit.

This is a game where mechanics change, and each player must adapt to whatever situations arise, be it every ally you have turns on you in one season and you go from king of the hill to public enemy number 1, or your ally conveniently leaves his border unchecked and you're camped next to 4 empty centers belonging to him.

You work to make the most of whatever hand you're dealt.

@Tru- I 100% agree. But I am talking directly about GB (which is the most common live game type) and in GB there isn't a way to point out anything. you just have to hope the other players are as adept as you. which is unlikely.

I don't have experience with live games, let alone GB live. I do know that the liklihood of a CD in live games increases, so it's probably just something you'll have to come to grips with or limit the duration of live games.

My heart does go out to people that play live games and encounter these issues. I think it's cheap when people play live games for the express purpose of playing to the CD knowing it happens a lot in live games. To that end, I totally agree with where you're coming from.

But for full-press 1-day phases or greater, the CD at the veteran level is very slim and I have far less sympathy when a CD occurs.