I like your thinking, Semck.

It's probably not about guns so much as it is just about culture and general average intelligence of a population. I mean, I am fairly certain that the community I live in has gun ownership rates similar to the US on average. However, there has never once in the history of my town been a murder.

It's ridiculous and frustrating.

The lack of acknowledgement of a problem is the worst.

Lando - I would say it is clear cut that people shouldn't shoot other people. Just like they shouldn't stab them with knives, set them on fire, or poison them with items that are toxic when ingested but do no harm when used properly. I don't see why that means it is clear cut that no one should be allowed to own a gun just like I think it would be stupid to outlaw cars, pools, matches, knives, and toxic chemical products.

Sorry, guns aren't harmful when used correctly? Care to explain what exactly this peaceful purpose is?

There are interesting points here, and I'll try to address them later. Right now I have to go meet my advisor, but one quick point:

So in the last 35 years, the US murder rate has gone down over 50%. So there is and was a problem, and it is actually being slowly fixed. It's just much slower than we'd like. (Of course, fixing it more might take more corrective steps, though my bet is much more on trying to address the urban nightmare than guns).

Ever hear of a shooting range? And of course hunting is harmful to animals but not humans if done properly. Deterrence would be another non-harmful proper use.

"The US of A is by far the most negative influence on this world and on human culture."

Hahahahahahahahaha... Good one! *slaps knee*

Wait, you are joking right??? Please tell me you're joking...

It hasn't been a joke for the lifetime of every single WebDip member. The U.S. are merchants and purveyors of suffering, death, and impossible hopes and dreams. A culture of willfully blind jingoism. In two hundred years, Bin Laden will be recognized as the founding father of the United States.

When the Muslims take over.

I wouldn't go that far... the US is still, you know, kinda OK. We sure as crap ain't #1, but we're much better than the middle of the road, as nations go. Hardly a claim to fame, but I can think of a lot of places I'd be grateful I don't live in in comparison.

The United States is a beautiful country with a lot of cool people.

Okay?

The United States is, by such a wide margin that it's hilarious to consider, the most benevolent superpower in the history of the world.

And yes, it does tons of stuff it shouldn't.

Uhhhh no.

Semck, that's not exactly the highest standard to hold it to.

No, it's not. But it's a relevant one.

Sweden is considered by many to be a better global citizen than the US. (I don't especially agree, but let's defer that to another decade and assume it's true). Sweden could not, even if it wanted to, cause all that much of a stir or a problem on the world stage. The US could cause chaos and destruction of a magnitude never before seen.

It is therefore at least relevant to compare the US to other countries that had the *ability* to act badly in the ways that it does. The fact that it acts far, far better than any of them is (I claim) a highly laudable fact. That doesn't, of course, mean that it's OK for us to interfere in all the ways we do (or, arguably, not to interfere in all the ways we don't); we should work to improve those things. But it is a relevant and important comparison.

On tonight's Entertainment Tonight they got a psychology expert to say that extreme video game playing (14 hours per day of WoW) was a warning sign of the guy going to go and kill. I guess he didn't have the friends to blame it on D&D.

Of course it's a warning sign, Randomizer. Eight or ten people in a decade, out of 12 million users, is a correlation no scientist could ignore. Only attending a high school in America is a more concerning warning sign for snapping and going on a murderous rampage.

"How about both sides compromise: Republicans agree to more restrictive gun control if Democrats agree to have voter ID's. Seems fair to me..."

That didn't stop voter fraud in Arizona where there is a picture ID law when a Republican voter was arrested for voting in Arizona and Colorado for the same election.

Being the most benevolent superpower in the world is approximately as impressive as being the least racist Klansman in Mississippi.

Murdering women, children, and other non-combatants(ie. bugsplat), and claiming benevolence at the same time, stretches the imagination.

Look up: JINGOISM

"The United States is, by such a wide margin that it's hilarious to consider, the most benevolent superpower in the history of the world."

Semck being a superpower is not a badge of honour you buffoon, to an intelligent person this is a slight. Have you been swayed by the 2 words super & power?

Nigee, I didn't say that being a superpower was a badge of honor. Try rereading my post. Nowhere do I argue that America's power constitutes a moral good or an honor.

@Yellowjacket,

That's kind of my point, though, isn't it? The US is in a class of countries that have traditionally behaved very very badly. It behaves badly, but it behaves so much better than the others that it approaches mind-boggling. My claim is that this is highly noteworthy. How people behave when they have overwhelming power says much. Few behave well -- you're right -- but that just says something about people and power. Some behave much better than others. That says something about them.

Now maybe you'd say, "Well we shouldn't be a superpower at all." Maybe you're right. But I doubt you argue that way outside this specific context. I imagine, for example, that when it comes to discussions of science funding and engineering, you're eager for the US to maintain its traditional edge.

Who are these OTHER superpowers?

There's really only one.....

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

@semck

Tu quoque, mi fili?

The entire argument is a distraction whereby you convolve two distinct elements.

1) The USA does horrible shit.
2) The USA is a superpower.

You just put them together to say, "For a superpower, the USA's horrible shit isn't so bad," which serves the sole purpose of distracting from the fact that the USA does, indeed, do horrible shit.

I don't think it's at all remarkable, and it just another poor example lending creedence to the wrongheaded belief many Americans have that we don't need to change anything because we're #1 already. So while your statement may be true, the sentiment lying in wait behind it requires closer examination.

The horrible shit we do does NOT deserve to be mitigated by adding the superpower modifier. We should stop doing horrible shit, period.

Bump.

Can we name a country who's made more of an effort to be moral than the U.S.?

Canada--

They have to have at least ten times the effort just to make up for mapleleaf alone!

Can we name a country that does more effort to be moral than the USA?

You can't be serious, can you?

The Vatican?