Just to make sure those interested didn't miss this post, last one on Page 2:

Yep, 180!! The instructor was about 5'-6" tall and probably weighed 120 lbs. soaking wet, while I'm 6'-2" tall and nearly 230 lbs. The instructor did say it is more difficult hitting that step count the taller you are.

Here's the website for Good Form Running: http://www.goodformrunning.com/

It goes over the four steps on that site, and better yet, it has a 60 second video at the top left side of the site that covers nearly everything we discussed in class. There is another video underneath that one, it's 3 or 4 minutes long, and it has a guy analyzing the running technique of athletes running at the Olymipcs in Greece. It's really helpful stuff, especially for a running n00b like me! :-)

PS - It's very clear to me the elliptical will not help me with 180 foot strikes per minute. Tomorrow I think I'll hit the track again, start figuring out my natural foot strikes per minute and a strategy to increase it significantly, but not until after another class I signed up for called Strength Training for Runners. I will figure out this damn running thing or die trying!

Hey, I have a general running question:

I want to be able to run 5 miles in 40 minutes (8 minute miles). Should I start with 5 miles and try to trim myself down to 40 minutes, or start with shorter distances and work on maintaining 8-minute paces for shorter distances, gradually working my way up to 5 miles?

Furthermore, is it a good habit to use outside cues as measuring sticks for my pace?For example, my playlist is roughly 8 minutes. Should I condition myself to run one mile during one playing for the playlist, or is it a bad habit to pace myself using an outside resource?

Gunfighter - do both. If you want a speed and time goal, combine endurance and speed training. One day, run your 5 mile distance. The next, work on maintaining your goal pace or faster as long as you can. If you can only hold that pace for 3 miles, for example, start off at an easy pace for a few minutes to warm up, then accelerate to your goal pace and maintain as long as you can, and finish up with a cool down jog. Stretch afterward.

Pacing is a tougher issue. IMO, its easier to know distance markers than to use the audio playlist, but its personal preference. I have dozens of running routes from my apartment, most of which end up being a round number because I'm anal about my mileage, so I don't have to keep checking my GPS for my distance unless I'm running a new route or checking my pace. It's easiest to set up a 5 mile route that starts and finishes at home so you can compare times over multiple runs and chart progress.

July 13th: Weight - 227.4 lbs
July 13th: 5 miles in 47 minutes 17 seconds (splits: 9:23, 9:13, 9:15, 9:45, 9:42)

Interesting day. With a bit of thought, I decided to go with 2WL's advice of not worrying about cadence. After all, the class I took was called Good Form Running, and it was not for n00bs like me, so I can see cadence being extremely important for veteran runners, but for me I'd focus on posture, mid-foot and lean. I was really pleased, I actually felt like a runner the first couple miles today, and one great sign was that my cell phone was not swinging violently back and forth in my pocket as I ran, it sort of just gently bobbed up and down! Our instructor suggested incorporating our new Good Form at a pace of maybe 5 minutes at a time, since it will use a little bit different set of muscles, so I am going to blame this on why my splits for miles 4 and 5 were much worse, I think my muscles will just need a little time to get retrained, especially with my *entire* body being sore from that crazy Strength Training for Runners class I took Thursday night, that just about did me in.

Anyway, I stuck with Hal Higdon's schedule of a fallback week and only running 5 miles today, especially being sore and focusing on the Good Form, and I'm already a bit nervous about my biggest (by far!) challenge of my training to date, next Saturday's 9 mile run... or should I say jog, here I come 10+ minute mile pace!! ;-)

Sounds like a good workout, and pretty good splits too. You're probably right about the new form (and strength training) tiring you out at the end. Keep it up!

And yeah, take it really easy on those long runs. I had a terrible habit of pushing my long runs too hard when I trained for a marathon a couple of years ago, I ended up pulling a muscle on a long run and it made my last 5 weeks of training pretty rough.

Thanks 2WL. That's what I was thinking but I wanted a second opinion from someone who knows (or pretends to know haha) what they're talking about.

Had a 20 scheduled for today, only ended up doing a very hilly 14 after stopping in two different portajohns and two different trees. Whatever I ate yesterday (spicy pork burrito for lunch, plus a handful of G&Ts last night...ugh) didn't sit well. Let this be a lesson for any prospective marathoners or distance runners...learn to bring toilet paper or be content with leaves or a sock.

Bumping this for insanity. I started doing sprint workouts with some friends and recently hit 20.83 mph. Did this the morning after a 10 mile run with the wife.

Also recently broke 190 lbs for the 1st time in quite awhile. MadMarx keep us updated! I hope you don't mind me posting about my workouts, I think I agree that having people interested in your workouts helps!

Things have been a real struggle since attempting to incorporate Good Form Running... Pre-Good Form, I ran 10K's in 59:33 (6/29) and 59:11 (7/6). The first 10K of my 9 mile run yesterday, attempting to pace myself, took 1:05:50, and I was completely exhausted (with ~3 miles left to go). I ended up walk at least a mile of the last three, and mentally I was completely overwhelmed. At the 90 minute mark, which was the maximum time I had hoped I could run 9 miles (for a 10:00 mile pace), I had been walking for some time but got the motivation to attempt to cling to a pace of under 11 minutes a mile, so I ran the last 10 minutes relatively hard (at least for being exhausted). Ended up finishing in 98:58, RunKeeper giving me a pace of 10:59 per mile.

Anyway, glad I have over 3 months to fine tune my approach! There are a number of small things I plan to tweak for this upcoming Saturday's 10 mile run, and even though I know I'm not supposed to be racing myself, I (stubbornly) have a goal to run this 10 miles faster than I completed 9 miles yesterday. Also, think I'll run Hal's prescribed 3 miles on the track Monday night, rather than do the elliptical for an hour, and Wednesday morning I may try another 10K/6.22 mile run rather than Hal's prescribed 5 miles, which may not be too smart, but I'm getting a little desperate to find some sort of groove with this new Good Form (hopefully, eventually, practice makes "perfect").

One overall positive note is that I signed up for the marathon 6 weeks ago today, and I have lost 12 pounds, and am confident my overall health is much improved, which was one of my main goals through this process. Also, when I signed up, my worst-case scenario involved taking 7 hours to wak the entire course, so I'm hoping to focus on accepting some sort of middle-ground goal that doesn't expect myself to run a sub 4 hour marathon, especially on a relatively difficult/hilly course... I'd really like to do it in at least a 10min./mile pace (though ideally 9:59min./mile!), which would be ~4:22:00, but even that is seeming like an impossibility at the moment... Suppose I should default to Hal's advice, in that with my first marathon, my one and only goal should be to cross the finish line, I'm just having trouble accepting that approach just yet...

Honestly? Do what works for you- Especially on longer runs if you want to finish strong. Keep on working, it only gets easier =D

I'll second Higdon's advice. First marathon is a learning experience. Your mission #1 is to finish, plain and simple. Run, walk, or crawl, whatever you need to do, to drag your body 26.2 miles. It's a learning experience. After the race, you have plenty of time to evaluate your performance and your technique and determine areas of improvement and how you can better yourself for the next race.

Bottom line is that you are the only one who knows whats best for you. Listen to your body.

I am pleased that I'm not really sore from those 9 miles yesterday, especially since the first 3 mile run I did after trying the Good Form left me aching all over, especially my back and calves/Achilles'... Or does that just mean I didn't push myself hard enough?! Regardless, I am banking on things getting easier, I'm just not overly optimistic about how much easier things will get, and certainly it won't get nearly as "easy" as I would like... I suppose nothing worth doing is easy, it's just difficult to remember that in the middle of a long run that is kicking your butt!

I remember my first 10K walk/run (you are already 3 miles beyond my distance and you run, I walk). It was tough because I had done all my wlaking on a indoor track in a nice climate controlled environment. Going up and down hills and on and off curbs in downtown Cincinnati in the heat was a far, far tougher walk than that which I had ever walked.

Keep up the good work, MM. I'm routing for you!

Thanks for the encouragement, all, it's much appreciated, and a bit more helpful/needed than I would have guessed/hoped! :-)

Went back to the track tonight, wanting a better last memory than what Saturday left me. I was only scheduled to run 3 miles, but I was secretly hoping to break into the 25 minute range, but it was not meant to be, I hit 26:00 on the nose, 8:40/mile, but that's still a PR, I'll take it! My splits were: 8:46, 8:56 & 8:17. HEY, that adds up to 25:59, guess I ran just a bit more than 3 miles in 26 minutes and I hit my random goal for today (albeit for a mere 3 miles), that's cool!!

Of course, now I'm thinking I will run a sub 58:00 10K Wednesday morning, and a sub 10:00 min./mile 10 mile run on Saturday (knock on wood)... Will I never learn?!?!

PS - I especially enjoyed how Draug, the computer guy, says he's "routing" for me, lol!

Rooting. Small typo or possibly an autocorrect. But I am d00d. Go do it.

How do you route for another player? The race organizers already set the route. No mroe changes. Seems a bit difficult to me :P

Sure, but you could plan routes for another person's practice runs. Or, if you are doing a cross country car race, the routes may not be set and you need a navigator to plan a good route that is quick but mostly cop free.

10K Progression To Date:

June 29th: 59:32 (splits: 9:05, 9:12, 9:19, 9:37, 10:22, 9:49, 9:28)
July 6th: 59:11 (splits: 9:58, 9:40, 9:32, 9:33, 9:27, 9:12, 8:24)
July 24th: 57:59 (splits: 8:32, 9:00, 9:06, 9:47, 9:58, 9:53, 8:06)

I know, I failed the "Negative Splits" test miserably today, but after my 26:00 3 mile run on Monday, the McMillan Running Calculator said I could run a 10K at a 9 minute mile pace and I wanted to push for that and see what would happen, and I didn't want to start out so slow I could never catch up. After my 10K today, that Calculator says I can run a Half Marathon at a 9:52 mile pace, so we'll see if I can actually run my 10 miles this Saturday at a 10:00 mile pace. That said, I think I'm just going to attempt to run fairly comfortably, and take a water break every 3 miles or so, which will include a bit of walking. I did that today, walked for about 30 seconds after 3 miles while I drank some water, it was nice, and I will walk through aid stations during the marathon, so I might as well get used to that routine, especially if it will make things a bit more tolerable.

July 27th: Weight - 223.0 lbs
July 27th: 10 miles in 1:38:37 (9:52/mile)

Splits: 9:45, 9:49, 10:17, 9:40, 9:37, 10:09, 9:59, 10:17, 9:49, 9:18

My hope was to run this 10 miles faster than last week's 9 miles, which I did in 1:38:58. My official goal, however, was to do it in at least 100 minutes, for a 10 minute mile pace (last week was 11 minute mile pace). Next, I figured I should take a water break at least every 30 minutes, and I wanted my water breaks spaced evenly, so I figured a water break every 25 minutes would break my run up into four segments. So, my first water break came during mile 3, I probably walked at least 30 strides, and you can see that my mile 3 split was a bit worse than the first or second mile. My second water break came at the beginning of mile 6, again resulting in a slower split. I actually took a quick water break during mile 7, and also my longer/scheduled water break during mile 8, and ran the last two miles or so without any more breaks/walking. Overall, a very successful outing, especially after last Saturday's disappointment.

Pretty good splits, great finish, and your overall time shows a lot of improvement. Nicely done!

Interesting thread. Having done a few half marathons in my time and training for the London Marathon next year this is my advice.
Ride the course on a bike and it will mentally prepare you for what you will face on the day, especially any uphill or downhill sections, also familiarise yourself with landmarks that you can use in the race as little markers as to the progress you have made. Also find out where half-way is, once you are past that point you are on your way home.
Distance running is as much about mental strength as physical strength, especially when things start to hurt a bit, your brain starts telling you to stop because it it trying to preserve your body, you learn to override these common sense suggestions with guts and willpower and determination.
Good luck, no pain no gain,

"Distance running is as much about mental strength as physical strength"

I can't emphasize this enough. This past weekend I ran the Great Cranberry Island 50K in Maine. The entire race took place on Great Cranberry Island, which is off Bar Harbor in Acadia Nat. Park on a 2.5 mile road. The entire race involves eight full back-and-forth circuits of the road with turnarounds at each end. I've been focused on this race since I ran it last summer and I wanted to come back strong this year with a big PR, especially after I beat my 50K time last summer in a longer race this spring by about a half hour.

Needless to say, I hit the wall early and hard. In retrospect, I went out too quickly and hit the halfway point right at 2 hours, running just under an 8 minute pace. Then the heat hit me. The race started at 11:30 AM (which gives runners time to catch a ferry to the island), so there is hardly any shade for most of the race with the sun directly overhead. I started cramping up worse than I have ever cramped in my life - starting with BOTH my hip flexors and slowly moving down into my hamstrings and calves. The first time I stopped to stretch was at mile 18 and I had never thought more seriously about dropping out of a race before in my life. With a half marathon to go, however, I just put my head down (figuratively, since you'll cramp if you run with your head down) and shuffled on for three and a half more hours in what turned out to be the worst and best race I've ever run. The last mile and a half was sheer bliss, even though I couldn't physically take a full stride or else I would cramp up, but the finish was that much sweeter knowing that I pushed through the worst pain and cramps I had ever experienced and didn't quit.

Then I got pretty drunk. Good day, all in all.

Thanks for your thoughts, Nigee!

2WL, I have had my struggles, and will continue to, it's nice to know a veteran runner like yourself has bad days as well... Sorry things didn't go how you had hoped, but I *really* appreciated you sharing, it's extremely encouraging (and enlightening) in its own way! :-)

July 29th: Weight - 221.6 lbs
July 29th: 3 miles in 25:12 (8:24/mile)

Splits: 8:32, 8:27, 8:13

I have a good friend who has just won the Great Red Run, a 250km run across the Simpson Desert in Australia, in 6 days, they do daily stages. Guess what, she is female, way to go Jess Baker, a truly awesome woman !!

Sorry, www.bigredrun.com.au

10K Progression To Date:

June 29th: 59:32 (splits: 9:05, 9:12, 9:19, 9:37, 10:22, 9:49, 9:28)
July 6th: 59:11 (splits: 9:58, 9:40, 9:32, 9:33, 9:27, 9:12, 8:24)
July 24th: 57:59 (splits: 8:32, 9:00, 9:06, 9:47, 9:58, 9:53, 8:06)
July 31st: 56:43 (splits: 9:11, 8:59, 9:07, 9:11, 9:03, 9:24, 8:36)

After today's run I went to the chiropractor. Needed an adjustment near the base of my neck, in the middle of my back, and my femur was jambed into my hip socket... Hmmm...