PS - I was joking about trying to help you all resolve the issue.

Lol. Whatever.

I have no idea why you want to make this about me - what have I ever done to you apart from maybe a few poor-taste jokes. The problem in this game was the NMR-borderline CD from France, not me. 5 players voted to cancel. I did not want to carry on - I told the game director this, he could have replaced me if he wanted to.

I don't encourage CDs for no reason. I am not a CDer - there is no need to paint me as some bad example for the general population. Your line of attack here is silly and odd.

I may not have met you in person like you have done with your now-pals abgemacht, Babak, and Thucydides but that doesn't mean you should treat me with any less respect here. I really don't see any reason for you to feel the need to wade in here with odd remarks and carry on and on this personal tangent.

5 players voting cancel is not 7 players voting cancel. So, you decide to take the law into your own hands, be judge jury and executioner? If everyone doesn't agree with you, then you walk away? Your opinion is more important than *anyone* else's? It all sounds a bit egotistical and entitled to me.

"the law into your own hands, be judge jury and executioner? [...] Your opinion is more important than *anyone* else's? It all sounds a bit egotistical and entitled to me."

And *that* sounds hypocritical to me.

Let he cast the first stone.

LOL, the more I know someone, the more I'm willing to insult them, just ask Babak!! ;-)

Does disagreeing equate to disrespecting? Seems to me that would only be the case if the person feeling disrespected assumed he was 100% right and nobody in the workd should disagree, which, again, is a bit arrogant...

Anyway, I have no active games so I was checking out some forum posts and this one got my attention, but I'll leave it alone now. Good night.

No. You're not just 'disagreeing' with me though are you? You know very well that the way you went about this was malicious.

You don't know me at all.

Anyway, I'll let you crawl back in to your coffin. Have a good night. :)

Sarg, my comments aren't really about you, it's about what you did, you went CD, and on purpose. I hate that, but I hate the sin, not the sinner.

Wow, you rise early, an hour ago you went to bed! No rest for the wicked, I suppose.

MM: The game was a sin before my own (which I have already admitted and apologised for, to the players with sportsmanship). Eden-Lando-Czech-Jmeyers-twa-Vaft-Barn3tt, all these *top class* gunboaters follow the same policy as me with regards to cancelling/drawing games if they are tainted by an NMR/CD before 1903 ends. When you say "Sarg's policy" you imply this is a figment of my imagination or fantasy ego-land. I walked away from the game because the 2 players forcing the game to continue were unsportsmanlike in my eyes. I would have that right online or sat down at a table - and actually, if anything, your reliance on the 'real life' situation works more to my favour: do you honestly think that if this game had been round a table that 5 players voting to cancel would have been forced to play on by the 2 profiting players? No, it would not have.

It's all good. You've sinned, admitted it, apologized. I wish that meant you wouldn't do it again, but it's clear you would in a heart-beat, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, and thanks for the additional information on the situation, it's a complicated topic that is interesting to contemplate, even if, after all is said and done, you still do the wrong thing. :-P

I just can't help myself.

My solution to this complicated topic is simple, i don't play gunboat :p
For future reference you should make sure everyone knows these are understood 'house rules' that you play by. (haven't been following all of this in detail, but the principle is, resolve your argument before it happens by making sure everyone knows what is expected of them - thus no 'sin' need be committed)

@orathaic: Absolutely right. I had presumed that all the players would respect the core trend when really I should have had it confirmed, especially with the newer players involved.

I asked DILK to describe his NMR we still don't know what has happened.

Sarg: I must agree with dipperdon, what is the black and white rule for cancelling after an NMR. France was already losing, clearly, he didn't deserve to save any points. He was not losing because of his NMR. If he, just for example, NMRs on purpose before 03, to save points and we cancel automatically, then what will prevent us in the future, to use this tactic? Everytime I get Italy in a high pot game, I'll just NMR intentionally, because I know you guys will cancel?

Your "system" of automatic cancelling just creates a bad habit, an unsustainable trend which theoretically can lead to every gunboat will be cancelled.

Also: your choice of CDing also prevented england and germany of showing we will draw after france is out, and have a 6way draw with a punished user for his NMR. You took away that choice from us, and you blame us being unsportmsmanlike. My objective was to draw after France is out, but I coludn't tell it to anyone because of ongoing gunboat discussion rules.

England's and my Draw vote right after France was defeated is a clear proof I guess. You have a house rule of cancelling, I have a house rule of punishing the NMRing one. None of them is above the other one.

Cancelling before 03 is a stupis rule, some players can achive/lost a lot in 3 years, and those who have achived something don't deserve to get nothing. Those who lost a lot don't deserve to save all their points.

I still think implementing reliability rating is the good solution, but until, I will not join a tradition which leads to more NMRs/Cancels than ever before.

"Eden-Lando-Czech-Jmeyers-twa-Vaft-Barn3tt, all these *top class* gunboaters follow the same policy as me with regards to cancelling/drawing games if they are tainted by an NMR/CD before 1903 ends."

Don't speak for other people please. Every game and situation is different. I will usually keep a cancel up in a live game forever. In this one, I likely would not have voted anything.

Yeah, I felt that coming - especially as I put your name in there. Oh well. I'll just fuck off right now and leave you to it.

I hate Czech's stupid arbitrary rule anyhow. He hides behind it and thinks it makes him infallible. Games can be ruined at any point, but if he voted cancel until 1903, he has no guilt on his conscience.

Sarg - also, don't be a hypocrite gameID=86899 ( recent example)

Tons of your wins have come through CDs...

That's a live game. For fuck's sake, please read my other comments before thinking you can judge me. I'm not a hypocrite - my comments here have been specifically about high-pot passworded games. That is very clear - have you even bothered to read this thread?

I really hate coming on this website when all people want to do is bitch.

Most of it, enjoyed reading through the arguments. Wonder why people want to come on this thread and bitch?

Yes exactly. Please read the thread.

Because it was a crap game, Lando. But I enjoy your implication. Thank you, yet again.

Sorry guys. I haven't read through the entire thread, but last week one of my best friends fathers died and I neglected to make moves in a whole plethora of games for a few days.

Also that was an absurdly effective gunboat alliance from England and Germany.

A very entertaining thread. Sargmacher, please don't play in any games I start, OK? That's a good boy.

After my NMR I doubt I shall be invited to another of these games.

I guess it will depend on the host of the game. Personally I will NOT invite any of the 3 of you, who NMRed/CDed into my NEXT game. But I think it would be just an overreaction to ban anyone from my future games. I guess we have all learned something, some of us took some consequences as well.

My objective is to have clean and fair games, as much as we can have, and people have to learn there are consequences of an NMR. But certainly not forever. Dilk, Sarg, Czech I gladly welcome you in my 2nd next game which I'll host ;)

Sarg, do you long for the time when an ignorant soul like myself was merely poking fun at you, rather than these newly found expert witnesses exposing such incriminating facts?

MM, people like you and me take it in our stride. I don't see much flak though - Lando blows a lot of a hot air but it's all just work-stress. If DipperDon (or anyone else) is posting again, then thankfully I've edited their hateful spirits out of my life ;)

@DILK: That is totally understandable. And I will be glad to play with you again.

I'm glad for the interchange of discussion here - I think any next games in this 'high-end' series should at least clarify their positions on what do to in such an occasion. The only reason this has become such a debate is that it's never happened before - and so we had never discussed how we would deal with it. It's all about communication.