Plus, if you have your armies in the right positions, Gas should be easy to destroy the following year. Think of it as this then - the outcome would have been the same if Germany had ordered his army to move to Gas

Back to rants...
Carmen. In 3 . WTF?

@ Putin33

I'm not a racist. I don't hate anyone but liberals, terrorists, and illegal immigrants.

And BTW, I don't know about my buddies, but I can pass the citizenship test.

"but I can pass the citizenship test."

All you reactionaries that fail should be deported en masse. Stop ruining the country with your wingnut politics. We're not in the 1300s anymore. Thanks.

TMW is still a weak troll. 0/10.

@Putin: hate to tell you this, but forward retreats don't happen all the time to me. It happened once in one of my first games (not first ever, but I was rusty). I pulled off forward retreats a couple times after that. But ever since I got enough experience to get into games with good players, I don't see forward retreats.

Just sayin'.

It's a bad rule. You can claim that it only happens to new or bad players, as you seem to be not so subtly implying, but it's a bad and unrealistic rule.

Unrealistic? Like how it takes the same amount of time to move from Berlin to Kiel as it does to go from St. Pete to Syria via Mid-Atlantic Ocean?

Unrealistic? For all that you like acting like you know everything and are right about everything, you can be clueless sometimes. The funny thing is that you and TMW seem very similar to me even though you might be at opposite sides of the political spectrum.

Alderian - for whatever reason neither you nor 67% of the webdip community can go one thread or have a single discussion about even the smallest of things without engaging in personal attacks or ranting about something irrelevant. Why is that?

The game as a whole is pretty unrealistic. History is full of stories of an out of position army (even in the right area) losing to an inferior foe. So, bearing that in mind, St. Petersburg itself is on the Baltic Sea coast. A navy attacking St. Petersburg from that coast with the assistance of armies marching in from Moscow and Livonia will be repulsed by a fleet on the north coast, a fleet in the Barents Sea, and an army in Norway (the most significant parts of which are far from the very thin and difficult to travel through Norway/Russia border).

The game's not realistic. It's only supposed to be fun, and it is. I find forward retreats pretty exciting no matter if they happen in my favor or to my detriment.

@ Putin33

You'll happily deport your fellow Americans but you won't deport illegal immigrants. Doesn't that seem hypocritical?

I doubt very many liberals could pass the citizenship test. They have shown profound ignorance of history in the past.

(I have no idea what your views on illegal aliens are, but I'm assuming your views are the opposite of mine)

"You'll happily deport your fellow Americans but you won't deport illegal immigrants. Doesn't that seem hypocritical?"

What's hypocritical? I want people to come here who want to actually contribute and actually know something about this country. Not bigoted blowhards who contribute nothing but division and backwardness. It's hypocritical for rightwing clowns prattle on about how "patriotic" they are when they couldn't tell the 6th amendment from their own rearend.

"They have shown profound ignorance of history in the past."

Who is your idea of historical scholarship? Michelle Bachman and her wonderful SOTU address? Considering the right has contempt for science (Bill O'Reilly thinks the sun has something to do with the tides, and your people think climate science is a vast anti-capitalist conspiracy) why should anyone believe they have any respect for history? The right can't even remember what happened in 2008, let alone 1908. And in fact, the hint of knowing something about anything is ridiculed as 'intellectual elitism.

"I have no idea what your views on illegal aliens are, but I'm assuming your views are the opposite of mine)"

I'm against murderous vigilantes, and South Africa-esq documentation laws, if that's what you mean. I'm also against repealing the 14th amendment, as you people want to do. I'm also for enforcing the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which has never been enforced. You see people were in the southwest before America ever annexed that land. Another fact of history the right wants us all to forget.


"You'll happily deport your fellow Americans but you won't deport illegal immigrants. Doesn't that seem hypocritical?"

"They have shown profound ignorance of history in the past." All liberals? Really, that seems like a silly thing to say. For what it's worth you've also shown a profound ignorance of nearly everything, in the past. The only reason you have the right not to be deported and illegal aliens do not is that you were lucky enough to be born in the US. Are you really going to argue that being born in a specific geographic location is a justification for imposing your views on other people? Your inability to think critically is consistently amazing to me. Unless it turns out you actually are 14, in which case you're just a typical teenager.

Just saying that, personally, I'd rather have a profound ignorance of history than a profound ignorance of the present. Not that I feel either is a good idea, but still. A lot of people primarily get their information from sources that don't let a few facts get in the way of their message.

Yeah. As much as I think that Putin is often a bit much, he's not demonstrated as much blatantly ignorant shit as TMW. I think the only person who is louder about his own ignorance on the forums is Krellin, who I haven't seen hide nor hair of him since I effectively elbow dropped him when he claimed 52.24 percent was a supermajority when bleating about Prop 8 being struck down in district court.

I'll give TMW credit when credit is due... he at least cares about the affairs of the nation. He's grossly ignorant and more than a little knee jerk reactionary, but that is just a matter of education.

Putin33 - "Alderian - for whatever reason neither you nor 67% of the webdip community can go one thread or have a single discussion about even the smallest of things without engaging in personal attacks or ranting about something irrelevant. Why is that? "

I can't speak for anyone else. I have however seen many posts from you that I disagreed with and not engaged in a personal attack. And in general, I don't engage in personal attacks against others. And in this very thread, it was my third post where I called you "clueless". So I think you can't group me in with the 67% of the community that apparently can't go one thread without engaging in personal attacks.

For the record, here is how this went from my perspective.

You posted a viewpoint that didn't seem valid to me. That a forward retreat was unrealistic. I pointed out that it was realistic and gave a theoretical example. You reiterated your view, ignoring my assertion. I reiterated my position more strongly with a suggestion of how to deal with it rather than just complain about it. You complained that dealing with it was too hard, but did acknowledge that it could happen in real life, just not as frequently. Then you got into a political penis fight with TMW and finally reiterated your original opinion.

I pointed out the irony of you and TMW being as alike in personality (from what I've seen) as you are dis-alike in political position. And in doing so I did insert a personal insult due to my frustration with your complaining, and for that I do apologize.

I do not truly think you are clueless, but I could do a bit with a little less whining and a bit more openness to reason. The rule is the rule and complaining about it isn't going to change it.

This was a thread for 'rants'. I posted one. People complain about stuff related to the game all the time. Holy christ I expressed frustration about an aspect of the rules. Sue me.

Although I suppose you could write a variant that allowed units in territories surrounding potential retreat territories to issue "support retreat" and "prevent retreat" orders during the retreat phase.

Ah crap. I forgot this thread was supposed to be about ranting and just got caught up in the discussion. My apologizes once again.

thats an interesting thought @alderian, i think it would be good if the unit that was retreating couldnt be prevented to retreat to somewhere that the retreating country already controls though. they could only prevent retreat if it would be retreating to a place uncontrolled by the retreating unit.

@putin33
i appreciate your post, that is exactly what i made this post for and if people dont like it then they dont have to post here.

@maltizok - If this was for every stupid fucker to fucking rant, why the fuck didn't you say so on the initial fucking post? Fucking stupid, if you ask me. We aren't all fucking psychics. Jesus fucking Christ I hate fucking morons who expect me to read their fucking minds.

</sarcasm>

Here is my real rant. This game has been around longer than most here have been alive. Quit trying to change the fucking rules of a classic!

@draugnar
im still laughing at your sarcastic rant by the way and for the serious one, its not so much trying to change the classic but create new variants starting with the sound base of the classic format.

just thought of another rant of my own, WTF is wrong with people?!? i'm so sick of people NMR-ing in the middle of a live game! if you have something to do in real life and its not going to take long then just ask for a pause and estimated time for the pause in global chat and if its something that you actually need to do and dont just want a pause for the hell of it then most people will be willing to pause for you. DO NOT JUST LEAVE THE GAME, its so simple and yet people leave in the middle of the live games i play all the time and if your going to die and you leave the game then why the fuck dont you just finish the game and take the loss or survive. EVERYONE on this site HATES when people leave just because they're going to die (or for any other matter actually unless they have a legit reason they need to leave) so why the fuck cant you just finish out the game, at least you get to influence it for a little while instead of giving some other players a free advantage from your undefended sc!!!

@maltizok - You didn't say variant before, sorry. But you can always prevent a retreat the way the best players do: by bouncing two rear units in the potential retreat territory.

@draugnar i try to keep out of situations where they could have a forward advance from a retreat however one of my friends is in a game and i know him in real life so he logged in at my house and since its his first game im teaching him as he goes and he decided to make a move where he knew in spring the next year he would get forced back out and because of that he retreated behind the enemy line and has 3 undefended sc points in easy range now so the variant without forward retreats would be a nice one to try out to prevent things like that.

I just see it as the challenge. I do my best to make certain any grabs I do leave no retreats or only backwards retreats. Part of being a moderately competent player.

You know what's more awesome than the self-bounce? Support moving the selfbounce. LanGaidan taught me that smooth move in a game where I was France and Germany was intending a selfbounce to keep a unit in Sweden and Kiel while also covering Denmark. I had F North Sea and A Holland. Since the self-bounce was obviously coming, he suggested F North Sea S A Kiel to Denmark, A Holland to Kiel. It was beautiful.