I am not here to discuss the rights or wrongs - we are agreed on that already. What I want to know is, what is the best way to expose multi-accounters?
I have clashed with one in the past 12 hours. I found him in one of my games and challenged him to drop all accounts except one. He even confessed in part, admitting that two of the accounts in one game were his (in reality, at least 3). I also named another of his accounts, the one he uses for bigger games.
In short, he said he would stop. In practice, he went ahead and opened/joined new games using these accounts. At the last look, one had two of his accounts in it.
I know how he has lasted so long at this without being called. He has been tolerated as an amusement by friends, he uses multiple e-mail addresses, attacks himself with non-critical moves and even writes a few simple messages between the accounts.
He will probably come back in the same way even if banned.
Nevertheless, I believe he should be banned and his games made cd.
But, and here is the question, how?
Is it enough for a member such as myself to just claim that all this is true? Fortunately, one of my logs contains his partial confession, but it does not cover all his accounts.
I would appreciate advice.
In the meantime, those of you in games with the following, be warned,
to the best of my knowledge these are the same person -
ice point
wing09
roger941994
sleepy pig
Man fish (99%)
There are others.
Yes, and Chrispminis is quite correct. A good reputation is so hard to achieve but very easy to lose.
I have warned, in person and very gently, some of the above to be careful when they are in games together. The perception that they or any of us are cheating is very easily created and from then on extremely difficult to get rid of.
In the case of ice point / wing09 / sleepy pig (all confessed to now), in just about his very first game he was accused of metagaming with Mr Yeung. In truth, Mr Yeung was helping him learn to play, but that gave a tactical advantage and it was spotted easily. Experienced gamers need no more than corroborated suspicion to make up their minds, not a law case. In that game, Mr Yeung was accused of metagaming.
This is a claim that has surfaced a few times since and he is finding it difficult to shrug off. He does himself no favours by continuing to ally with a known multi-accounter. And, by asking that a known multi-accouner be allowed to complete his games before stopping what he is doing, he just creates more doubt about his own honesty.
I appeal to Mr Yeung to live up to his full ability and play the game absolutely above board and in a way that people can see and respect. Do that and you will get what you want: invitations to play games with excellent players.
The first step is to cut all connections with multi-accounters. Do not try to defend them.
This will be that last time I'm defending for wing09 since his argument with flashman is getting personal. I know that wing09 is guilty of multi-accounting & I'm not trying to say he's not. I just help him ask to be forgiven. I forgot who but I think I saw someone misunderstanding wing09's words in the post 'wing09 = ice point' :
1. he will be quiting the one & only game he had more than one account in.
2. he will continue playing games which he had only one account inside, which would be fair.
3. he will not join anymore games with wing09 & drop it once all its games are finished, so that he will only have 'ice point' as his one & only account that he will use.
& another thing is that roger & man fish are really innocent, this i know.
FINE, now my defending for them has ENDED, but I would like to defend myself instead!!!
fwancophile just accused me of cheating because he wasn't good enough to defend his own SC in the game 'Speedy players' ! He also doesn't have any good reading & analyzing skills that he couldn't realize :
I EARNED THE SCs FROM HIM MYSELF, NO ONE HELPED.
It was planned between wing09 & i early in the game that roger will be killed sooner or later even though roger is wing09's friend, & I DON'T FIND STABBING AN ALLY 'UNETHICAL' !
The alliance between wing09 & I isn't that solid but instead fragile & war has begun the moment he stabbed me.
You got yourself the lands in Austria ALL BECAUSE AUSTRIA WAS LEFT CIVIL DISORDER! Then you spread yourself thin enough for me to get you out of all your old SCs in Austria in just ONE YEAR.
That is YOUR PROBLEM, NOT MINE.
If you find stabbing unethical, sorry but you aren't enough to play Diplomacy. It said in the rules "The most skillful negotiator will climb to victory over the backs of both enemies and friends." Read if you have eyes.
Mr Yeung, please read carefully:
Are you prepared to go public with who Man fish and roger941994 are then?
"I can start an account and call it Leslie...
or I can ask someone else to start the account;
I can claim that Leslie is a cousin or friend of mine, and this can be true...
but I can also use that account myself and therefore be in a game multi-accounting and still claim, with sophistry, that Leslie is my cousin/friend... "
Perhaps you could also explain ice point's other accounts?
He has tried to shift and wriggle out of the ones named, there are others which I have held back and I am sure you know of some of them. He has boasted about his multiple e-mail accounts, how he registers with these, how he writes little messages between accounts at the start of games and how he makes dummy attacks on his accounts.
I am happy to see an amnesty and all guilty parties set to play with one and only one account. But I would also ask that anyone caught re-offending should be banned with no right of appeal.
I have made it clear in the various threads that started over the past day that ice point not only confessed (privately before going public), not only said he would stop what he was doing, but also went straight to the Games list and joined with different accounts and with two in one game.
I look forward to the software that will help to identify multi-accounters because I think Matthew will linked to more than the three he has admitted to, more than the extra two I have indicated as also likely, and more than the further two I have implied to Admin. In short, he probably has at least seven accounts and is using some of them even while this very public discussion of his behaviour is going on.
I would suggest that you put more effort into considering your own reputation. When Matthew gets his just reward, and if further links are established, you as an apparent supporter and regular game-sharer, are going to have a hard time explaining yourself. Read what Chrispminis said above...
I can only repeat what I have said before. You are a very good player in your own right: ask your friends what I told them after your first ever face-to-face game. You should climb out of the slime and establish yourself as someone that others would like to test themselves against.
Wow. I'm away from the forum for two days and this happens!
I don't think that repeated angry posts will solve anything. As for family, I think it is fine for different family members to play together, but repeated alliances between those members is not on. You can't legislate for that in advance, but I'm sure fellow members will be quick to advertise it on the forum.
As for flashman/wombat. I've played games with flashman and wombat, and although I can't say for certain that they aren't the same person, I am 99.99% sure. After all, the repeated in-game arguments and stabs between the three of us, both by wombat on flashman and vice-versa, is testimony enough. Add the extensive chat that I've had with both, and the different styles of writing... you'd have to be extremely clever and have hours of spare time to be that elaborate.
Icepoint, roger, gamemaster - don't do repeated posts having a go at everyone else - be reasonable in your replies. You aren't going to persuade anyone of your point of view with the posts you are putting above.
Wait to see what Kestas says. As an impartial arbiter, you couldn't get any better. Personally, I can't wait for moderators to come online...
Kestas: First Great War Draw
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