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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Mcshade (149 D)
05 Feb 08 UTC
Kestas: First Great War Draw
Sparrowhawk and I are the last players on the board, and we both would like a draw. The link is http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2713

I, Turkey agree to this draw.
3 replies
Open
mingle (347 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
I'm changing the subject
I get bored of seeing every other thread about multi-accounting, and then the acussed coming on and saying, they're not doing anything wrond Yadda yadda yadda.

So i thought i'd say this.

Kestas, this is a great game, thanks for programming it. I am enjoying in thouroughly, even though i sincerely suck. Can't wait for the updates!

That is all.

Yeah you can post here and say whatever, as long as it is not moaning about people witch-hunting you for being a damned cheater!
7 replies
Open
Nick Douglas (408 D)
05 Feb 08 UTC
24 hours left to take over the CDs in Spring 1901
Game is "101 points" and URL is http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2908

Come join as Italy and Germany so I don't just rack up free SCs as Austria.
0 replies
Open
Mcshade (149 D)
05 Feb 08 UTC
How do we draw?
I'm new to this site, and I'm not sure how to settle on a draw. In one of my games, I and another player want to call it a tie, but I'm not sure How to. What do I do?
1 reply
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
03 Feb 08 UTC
draw request WW I honour rules
ok so in
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2671

WW I honour rules we are finishing on a draw. do all agree? please post here so kestas can draw the game, thanks
8 replies
Open
MajorTom (4417 D)
05 Feb 08 UTC
How do i support a an army being convoyed into its destination?
Is it possible to do here?
2 replies
Open
Darwyn (1601 D)
02 Feb 08 UTC
Alright, what am I missing here?
Your army at Piedmont moving into Tyrolia recieved move support from the army at Venice.

Your army at Piedmont sucessfully defeated the army and moved into Tyrolia.

Yet, somehow Tyrolia successfully attacked Munich!!

Your army at Munich was attacked by the army at Tyrolia, but sucessfully defended.

WTF! What am I missing here?

Tyrolia was able to cut the support Munich was giving to another one of my units. How is that? Tyrolia was overrun and was forced to retreat!
9 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
04 Feb 08 UTC
Kestas Draw Request. TWENTY TWO game...
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2589

This is actually a re-post. The first request, with the verification of the other two players, has dropped off the forum due to it's extensive age.
3 replies
Open
thewonderllama (100 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
arg!
i hate it when you lose a perfectly defensible position because you make a mistake with your orders! the same orders you've been doing for multiple turns already! damnit!!!!

sorry, just had to vent.
7 replies
Open
anlari (8640 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
Metagaming
Game ID: 2564
Players: Stephen V, Brisreb

Message from Stephen V as evidence:

France and I are in some games together, some not. In the games we were together we worked well together. We learned we could trust each other. If we're in a game together why would I not ally with someone I know I can trust? And we have definitely played games and not worked together in the past.

Does anyone disagree with me considering this metagaming, and what can be done about it if it is?
4 replies
Open
flashman (2274 D(G))
03 Feb 08 UTC
Outing Multi-accounters...
I am not here to discuss the rights or wrongs - we are agreed on that already. What I want to know is, what is the best way to expose multi-accounters?

I have clashed with one in the past 12 hours. I found him in one of my games and challenged him to drop all accounts except one. He even confessed in part, admitting that two of the accounts in one game were his (in reality, at least 3). I also named another of his accounts, the one he uses for bigger games.

In short, he said he would stop. In practice, he went ahead and opened/joined new games using these accounts. At the last look, one had two of his accounts in it.

I know how he has lasted so long at this without being called. He has been tolerated as an amusement by friends, he uses multiple e-mail addresses, attacks himself with non-critical moves and even writes a few simple messages between the accounts.

He will probably come back in the same way even if banned.

Nevertheless, I believe he should be banned and his games made cd.

But, and here is the question, how?

Is it enough for a member such as myself to just claim that all this is true? Fortunately, one of my logs contains his partial confession, but it does not cover all his accounts.

I would appreciate advice.

In the meantime, those of you in games with the following, be warned,
to the best of my knowledge these are the same person -

ice point
wing09
roger941994
sleepy pig

Man fish (99%)

There are others.
56 replies
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
04 Feb 08 UTC
moratorium new multiaccounting threads please
The posts have been overcome with multiple multiaccounting machinations and metagaming malarky! pretty annoying behavior its true but maybe it would appear to the casual bystander that our happy bunny rabbit smurf like community is succumbing to a horde of evil multiaccounting vandals. i don't believe this is the case...is it? let's all just chill out and papa smurf will bring these evildoers to their knees with a in a week or two with .8
beware the dark side.
2 replies
Open
kickboxer (128 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
NEW Game... First world war... Honor
in this version there is an honor system. France russia and england against germany austria and turkey. Italy can choose its side however and can break alliances.:-)
0 replies
Open
wing09 (112 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
wing09 = ice point
at first, i used wing09 to play diplomacy with yeunghauyip, then rait said we are metagamers, then yeunghauyip told me to change to another account. then why wing09 joined games was because someone told me told me not to give up my first account since it had quite some points. now i'm sorry & i'll give up any game that both wing09 and ice point are in together - gamergame (give up both countries). but if in the game i only have one account, then it is fair and i will not give up.

ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT :
roger941994 , man fish are two different person and NOT ME!!! they are my friend and cousin respectively.

at last, FLASHMAN, next time please talk when you have PROVE because in the 'LOGS' u said u have, I CLEARLY SAID THAT ROGER AND MAN FISH ARE NOT MINE!!!
8 replies
Open
Sun_Tzu (2116 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
Team play
Two players CY-1963 & oak07 play many of their games together as a team. So those who are in games with them BEWARE!!
2 replies
Open
ch0utim3 (129 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
Question
suppose Unit 1 was to move from piedmont to venice in order to bounce Enemy 1 in tyrolia from moving into venice. However Enemy 2 is located in tuscany and is moving into piedmont.

Do the Unit 1 and Enemy 1 bounce and then Unit 1 successfully defend against Enemy 2? or do Unit 1 and Enemy 1 bounce and Enemy 2 moves into piedmont while Unit 1 has to retreat?
3 replies
Open
aaaa (127 D)
04 Feb 08 UTC
101 point game
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2908
0 replies
Open
The Mahatma (1195 D)
02 Feb 08 UTC
Real Time Game - who's around?
Are there 6 people around who want to try a real time game today?

Mahatma
35 replies
Open
Braveheart (2408 D(S))
22 Jan 08 UTC
Playing to Win & Meta-gaming
I often see threads published with respect to meta-gaming, people playing for points and the amount of countries slipping into CD (especially in lower pot games).

I found the following paragraph within an article by Roger Yonkoski (no idea who he is) under the heading 'The Grand Alliance'... which, for me at least, really hit the nail on the head with regard to the correct spirit in which the game should be played:

http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/articles/grand_alliance.htm

"I believe that it should be the objective of all players to prevent anyone else from winning, if they cannot win themselves. Most players may start with this objective, but by the time the game is near over, emotions have sometimes clouded that objective. Indeed, it is the task of each player to blow smoke into the other players' eyes and cloud their vision in just that way. With their vision thus clouded, players may be willing to let the game end for many reasons: revenge, loyalty, admiration, apathy.

I submit that all players have a duty to the game of Diplomacy. This duty is to always play to the best of their abilities through the end of the game, to try to prevent others from winning, and (at the risk of sounding corny) to play their position as if real citizens actually depended on their efforts. The hobby is better when everyone continues to play their position until the end, and in my opinion, plays to win or else prevent others from winning. It is a matter of honor to put the duty to the game over the pull of the emotions listed above."
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Noodlebug (1812 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
Multiaccounting, on the other hand... now that is instant ban territory!
Noodlebug (1812 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
Hmm, technically anyone who plays for rating points rather than a win comes under that definition of metagaming..!

(sorry for the triple post, my brain is going slow today)
lmatt (100 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
So using any factors outside the current game to influence your strategy is meta-gaming.

What would you define as multi-accounting, and why does it justify an instant ban?
Noodlebug (1812 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
One person using two or more accounts in the same game. It's cheating.
lmatt (100 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
What do you define as "using"?
anlari (8640 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
Regarding game 2564..

Just bother to check and realized Brisreb and Stephen V or whatever have a ton of common games - I won't bother to check if they're allied in all, nor do I want to accuse them.. but this is getting really annoying for me *mutters at himself for not staying away from games with new players*
anlari (8640 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
-bothered
lmatt (100 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
Should meta-gaming be allowed?
Noodlebug (1812 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
I think the "official" line is it should be discouraged. It's bad game etiquette. But we're all human and thought crimes are very difficult to police...
lmatt (100 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
I think the problem is the current system encourages meta-gaming. Being told the identity of the players in your game for one...
lmatt (100 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
...points being another
figlesquidge (2131 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
The trouble with an instant ban is this site has a free signup policy.
I think that once there are moderators, if they are as powerful as Kestas implied they will be able to firmly deal with multiplayers. This can then make it too hard for them and not worth cheating. If the main account is always disabled, cheating will have no value as they cannot achieve a notable score through it.

The solution to targetting (big players been chosen for allies/enemies because of their points) is anonymity, but that would require large sections of the code to be rewritten. Well, now i think through it i think a crude but good version could be written just changing one or two elements, but a determined player would be able to get round that to find out who they were playing
Noodlebug (1812 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
I don't think targeting is a problem, if it was Rait would never win anything! My experience is that newbies and weaker players in games are more likely to be targeted by the big boys than the other way round, leaving the best players to fight out the end-game. It all depends on the mix of players you have in any given game, and of course most players are intermediary, neither super-rankers or noobs.
My feeling has been well documented, the people everyone should be targeting are the ones with the most supply centres, regardless of anything else!
lmatt (100 D)
29 Jan 08 UTC
"the people everyone should be targeting are the ones with the most supply centres, regardless of anything else!"

It never is as simple as that.
alamothe (3367 D(B))
30 Jan 08 UTC
omg haha
Noodlebug (1812 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
I find it's almost always as simple as that! The trouble is persuading everyone else. (Or persuading them of the opposite, on those rare occasions where I am the one with the most supply centres!)
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jan 08 UTC
No... I don't think you should always attack the person winning just like... by default. Alliances and trust issues can be a lot more complicated than that. Let's say you aren't ready to make an enemy of this titan because they're adjacent to you and you hope to use the power of their alliance to build some power with which you might later resist them. This isn't uncommon in my games. Besides, making an alliance is completely unofficial, so there is no reason to suspect two countries who never attack eachother of "metagaming." If this is metagaming then what is the point of this game, you've removed the most important part of it, diplomacy. Just because neither of the allies ever ended up backstabbing eachother does not constitute metagaming. Long-lived and highly-trustworthy alliances are not metagaming, and if they are, I am guilty as charged, simply look through my game list and you'll find that in most all of my games there was at least one country with which I never engaged in open war.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jan 08 UTC
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2482 (Alliance with Austria, agreement to draw after Germany's elimination)

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2705 (Alliance with Turkey, agreement to draw after France's elimination)

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2425 (Alliance with Italy)

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2415 (Alliance with Russia)

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2508 (Alliance with Germany)

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2510 (Alliance with England)

If I can find all these examples of game-long alliances in my own record, and I've only been playing 1 month, then I am really forced to wonder about the rest of you. Can any of you really claim you never had a game with an ally you never had to betray?



Noodlebug (1812 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
OK I accept the person with the most supply centres isn't always the person in the strongest position, and sometimes you have some leeway to allow the person in the strongest position to do his thing against other players. But as soon as he is anywhere near winning, there's no ethical dilemma, there's no moral quandry, there's no equivocating over questions of loyalty - you all need to stop him.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jan 08 UTC
Well yes, but that often results in strong alliances between the resistance one the former superpower is turned back, I can think of
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2482
as a good example.
Noodlebug (1812 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
Yes, and so the circle turns... that doesn't mean there has to be a draw, it just means there's a new ally you have to keep an eye on if he gets too close to 18.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jan 08 UTC
Unless I'd rather not betray him... and we want a draw to end the game? In real war, people sign peace treaties because they are sick of figthing, so it is the same here.
Noodlebug (1812 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
If you want to give up half the game from a winning position, that's your choice, and while I don't want to take away your right to do that, I can't condone it and would encourage all players to try to win.
Betrayal need not come into it either (although it does give you an advantage!), if you both know that you're going to fight each other after your enemies are destroyed, that is not a betrayal. I'm usually pretty open with my allies that we're going to end up fighting each other, and try to offer balance of power incentives to keep them interested. If I can't persuade them they have a better chance of winning the game by sticking with me and then beating me in a fair fight, why would they work with me?

Anyway, under the current system, you and your allies are both likely to walk away from the game with some reward, whoever wins.
Chrispminis (916 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
Um. I keep seeing some very corrupted ideas about metagaming...

So I'll lay down firmly what metagaming is, and why I think it should be illegal, or at least very much discouraged as much as practically possible.

Metagaming is when two or more players enter a game of Diplomacy with a prefabricated alliance or hostility. For example, if two friends join a game of Diplomacy and mutually understand that they will never stab each other simply because they knew each other prior to the game and wouldn't want to endanger their RL relationship. It is not metagaming if the two friends enter the game without the intent to stay allied the entire game, but rather would consider stabbing their friend just as much as any other player in the game.

The difference is in the intent and reasoning. If you're reason for attacking or not attacking another player stem from reasons established a priori to the game, then it is metagaming.

Now, this is NOT metagaming...

Metagaming is NOT refusing to stab someone in a game. If you feel they are a worthy ally and do not want to stab them, then that is fine. The problem is when you refuse to stab someone because they're your father's friend, or something like that.

The problem with metagaming? It adds an element of predetermination. With predetermined alliances or hostilities, diplomacy and negotiation are compromised. There is nothing a player can do if two other players refuse to attack each other because of metagame reasons. The player simply cannot offer what the other player can, and the game field therefore initiates in a state of imbalance.

Enforcement is also a large problem with metagaming. Because, like Noodlebug mentioned, it is difficult to police one's thoughts. It must largely be kept with an honour system and the will to play a true and fair game.

While it is incredibly difficult (most would say impossible) to enter a game without any prejudices at all considering it's likely that you will be playing with a player that you've had previous experience with, and the fact that points are displayed as well. Despite this, we should still attempt to minimize our bias, and enter the game open minded.

If it helps, as a habit, I refer to players in my games solely by their countries. In fact, I often completely ignore the names, and as a result, usually forget who I've played with (though I'll always remember several).

Winner takes all is NOT a simple thing. I don't think Noodlebug meant to simplify it, though I cannot speak for him. Though it is based on simple precepts, it's manifestation in game is wide and varied. It is not the bulldog the leader plan that people think of when they think of winner takes all. It is merely a Diplomacy ethical standard. It does not dictate how you attain your goals. It dictates what your goals should be. Never confuse it with simplicity, simplicity is akin to predictability which is the prime vice in Diplomacy.
Chrispminis (916 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
I wonder how many people will actually take the precious time to read that. Haha. =S
The Mahatma (1195 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
Chris and Thucydides, thank you. I found your posts very balanced and thoughtful. I would only add that although it is impossible to police others' thoughts, I think one can more or less tell when one is in a metagame situation - the cheaters often do not negotiate with you, and they almost always move in ways that defy logic.

Noodle, with all due respect, please please take a break from posting comments about how people *should play. I think you should continue playing the way you think you should. But you are telling everyone they should play the way you do. You even said what you can condone. I find it arrogant and repetitive.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
30 Jan 08 UTC
What's funny about all this to me is that the meta-gamer types mostly probably don't read these... haah
Noodlebug (1812 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
You're entitled to hold and express your opinions, and I'm entitled to hold and express mine. I find a lot of the games I've been playing lately frustrating and unfair, and I am trying to do something about it using persuasion and reasoned argument, for the end result of more exciting and entertaining games for everyone. And I know some people agree.
Seeing as most people will ignore my wishes and continue to do what they always do, I choose to exercise the same right!

Incidentally how is "people should try to win" different from "people shouldn't metagame." I'm not saying I disagree with Chrispminis, far from it, but he is posting comments about how people should play just the same as I am. Do I detect some predetermined hostility against me? Or just good old fashioned hypocrisy? ;)
The Mahatma (1195 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
Brother, dude, I agree with you, too. I'm just finding it repetitive, and I think I find it arrogant because you state it so often.
The Mahatma (1195 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
I just read the article Thucydides had cited in a thread below and am wondering if others could share links to articles about the game.

Personally, I'd be interested in articles from the mainstream media that might help me make my case that I am not a member of cult, but, rather enjoying a transcendental game that has broad applicability.

Thanks Thucydides and anyone else who posts!

Mahatma

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69 replies
icanhazconquest (100 D)
03 Feb 08 UTC
New Game - La Linea Maginot
20 points. who's in?
0 replies
Open
thewonderllama (100 D)
31 Jan 08 UTC
GFDT Round 2
Now announcing the 2nd Round of the Grand Festive Diplomacy Tournament!

In the interest of not taking up too much space in the forum listing, the draw will be listed in the comments. I'll also be sending the contents of this to the people for whom I have email addresses. Signalseven, Charman Mao, TheMaster, and Rait: if you'd like to get tournament info via email, drop me a line at [email protected].
49 replies
Open
positron (1160 D)
02 Feb 08 UTC
Ye of little faith
When the gamemaster surprises me, I should know that I've been stabbed in the back. I can't be sure, because of problems with the adjudicator.

There should be a list of adjudicator problems. If not on this site, then on http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpdiplomacy

Of course there is a third possibility. It's not a bug, it's not being stabbed, it's user incompetence.
11 replies
Open
gameover (619 D)
03 Feb 08 UTC
New Game
Last Resort-
101 pts to join
0 replies
Open
positron (1160 D)
02 Feb 08 UTC
Watson, it's elementary!
Explore another of the elements of diplomacy, Technetium (43).

http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2896
3 replies
Open
tigreton (0 DX)
02 Feb 08 UTC
For spanish people
I'm tired to talk in english... xD.
So if there is anybody who talk spanish, come here.
And if not, u can come too.
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2898
Cheap play, 5.
0 replies
Open
Shisuren (587 D)
01 Feb 08 UTC
Kestas - WWI Honor Rules - Allies surrendered
*crosses fingers that this sends properly*

England, France, and Russia have surrendered in our WWI Honor Rules match (gid=2671). I'm not exactly sure what was decided in the other WWI game, but if it was drawn between the victors (in this case, Germany, Austria, and Turkey), could you do the same thing here?

The other players should be posting shortly. Thanks.
9 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
02 Feb 08 UTC
Everyone join this game now.
Bet = 20.
Join up ASAP 6 hours to go.
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2890
pw = breuer
This game is open to all.
3 replies
Open
neros84 (149 D)
30 Jan 08 UTC
How can I support an attack via convoy?
I'd like to give support to an attack via convoy. The problem is that the drop-down boxes only seem to give the option to support an attack by the fleet from that territory, not to support a convoy attack via that fleet. This is legal in standard Diplo, right?
3 replies
Open
fhrathore (82 D)
02 Feb 08 UTC
Cancel game
I am currently playing battle of europe I and there are currently only three active members playing. is there a way for the admin to cancel this game w/out a penalty?
1 reply
Open
Darchelian (131 D)
02 Feb 08 UTC
I'm not trying to enforce maturity, but...
Is there any way we can remove any conversations whose headlines are derogatory? I don't really care what people put in threads because I can easily choose not to reopen a thread. However it is a little more difficult to explain to my boss why my screen shows the phrase that makes up the title of fwancophile's last thread.
9 replies
Open
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