dip "Too little is bad, too much is bad." I asked this to be a facts based discussion. What is the right level and mix of greenhouse gases? How do you know? you have presented only opinions. No facts. No facts whatsoever. Twit.

You have the wrong mentality BOG.
No, humans cannot just "end" an ice age. Humans, can however alter the variables that relate to earth's temperature and cause the ice age to end sooner.
And yes, if you are talking about modern humans with today's tech, and not archaic sapiens, we can prevent an ice age from occuring, by observing the signs and taking countermeasures, which is precisely what I, and the majority of the scientific community proposes

ghug "Teehee" Yes. But use your intellect and answer this question - If the temperature on mars and Jupiter varies exactly as the temperature on Earth, why do you believe that man has anything to do temperature change on Earth?

Yoyo "Humans, can however alter the variables that relate to earth's temperature " BS. Show me the math. Show how it works. You are professing a religion. Not science. Not reality. Show how it works in your imagination.

I think this should be a facts-based discussion, with a fair limitation that it should exclude all data collected by all full-time scientists devoting their life to it, but it should include the maths of a forum population of an online game. But *facts-based* please.

"No facts whatsoever."

Really, what about 10% is not infinitesimal? You ignored that. Fuckwit.

MOW -"I think this should be a facts-based discussion," I wish we could stick to facts and not opinions.

For example, what is the math that shows how CO2 relates to heat in the atmosphere? How does CO2 create heat?

dip "Really, what about 10% is not infinitesimal? " Man-made CO2 is .28% of the atmosphere. What is the 10% number you are claiming? And show how any level of CO2 relates to temperature in the atmosphere. You are professing a religious belief. Nothing at all related to science.

@BoG, you ask for a fact based discussion, but you brought it to this forum.....hehehe.

"For example, what is the math that shows how CO2 relates to heat in the atmosphere? How does CO2 create heat? "

I can answer this one for BOG. If you fill two identical clear closed acrylic boxes of gas and shine equivalent amounts of sunlight through them, you'll find the box containing more CO2 or other gas with "greenhouse effect" properties will have slightly higher temperature than the control.

Try it! You'll be amazed!

I agree we don't know the impact of human caused emissions in the overall climate scheme, be we do know how greenhouse gasses work. It's why we've dubbed them so.

CO2 traps heat. Please tell us no part of your argument relies on the answer to that hopefully-rhetorical question, BOG.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas because it absorbs and then reemits thermal radiation, preventing it from escaping the atmosphere.

How can you talk about wanting facts and then spout shit about Mars not having greenhouse gasses.

From mars, he knows^^

"Man-made CO2 is .28% of the atmosphere. What is the 10% number you are claiming?"

By your numbers BOG (I haven't checked to see if they are accurate), 3% of the atmosphere is CO2 and .28% of the atmosphere is man-made CO2. This means that human-made CO2 is approximately 10% of all CO2 in the atmosphere.

My take on climate change is this. Whether or not human activity is causing climate change, human activity is still screwing the environment. Pollution, deforesting, desertification, among other things, are killing our home. Whether or not these things cause climate change, we need to find a more sustainable way of life.

gh "How can you talk about wanting facts and then spout shit about Mars not having greenhouse gasses." Listen closely. If the temperature Mars, with no CO2 in the atmosphere, moves exactly as the temperature on the Earth, why do you believe CO2 has any impact on temperature?

Lol show you the math? I did. You either disregarded it, or ignored it completely. Did you see the chart of the correlation between CO2 and temperature? Do you need me to tech you the science of greenhouse gases and CO2. If you wish.

When solar heat hits the atmosphere, most molecules deflect it. Greenhouse gases absorbs and deflects its innall directions, even towards the surface of the earth.

KC"This means that human-made CO2 is approximately 10% of all CO2 in the atmosphere." k but the question remains, show the math that relates CO2 to temperature. You are spouting religious belief.

The scientific fallacies are coming for us! Run and hide your wives and kids!

Person 1: (Holding up rock) "This is a rock."
Person 2: "That's your opinion. Prove to me that that is a rock."

But seriously, if 99% of experts on a subject believe that something is true, it most likely is. It is sad how politicians on both sides selectively deny science for their own ends.

BOG, I'm not spouting any religious belief. YOU asked where the 10% figure was from. I showed you. That is literally all I said. You are putting words in my mouth. That is not religion, that is math.

glug "How can you talk about wanting facts and then spout shit about Mars not having greenhouse gasses." k we'll take this slowly. If the temperature of the earth and the temperature of Mars and Jupiter move in the same direction, why do you believe CO2 has anything to do with temperature? If the temperature on Mars, with no CO2, rises exactly as the earth, with CO2, why do you believe CO2 matters?

Fact, the atmosphere about 0.04% CO2 of which about a third is the result of human activity, or a 42% increase from pre industrial levels (it was 280 ppm, now is 400 ppm).

Fact is, CO2 acts like a blanket. Tell me how you sleep with one blanket and then add a second but don't heat up.

Without any CO2 the temperature would be about 30C colder than it is now (i.e., a block of ice).

So, we know our emissions trap heat. If that ISN'T warming the earth, which changes climate, the deniers have to explain where all that heat is magically going.

gobble "But seriously, if 99% of experts on a subject believe " That is religion. Not science or fact. You don't vote on facts

"In common speech, an infinitesimal object is an object which is smaller than any feasible measurement, but not zero in size; or, so small that it cannot be distinguished from zero by any available means."

0.28% / 2.972% = 9.333%, let's call it 10%, which as approximation is certainly closer than calling it too small to be measured.

""But seriously, if 99% of experts on a subject believe " That is religion. Not science or fact. You don't vote on facts"

By this "logic" any "expert" disagreeing with something renders it non-fact; which is a load of poppycock.

dip 99% of the scientists at the time voted that the sun revolves around the earth. You don't vote on science

Gobble "But seriously, if 99% of experts on a subject believe that something is true," You don't vote on science