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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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SYnapse (0 DX)
28 Feb 14 UTC
Some thoughts on my article
the-philosopher.co.uk/republicanism.htm

Comments please?
6 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
27 Feb 14 UTC
The Live Game Promotion Problem
as per below

23 replies
Open
Orka (785 D)
27 Feb 14 UTC
(+3)
Iron Maiden
Who else loves them?
8 replies
Open
oscarjd74 (100 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
(+2)
Who's up for a game of Backseat Driver Diplomacy?
See inside.
67 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
27 Feb 14 UTC
new egypt in modern gunboat needed
unfortunately, we lost egypt in an ongoing modern gunboat game. two-day phases, buy-in 15.
gameID=132764
the position is far from perfect, but it can be game-changing!
0 replies
Open
nfowler562 (100 D)
26 Feb 14 UTC
New
So I am newish; where do I go?

Curious about Gunboat but can't find rules or info on it.
22 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
25 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
Pseudoscience
An article on the left and pseudoscience. (Focusing on Whole Foods). Comments?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/23/whole-foods-america-s-temple-of-pseudoscience.html
91 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
27 Feb 14 UTC
(+4)
It's (almost) my webDip Birthday!
In under 2 hours I'll be 6 years old! In lieu of presents, please contribute to the site, either with a donation, volunteering to help with a tournament/SoW, opening a Chase bank account, or just starting an interesting discussion on the Forum.

Thanks to everyone for making this my favorite site on the Internet for 6 years running!
6 replies
Open
Dharmaton (2398 D)
27 Feb 14 UTC
This is nuts, glad i got ousted lolol
... ?gameID=136595 live now pffff
27 replies
Open
Jacksonisboss (30 DX)
27 Feb 14 UTC
a new live game
join "another practice game live ppsc" . it is ppsc and it starting 2 minutes
4 replies
Open
Jacksonisboss (30 DX)
27 Feb 14 UTC
join
join my game for new player/pros who like helping others. it is "another practice game live ppsc"(exactly that) btw starts in 15 minutes
2 replies
Open
Lord Baldy (100 D)
26 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
BIG FAT HAIRY BUMHOLES
Need I say more?...
12 replies
Open
Lord Baldy (100 D)
26 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
FLUFFY WHITE CLOUDS
Aren't they lovely?...
7 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
A Jewish State? Israel? YES. YES IT IS.
http://news.yahoo.com/israeli-demand-sparks-39-jewish-state-39-debate-192744221.html It's a Jewish State. As surely as Ireland's an Irish state and Iran's an Iranian state, Israel is a JEWISH state...THE Jewish state. Make the Palestinians recognize that, and in turn, make the Israelis stop the terrible, TERRIBLE expansion plan into the West Bank. As surely as there must be a Palestine, Israel MUST be THE Jewish state.
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obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Hm, no one commenting on a Wigger Nation State?"

Again, to Wikipedia...

"Wigger is a slang term for a white person who emulates mannerisms, language, and fashions associated with African-American culture, particularly hip hop, and in Britain the Grime scene.[1] The term is a portmanteau of white and nigger.

As 1. White people already have, oh, an insane amount of states, 2. Wigger isn't an ethnicity but, frankly, an embarrassment to white and black people alike, and 3. The only reason we'd ever grant such a state is to immediately bomb it to cease entitled white boys acting like idiots by trying to appropriate another culture...

Yeah. Consider it answered.

"Some believe the nationalist ideal was a grave error from it's inception."

I'd argue the nation-state wasn't a grave error but nationalism in many cases was...and that's obviously sometimes hard to separate, but I still think it can be done, and there IS a certain level of cultural identity that comes with forming a nation.

I love countries that blend, but I also would, in an ideal world, give every real--which I only say to get rid of your absurd "Wigger" option, come on, be serious here, white boys appropriating other cultures is NOT a race/ethnicity/ethnoreligious group by any stretch--group a place of their own where they could JUST be by themselves if they so chose.

Multiculturalism is great...but FORCING people to mix can have disastrous results, as we've all seen.

A huge portion of Israelis and Palestinians hate each other and don't want to mix.

So don't make them mix.

Let the ones that want to mix stay and mix, and let the ones that want to be separated by separate homelands be separated.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
Actually, the disastrous results of multiculturalism you speak of stem from people not being forced to live together. Communal violence occurs when either A) the state itself is xenophobic and abuses its monopoly on violence to kill (Nazi Germany) or B) the state is unwilling or unable to put a stop to the communal violence (Central African Republic).
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Far better that Israel learn from the experience of American Jews, who have fled to a country without such a basis, and thus have no need of a state of their own."

I will forever call bullshit on that one, Thucy--

As much as I LOVE America, and I'm happy we came here...I'm sorry...

How can you convince me it won't one day throw us out?

Plenty of Antisemites still live here, there's a strong undercurrent of that in certain areas, to be sure...and what's more (and more damning to your statement) is that he Jews have moved to other places and were (relatively) OK for decades or sometimes even a century or two before trouble came.

THE JEWS NEED A STATE.

If you don't have a state and the guns and bombs to back it up, you'll get taken advantage of and bloodied up pretty badly...and few if any know that quite as well as the Jews.

I want and will forever want a Jewish state.

America cannot--and, again, SHOULD NOT--be that state. It's a lovely place, it's a lovely home...but it's not THE home...it's not the place the Jews can always be safe in...because there was a time the Jews were reasonably OK in parts of Russia, and Poland, and Spain--

How well did that turn out?
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Actually, the disastrous results of multiculturalism you speak of stem from people not being forced to live together. Communal violence occurs when either A) the state itself is xenophobic and abuses its monopoly on violence to kill (Nazi Germany) or B) the state is unwilling or unable to put a stop to the communal violence (Central African Republic)."

...The Jews and Palestinians?

I think that's a fair counterargument...under one roof (as it were) and look what happened.

For other examples--Sub-Saharan Africa and all the many tribes that have fought and killed other tribes because national boundaries were based on former colonial holdings and NOT ethnic divides, and sometimes you got tribes that hated each other and yet were forced into the same country by these arbitrary national divisions...Rwanda?
mapleleaf (0 DX)
23 Feb 14 UTC
I like the idea of a Wigger state way more than a Hebrew state.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
You seem to have completely missed my point. Step outside of your personal identity as a Jew for a moment and think globally.

Why are Africans getting a hard time in Israel? Because of this perception that it's a Jewish state and they don't belong there. Why did Jews get a hard time in Germany? Because of this perception that Germany was a white Christian state and the Jews didn't belong in it.

Forming little fortresses based on these ridiculous identities the world over is not going to deal with the root cause which is.... States at all. And in the meantime, states whose identity is expressly religious or cultural. How do you think gays and Satanists in Iran get on? Should these Iranians have their own state to escape Iran's oppression of them? Or should, instead, Iran stop being such a bigoted state and enforce the inclusion of these people in society, as is done (not fully or perfectly) in America and a few other multicultural states?

Israel is already a xenophobic country. No need to legitimize more hatred and oppression.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Israel then has to get Palestinians to submit to the reality of protectorate status."

1. For the Palestinians' sakes as much as the Jews, I want them to have a state as well...and...

2. Given what happened when the LAST folks calling the area a "protectorate" up and left to A. Start giving up the Empire B. Have a foolish dalliance with the Suez before giving up the Empire and C. Eventually realize their destiny as the top producer of documentaries, literary adaptations, and TV shows Obi loves...

Wanna bet how well the Palestinians will react to being not only denied a state, but being placed under protectorate status, again, considering what happened the last time that happened?

I'm guessing they'll take it about as well as Ireland would if the UK called tomorrow and said "Sorry, you're not actually a state, you're a protectorate, we were just pulling your leg...submit kindly, please, don't want to start a scuffle in front of the Queen to Be Kate, now, do we?"
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Why are Africans getting a hard time in Israel? Because of this perception that it's a Jewish state and they don't belong there."

I won't say that's not a reason (because racism is universal) but...that's not THE reason.

THE reason is that African immigrants often come from nations that are heavily Islamic...and anti-Israel...

And so, when you have a nation that's ALREADY on high alert 24/7/365 from the (very real) prospect of getting rocketed or bombed by Islamic terrorists...

You can understand why a bunch of immigrants from African nations that hate Israel with a religion that's being bent anti-Israel might be treated a bit poorly, even though of course some of those African immigrants ARE just immigrants and ARE just trying to get along and thus ARE being persecuted unfairly.

It's not that they hate the color of their skin or non-Jewishness...

It's that they're afraid they'll get BOMBED by these people because, hey, they look like the people bombing them and are coming from areas that are or are sympathetic to those that are bombing them.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
Obiwan don't talk about Africa and embarrass yourself. Many of these divisions that produce violence in contemporary Africa were externally imposed as well, or developed after independence. And the borders are arbitrary in Africa, yes, but a far more relevant point is that borders are arbitrary to begin with.

The conflicts between the Jews and Palestinians are explained by Scenario A, namely that the state of Israel is not willing to use force to ensure peaceful cohabitation, and more importantly, that it often actively pursues communal violence as a state.

Pro-Israel people like you never see the irony that Israel has become exactly the kind of xenophobic and toxic place that Nazi Germany was that they so often use to justify their own oppression. Like I said, fighting fire with fire.

Why don't you address the treatment of African immigrants in Israel, and whether that is likely to improve if Israel names itself a Jewish state, as long as we're talking about Africa?
Putin33 (111 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
The boundaries were not arbitrary. Europe has plentiful natural frontiers. Africa does not. Nor did they have stable sedentary populations. Many of them were migratory and/or nomadic. How do you draw ethnic frontiers in countries where people are constantly moving?
Putin33 (111 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
What is remarkable about Africa is that, despite the boundaries being called 'arbitrarily', inter-state conflict over territory has been more rare than any other continent, and the African states are the most vocal in upholding the inviolability of boundaries.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
Racism is a social problem, like theft or graft, that can be contained with good policy, if not eliminated. The policy of cordoning ourselves off physically in armed camps by naming ourselves "Jewish" or "white" or "Muslim" states is counter-productive to that aim and so should be discarded if progress against racism in the world means anything at all to you.
mapleleaf (0 DX)
23 Feb 14 UTC
obi, I find your hate speech to be quite offensive. I demand an apology, and that you retract your hateful comments about non-Jews in Israel.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
So your Germany parallel (hello, Godwin, I was wondering when you'd pop up! Damn, and I even mentioned Russia instead of Germany!) doesn't really follow through--

Jews really were considered as not fitting into the Wagnerian sort of ideal of Deutschland that was created, and that was the cause for the violence...

Whereas the discrimination towards Africans in Israel now is not a cause but an EFFECT of being attacked by people who come from those regions or else those regions' having been or currently being sympathetic to those doing the bombing.

In Germany, it was an inherent nationalized dislike of Jews.
In Israel, it's a circumstantial distrust of Africans because of what's going on NOW.

Let those bombs stop going off for a few years, and I'm willing to bet Israel will be a lot more tolerant...if they fail at THAT point, you'll be right and I wrong.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
Sure, European borders have some basis in natural formations. So what? Why can't a Swiss person enter Italy without being subject to restriction? There is no good reason, outside of appeals to parochialism.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
Point being the Alps may explain that border, but they do not justify it (or make it un-arbitrary)
Putin33 (111 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
Aren't many African immigrants to Israel Eritrean, who are neither majority Muslim nor anti-Israel?
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
As to how I can't convince obiwan obiwan that the US government may one day oppress him because he is a Jew: it is also true that I cannot myself be sure that I will not one day be subject to persecution because of say, my somewhat unorthodox (and indeed anti-nationalist) political views. But the way to respond to this is by safeguarding good policy and upbraiding bad ones. One such bad policy would be to declare Israel a Jewish state. How can you not see the parallel?
mapleleaf (0 DX)
23 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
I think Team U.S.A. Men's Hockey should have their own state, or at least share one with the Wiggers.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"How do you draw ethnic frontiers in countries where people are constantly moving?"

I don't know, but my first move would be to let those nomads figure it out for themselves and NOT impose boundaries that were decided by people hundreds or thousands of miles away. If those nomads really wanted a state, they'd decide their own borders, and THEN if there was a clash the international community could intervene.

"The policy of cordoning ourselves off physically in armed camps by naming ourselves "Jewish" or "white" or "Muslim" states is counter-productive to that aim and so should be discarded if progress against racism in the world means anything at all to you."

I see no reason why there can't be multinational and people-specific countries both.

To try an extremely loose metaphor--

I see no reason why we can't allow for fruit salad that's equally mixed as well as platters that are entirely or mostly made up of grapes or cantelopes or whatever else...AS LONG as every "fruit" is gets a "bowl."
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
*multi-ethnic, I mean, not multinational
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"I think Team U.S.A. Men's Hockey should have their own state, or at least share one with the Wiggers."

Alas, maple, we'd only wind up being shut out of our own country!!! :/
dirge (768 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
@Obi "Again, to Wikipedia...Wigger is a slang term . . . "

Now aren't you the clever one. You get a silver star for that. It would have been gold except you had to look it up in Wikipedia.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
That response, obiwan, is moronic. It's like saying oppression is fine - as long as someplace exists where there is not oppression. Fuck that, that's no kind of world I want to live in.
Draugnar (0 DX)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"As surely as Ireland's an Irish state and Iran's an Iranian state, Israel is a JEWISH state...THE Jewish state"

Fails on the face of it. Judaism (being Jewish) is a religion. Irish and Iranian are not. Israel is an Israeli state sure as Iran is an Iranian state.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Aren't many African immigrants to Israel Eritrean, who are neither majority Muslim nor anti-Israel?"

I've read at least a substantial portion are Sudanese, and Sudan's of course pretty Muslim.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
It's also I might add, a risible double standard. Every nation that exists has some kind of ethnic and religious identity that they can appeal if they want to, but none should. The US may be multi-ethnic, but it is not inconceivable that it could be reconstituted as a white Christian state. This, of course, would be wrong. Just as it is wrong for Israel to become a Jewish state.

The path to peace for Israel is to become a genuine liberal democracy. Not some kind of thinly veiled racist theocracy.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"Judaism (being Jewish) is a religion."

Jewishness is NOT just a religious thing.

At all.

Judaism = the religion, Jews = the ethnoreligious group...

Hence how you can have an Atheist Jew (hi there!) but Atheistic Judaism would be (unless you did some really odd pretzel-twisting there) a contradiction in terms.
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
23 Feb 14 UTC
"It's like saying oppression is fine - as long as someplace exists where there is not oppression."

What part of "give everyone a state where they can be in the majority and free" do you read as "go oppression!" O.o
Thucydides (864 D(B))
23 Feb 14 UTC
Cool, now why don't you work on protecting the rights of Jews wherever they are, instead of advocating for them to set-up an imperialist police state on the shore of the Eastern Mediterranean?

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181 replies
Orka (785 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Variants
How do we get variants on this site?
14 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Designer (Rich) Babies. Someone...
...won't be a ditch-digger.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-25/dad-may-join-two-moms-for-disease-free-designer-babies.html

Yes, the elite are already making their push for designer babies. I'll take my girl 5'7" with "c" cups, blonde (strawberry) and green eyes, please. And Wicked smart...
53 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
25 Feb 14 UTC
Guys - I Found Us a Life Hack
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/10658271/Automated-texts-to-your-girlfriend-Theres-an-app-for-that.html

Anyone that uses this shouldn't have a girlfriend, but at the same time, damn, that could be useful.
31 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Son: "Dad, what's SILVER?"
Dad:..........
54 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Timewarner - Comcast Merger
Will it go through and what does it mean for Net Neutrality, especially since the courts vacated FCC rules governing the internet?

0 replies
Open
PiC (2166 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
join you have three builds as italy
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=136521&msgCountryID=0&rand=18504#chatboxanchor
1 reply
Open
ILN (100 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Most peaceful philosophy
http://mises.ca/posts/blog/libertarianism-they-only-peaceful-philosophy/

Curious about what people will say on this...
6 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
07 Feb 14 UTC
The Good Old International "FUCK YOU!"...I mean, The Good Old Hocke Game...
...is the best game you can name, and the best game you can name, is a US-Gold Medal game! Anyone else pulling for Team USA to kick some Russian ass and win the Gold at Sochi? Any of our Canadian WebDippers proud of their awesome squad looking to defend their title? Any chance Putin wants to stand by Real Putin and that big, bad, high-powered Russian squad?
326 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Dirty Internet tactics
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
3 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
24 Feb 14 UTC
(+1)
Obama's first good decision
Like a dead clock that's right two times a day, Obama made a good decision.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/us/politics/pentagon-plans-to-shrink-army-to-pre-world-war-ii-level.html?hp&_r=0
Congratulations Americans.
63 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
19 Feb 14 UTC
The Liberal (AKA Anti-NRA/krellin) Gun Club
http://gma.yahoo.com/gun-club-liberals-un-nra-010923198.html
"She has no use, however, for the NRA's conservative political agenda... Its mission, she says, is to provide "a place for gun owners to talk to other owners about neat gun stuff, without having to hear how the president is a Muslim-usurper-socialist running a false-flag operation." Clearly, Ms. Hoeber's been reading our posts...clearly.
80 replies
Open
oscarjd74 (100 D)
24 Feb 14 UTC
Shouldn't draw votes be anonymous?
I don't mind that cancel and pause votes are out in the open, but I'd expect draw votes to be anonymous. That's how it was when I played FtF and on the email judges. Any particular reason why they are not anonymous on this site?
44 replies
Open
dyedinthewool (240 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
settings
Trying to join anon game not sure how to set settings for this or will it automatically hide my user name
3 replies
Open
shield (3929 D)
25 Feb 14 UTC
Public Press Gunboat
More akin to real life gunboat where we can chat about anything except the game. Does anyone do this? I prefer gunboat because diplomacy just takes a lot of time that I'd rather spend doing other things in my life. However sometimes it would be nice to have the option of sending a public shout out on some topic.
1 reply
Open
Jacksonisboss (30 DX)
24 Feb 14 UTC
new game
join my game of "practice not for points". it is for new players or pros who need practice. it is ppsc, clasic, and one day turns
3 replies
Open
Lackbeard (55 D)
24 Feb 14 UTC
World missing Argentina
Just need someone to full Argentinas spot. gameID=134431

He was doing really well, on 11 SCs
0 replies
Open
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