I'll ask yout eh same question, Nigee...how can so many anti-war people on the left be so gung-ho for abortion?

It's the womans right to choose ...... simple as, don't make it any more complicated than that.

Abortion is murder,
Masturbation is murder,
Non-vaginal sex is murder.

Just kidding lol

I think a better question is why, given that left wingers tend to be very anti-war, do left wing governments start so many of the damned things?

As far as abortion goes saying it is simple does not make it so. Personally I feel it's a damned shame that the unborn baby's father has no say in the matter. I would make it a legal requirement that the father must be consulted (with reasonable efforts made to locate him if he's not around) before any termination can be agreed. For practical reasons the mother should have the final call, but to not include the father at all is abhorrent.

And frankly, whilst I share the view of most UK Conservatives that abortions should be allowed, the argument against them is neither trivial nor easily dismissed.

"I think a better question is why, given that left wingers tend to be very anti-war, do left wing governments start so many of the damned things?"
-Any examples to back up your lunatic statement?

You guys talk about left wing and right wing like they are two pre-defined categories of government

"I would make it a legal requirement that the father must be consulted (with reasonable efforts made to locate him if he's not around) before any termination can be agreed."

Yes, consult the deadbeats while precious moments tick away for women to get the healthcare they need. Brilliant plan.

I think this thread topic is biased. It implies that abortions are something that is done in a "raging" fashion.

@ Nigee

Well, looking at the last Labour Government we have

1999 Serbia
2000 Sierra Lione
October 2001 Afghanistan
March 2003 Iraq

Labour is by no means left wing

Labour is a tricky one. The membership is left-leaning, but the leadership is centrist with some left-leaning tendencies when it suits them.

2000 Sierra Leone is not a valid example, in any case, Octavious. You were asked for examples of left-wingers "starting" wars.

(Just a point of clarification)

@ Putin

Naturally with a mere 24 weeks available (let's play it really safe and call it four months after discovering the pregnancy), a few days to ask the father his opinion regarding the future of his unborn child is totally unreasonable.

How could I have been so blind to think otherwise? I bow down to your infinitely better judgement.

Sarcasm aside, why is calling the potential fathers deadbeats any less an example of vile and unhelpful sexism than calling all the mothers sluts?

@ Jamie

My apologies, Jamie. I was under the impression we attacked the SL Rebels. I was unaware they invaded us.

"Well, looking at the last Labour Government we have
1999 Serbia
2000 Sierra Lione
October 2001 Afghanistan
March 2003 Iraq"

You specifically said left wing, you have to be realistic or your comments come across as absurd ..... Tony Bliar was not a left-winger

Wars can take place before we're involved, you know.

@ Mendax

They can, but I am using the not unreasonable definition of a war we start as a conflict which we wouldn't be involved in aside from the fact we wanted to be. It only became our war when we joined in, therefore we started it.

@Nigs

Tony Blair only achieved power because the Left gave it to him. You're not shovelling that particular turd in front of our door no matter how much you may want to.

The left wanted anyone-but-the-conservatives when it came to Blair's first election, and he managed to ride that wave for about a decade. For all his faults, and there are many, he was a very good politician in terms of his skill at playing the game.

Indeed, and the Devil plays a pretty mean game of chess by all accounts.

Still, to here you lot talk anyone would be forgiven for thinking the Left saw him as a necessary evil instead of worshipping the ground he walked on in the early days :p.

"I think a better question is why, given that left wingers tend to be very anti-war, do left wing governments start so many of the damned things?"
Ok so Tony Bliar the rabid left-wing commie has started more wars then he has had holy communions, do you have a list of other left-wing governments that start loads of wars?
I think we're all here to be educated.... every day is a school day

@ Oct: "My apologies, Jamie. I was under the impression we attacked the SL Rebels. I was unaware they invaded us."

We made a limited intervention in a war which was already raging. Intervening in an existing war is not, by definition "starting a war".

Why are we discussing Tony Blair? Please don't derail threads :)

So here we are then: one wing of a hospital fitted out with incubators supporting ~ 21 week "neonates", while another dumps ~21 week "foetus'" into metaphorical buckets. Analyse that.

@ Jamie

Before we intervened it was a foreign affair that we could have quite easily taken no part in. It only became a British war when we decided to make it a British war. By any measure that matters we started it.

But Maniac is right, we should focus on the robowomb :)

One : only the unsophisticated political followers define a right and left
Two : an accident occurred on a highway where a poster of an aborted fetus was hung over an overpass. People are suing...

Harold Wilson kept the UK out of Vietnam. That alone is more than can be said for any Tory Prime Minister.

And Labour hasn't been 'leftwing' since Kinnock gutted the party.

"Naturally with a mere 24 weeks available (let's play it really safe and call it four months after discovering the pregnancy), a few days to ask the father his opinion regarding the future of his unborn child is totally unreasonable."

Your cutesy rhetoric isn't going to work here. In a country where often there is only a handful of clinics around, and in some cases only one clinic in the entire state, which offers abortion, it's a big pain in the ass to just get to the clinic. Then the women have to wait around while a bunch of men decide that their opinions matter more than women's health, and come back days later, which is difficult for women without means. Meanwhile it could be a very urgent situation which causes women to seek an abortion to begin with, and that waiting has had a disastrous impact on women's health.

As it stands now, already, we have more fake anti-abortion "pregnancy crisis centers" than we do actual clinics. States already mandate absurd waiting periods between counseling and the service. And on top of that you want to mandate that a man who wants nothing to do with the pregnant woman be "consulted" about a decision that doesn't affect his health one iota? Take a hike.

And it's funny the only time you're ever offended by "sexism" or any other kind of ism is if it's directed towards men. And sorry to say but you have to go seek out and find the father to get his opinion on the matter then he isn't part of this relationship as anything but the provider of sperm and no amount of court ordered consultation is going to change that. Are you going to order the men to raise the baby too? I doubt it. Violation of "men's rights" and all that.