How are there still doubters? It's happening; stop denying and help to do something about it...

Climate change cannot be denied. It is fact. Since the dawn of the climates, I might add.

The issue with global warming (as a name) is that one of the predictions of the theory /was/ that a global cooling would occur /due to/ the warming. It seems like a misnomer to naysayers, and so the theory takes a lot of flak.

To deny climate changes is to deny.... Actually, you know what? I'm not going to argue with krellin. I'm just going to slip away quietly. Just gonna slip away...

It's probably for the best. The parallels between the climate change "skeptics" and the tobacco use hazard "skeptics" are quite obvious.

Climate Change can not be denied....without question. Before mankind existed, the climate changed. So it is a natural truth. What CAN be denied is the false notion of man-made climate change, for which there is **zero** evidence.

RECENT releases of data shows that global warming has completely ceased in the last 16 years....ie....temperature is **oh my god...** CYCLICAL and NATURAL.

Oh my....Imagine that...the Earth...the Sun...the Solar System...having their own natural cycle OUTSIDE of man!!

Say it isn't so! Tel me man isn't the center of the universe!!!

You idiots that believe this shit...FIRST: Examine **un-manipulated** data....Second...But down your "Man is God" bible and realize that the universe really does NOT revolve around you...

You people have a religion...NOT a science.

I thought you were muting me, krellin.

Anyway, here's some recent data...

http://skepticalscience.com/still-going-down-the-up-escalator.html

Global warming? Bob Genghiskhan.

As far as tobacco hazards... (slight derail), the tobacco is the least of your worries. It's all the crap big tobacco puts in cigarettes and the fact they using the rotting decaying left over stuff. I'm not saying tobacco doesn't have it's hazards, but if ypu compare the occurence of mouth cancer in chewers and cigar & pipe smokers with the occurence of.lung cancer in cigarette smokers and adjust for the typical intact (most ofbthe former category are casual or daily where as a significant.portion of the latter are chain smokers) you will find it is still significantly higher risk with cigarettes than any other form of tobacco. Big tobacco adds poisons to the tobacco presumably to kill any disease and the taste of rotten decaying tobacco scraps. So if we focused on cleaning up and setting standards for cigarettes, we could do a lot of good without denying people the freedom to choose.

Now, I am a cigar and pipe smoker. But I support bans in public buildings and businesses. Except tobacco shops as it is stupid to tell a shop whose primary product is tobacco that they can't let their customers smoke there. After all, in my 25+ years of smoking, I have never met an employee of a tobacconeer who didn't smoke themselves. So keep the reasonable bams in place and clean up the product. In a generation's time we will have less diseases from it per consumer populace and a smaller populace as they will no longer be as cheap.

Bob -- I told you specifically that I un-muted you for the invitational. don't be a dick.

That being said...you know if you are at all intereted in climate science that the recently released data shows that the last 16 years show **NO** temperature increase...

i.e.....it is bogus "science" at best.

But...more to the point...someone that believes this bullshti tell me what ALL the Global Warming mouthpieces....such as Al Gore...live a life **frought** with excessive energy use...i.e. The advocates are the worst offenders!?!?!?! Someone please explain thsi to me? Should Al Gore be living in a minimalistic shack????? SERIOUSLY!!

If you idiots believe Al Gore...do you emulate his personal behavior? Or are yo lemming to his dialogue?

Oh...wairt...if you are reading this HERE...in this PERSONAL ENERGY INDULGENCE....then you are NOT a true believer....because you are killing the earth for personal pleasure....

tsk, tsk...

Waste of fucking brain cells to even try to have a logical argument with the global warming RELIGIOUS FANATICS....

*cough ad hominem cough*

Unfortunately, Draug, as many other industries have demonstrated, they aren't going to clean it up if they can't cut the same profit…

Hey, that's where government regulations come in, right? Fix something and in return we'll let you fuck up something else ^_^

Delightfully for me, I don't rely upon fossil fuels for my home or office electricity.

Wish I could say the same. I don't control either...

Or just get rid of big tobacco. In London everyone seems to roll their own cigarettes.

But krellin, we're going to disagree here. Before I get to facts, lets start with some pictures.

http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/polar/images/ice_compare.jpg
http://im.glogster.com/media/15/37/58/59/37585985.jpg

And that data is ten years old! A lot has happened since then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/14/arctic-sea-ice-smallest-extent
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/aug/11/arctic-sea-ice-vanishing

Now you may rightfully counter that conditions in the Arctic are going to be more extreme than those in the temperate and equatorial regions of the planet. But warming isn't just going on there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record

There are many good infographics on that page as well as the nice list of the hottest years for the US on record. The top 20 have all taken place in the last 30 years. This year was worst of all, as you may recall.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/18/2012-hottest-year-on-record-federal-agency-says/

Yes, climate change may be natural, but it does not occur this quickly. The little Ice Age came and went over a period of centuries, not 30-40 years.

Also, I think this post comes to you compliments of nuclear energy

It's no coincidence that animal extinction is currently occurring at 1000 times the normal rate. Add that onto the above data/pictures about the Arctic and you have a base to say "drilling there is a really bad idea, as is sticking to fossil fuels even when we know the effects." The research on the effects was done a long time ago; it's time to do something about it… know where your energy comes from and purchase it from an ecofriendly source. There's more to it but that's always a start. Nobody's asking you to turn your roof into a vegetation site or buy $100,000 solar panels for each of your windows.

Even if we all agreed that climate change had nothing to do with humans, would it not still be in our interest to study the climate and alternate energy sources? I mean, we do live on this planet after all and a number of our most popular fuel sources are limited. Don't we want to live in an environment as hospitable to humans as possible for as long as possible?

Dollar signs talk more than our planet, Abge. Funny how paper with a number written on it is worth more than your world...

Well, it helps that I have a home office.

@Bob - What do you rely upon? If you say solar panels I'm going to laugh in your face because the process and chemicals used to male those panels are more caustic to the environment.than the pollutants of burning fossil fuels. If you say windmill farms, refent studies have shown that the temperature above windmill farms.is higher than the surrounding.countryside. The generators inside the windmills, the friction on the blades and the bearings, and the fact that the wind and weather patterns are altered actually have a significant impact on the local climate. AKA climate change.

@bo - I did say make them.clean it up. It is within the power granted the FDA to force cigarette manufacturers to meet certain standards and they do. The problem.is those standards aren't strict enough. The spend too much time.worryimg about flavored tobaccos and.kids and.not enough looking at the killer poisons in a common cigarette and the product used to make them.

"Because the process and chemicals used to male those panels are more caustic to the environment.than the pollutants of burning fossil fuels"

Source please.

Yeah, that's right Draug. It's not enforced though, and big corporations do anything nowadays to get around unenforced regulations. They'll get hit with stiff penalties eventually, but it works for now, and they'll take the chance that they make more now than they pay then.

It's conveniently like Wall Street… they made more for a long time, got greedy, started cutting corners, and it doesn't matter who your President is or what party is in power. Now we're here…

Same goes for cigarettes, same goes for climate change. It's not a theory. Like evolution, it's not a theory; the theory of the matter is what causes it. Nonetheless, we know the effects of what we do and we know the effects of what we can do to fix it. Studies show that if the world went vegetarian we wouldn't have to worry about the ozone, but that's not realistic, so why not try planting some trees instead? It's really easy and I don't know why people like me have to spend so much time arguing for it when it's so simple and would be beneficial even if it's not necessary.

Evolution is a theory. Just because the opposition says silly things doesn't mean it's OK for you to.

No Abge, evolution is not a theory. Natural selection is the theory. Evolution happens.

Sorry, abge. I'm on my phone. It's from a study I read some time.back. Just.like the batteries in an electric car are highly hazardous both im the manufactiring and.in the disposal.after a significantly shorter time.then the life of the car.

At your convenience, I'd like to see that study as I highly suspect it isn't true.

@bo_sox - Please don't take this the wrong way. I appreciate the enthusiam that comes with youth, but that also includes a certain naivete that you will hopefully grow out of see the situation is nethier that simple nor that black and white on any issue involving mankind and.the planet we live on.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_evolution_a_fact

Unbiased source (I'd hope)

@abge - I remember is was in a scientific journal.several years back in my doctor's office. I'll see what I can find.tomorrow. And of.course, the techniques used may have changed since then.