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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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localghost (278 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Retreating to the attacker's province
when attacker comes via convoy - is that possible?
I know that it's hard to imagine such situation under normal rules, but anyway.
38 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
25 May 12 UTC
I've also been an asshole, for what it's worth
WebDiplo members,

I wanted to take a minute to taunt the multitude of players in here whom I have offended.
7 replies
Open
rokakoma (19138 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Do not press the red button - EoG
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rokakoma (19138 D)
24 May 12 UTC
I was Germany. I'm really sad how this game was ruined, so instead of writing an EoG, which I would gladly do, I have to write about why I chose to continue. After France's NMR I voted Draw,Cancel immidiately, later I figured out, hell, let's kill him and draw after. Sadly Turkey was already losing, since italy made a successful Lepanto, so Turkey just decided to CD, which ruined the game further. I'm really angry to both of them, because I had a really good chance to be part of a 3-way. Our alliance with England was perfect and nor him, neither I deserved a ruined game. At teh very end we misunderstood eachother with england, I don't thin he wanted to stab me, he was expecting me to get 2 SCs I guess.

I personally decided I will not tolerate any NMR/CD anymore, especially I will not cancel any game, because somebody decides to force others to cancel, with his NMR. Turkey's move was very unsportmanlike, even though I understand his motivation. I'm pretty sure he will say it was unsportmanlike from us to not vote cancel.

Then came the Russian NMR which made things even worse, at this time I just wanted to save Austria (I tried to support him into warshaw, sadly he didn't take it), kill France, and draw. I wanted to kill Russia, but I figured I cannot do that without losing Austria, who was a clear loser on Turkey's CD and didn't deserve to lose 1000 D.

One more word about France's NMR, and why I continued. Before the NMR, it was obvious France can grab an English SC and he will lose Brest and retreat to Gasc/Pic. I moved to Gasc, to prevent his retreat there. Nor me, neither England made moves as we saw/knew he was going to NMR. (I was sleeping) Bottom line: With or without the NMR France, Germany and England wouldn't have been in any different position. The only benefitor was Russia, for a moment, because France supported him into Norway. So at the end of the day, nothing was different as it would have been if France had moved.

For the record:
As a host of the game, I contacted mods twice. First after France's NMR, asking them to register who was who, in case we cancel, I'd like to know, and I wanted them to secure the information before all of it gets lost. (I was already aware who was who, so I knew, but I wanted to be sure)
2nd, I contacted the Mods to investigate threadID=873875 and possible PMs, because I figured the French NMR had some repercussions both in the Forum and in PMs. I don't think any major violation has happened which affected the game itself, but since it's not my call to decide whether any of us has violated communication rules (including myself) I wanted the mods to decide, check on the thread and PMs.

Bottom line:
I still cannot decide where is the line between continuing/cancelling. Where's the point where an NMR should cause cancel, where is where it should cause Draw, or simply just continue. The thread above was about this. Personally, I'm insulted when I put a lot of effort into a game, my time, my online availability and someone ruins it. I cannot tolerate any NMR, regardless the reason, and most of all, I will NOT save a single point to anyone who NMRs, especially when it is intentional. I guess my resigned line missing on my profile shows pretty well, how serious I am about this. It's a bad situation, but if we cancel each and every case when someone NMRs, who will stop them to use it as a diplomatic tool, to escape from losing. It's quite obvious France would have lost without the NMR, just as Turkey. I'm satisfied with this 5-way draw, I think those got out, who would have lost anyways for sure, and I'm sad we couldn't play till the end with England. :(

Worths to note: Gunboat GR ratings
DILK (13)
DipperDon (90) - I'm surprised
rokakoma (9)
Sargmacher (3)
thatwasawkward (14)
The Czech (5)
Vaftrudner (27)
Zmaj (215 D(B))
24 May 12 UTC
I thought a 7007-pot game would be NMR-proof. It seems it's just like any other game.
rokakoma (19138 D)
24 May 12 UTC
We all thought that ... sadly it wasn't, I'm really curious what happened to France/Russia.
Both of them had their NMRs on weekends, I assume they just couldn't get online in time.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
24 May 12 UTC
NMRs can be seen as a part of the game. Yes they upset the balance and force every player on the board to readjust, but this is a war simulation and unexpected things happen in war. (like in ww1 when the russian army refused to fight germany anymore...)

Shit happens, get used to it.
What I'm proud of from this game: If I may dub it The Scenic Lepanto (though I'm sure it must have a me already) ... Convoying to Tunis, then Albania, and THEN Armenia. It seemed to serve the intended purpose of confusing everyone. While what followed was a little less glorious (Turkey CDing), the landing in Asia still felt good.

What I'm not proud of: Stabbing Austria when I did wasn't a great idea.
Damn Swiftkey... Please change "must have a me already" to "must have a name already" when reading the above post.
Vaftrudner (2533 D)
24 May 12 UTC
I agree that it wasn't a great idea to stab me, but on the other hand, I didn't play well at all. I went for Russia and it just gave Germany a strong position and Italy the opportunity to stab. Then instead of just making the best out of a bad situation I just kind of wavered between Russia and Germany, trying to be useful to someone while accomplishing nothing. I started writing a long EOG but I'm not sure how much my analysis would be worth at this point. I'm just happy I managed to get away with my points intact from that game, I really didn't deserve to.
DipperDon (6457 D)
24 May 12 UTC
I'm not big on end-of-game statements, but I'll add a couple comments.

NMRs and CDs are part of the game. Deal with it. Good players can and do adjust.

We had a long discussion about the subject in the thread mentioned above. One of the most vocal proponents on this site of cancelling games after an nmr is Sargmacher. He only wants to play with people who dont nmr and always seems ready to cancel a game at the first nmr. Countries going cd unbalance the game, or so he says. So I'd be interested in hearing why he didn't submit orders for several turns when his Turkey came under intense attack.

Finally, I voted draw just because I wasn't enjoying the game. I didn't want to stab Turkey, but I also didn't want to risk him building two more fleets. So I stabbed and then decided to draw. I could have ground out a three-way, or maybe even won. But I don't always play to win. I play to have fun. And in this game I wasn't having fun anymore, so I agreed to the draw.
DipperDon (6457 D)
24 May 12 UTC
...I meant "I didn't want to stab Germany,..."
rokakoma (19138 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Previous 7000+ gunboats:

Gunboat Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry-7, pot: 7000
gameID=56629
Won by Babak (F)
EOG: threadID=717992

Gunboat means never having to say you're sorry-14, pot: 7000
gameID=71433
Drawn: Babak (I), jmeyersd (G), Lando Calrissian (F), stratagos (A)
EOG: threadID=803786

Bye, points., pot: 7000
gameID=75444
Drawn: Lando Calrissian (E), Mujus (A), zultar (T)
EOG: threadID=815813

Bye, points: The next generation., pot: 7000
gameID=78257
Drawn: Lando Calrissian (F), Babak (T), Barn3tt (A), SplitDiplomat (I)
EOG: threadID=824666

Live The Changes You Want To See In The World, pot: 7007
gameID=79015
Won by Barn3tt (R)
EOG: threadID=830969

付け足し〔不戦勝者〕、ポイント〔点〕, pot: 7000
gameID=80337
Won by The Czech (T)
EOG: threadID=841210

Sargmacher's 1000 Point Challenge, pot: 7000
gameID=83521
Drawn: Sargmacher (T), rokakoma (F), Vaftrudner (G)
EOG: threadID=855365

Barn3tt's Bigger, Better and Badder Challenge, pot: 7007
gameID=83551
Won by Barn3tt (F)
EOG: threadID=858759

زورق مدفعية, pot: 7063
gameID=85561
Won by DipperDon (R)
EOG: threadID=871043

Disgrace, Coetzee, pot: 7763
gameID=86120
Drawn: Sargmacher (F), The Czech (I), Dilk(G), Barn3tt(A)
EOG: threadID=870629

Do not press the red button, pot: 7007
gameID=88274
Drawn: DipperDon(E), rokakoma (G), thatwasawkward(I), The Czech(R), Vaftrudner (A)
EOG: threadID=877741
The Czech (39715 D(S))
24 May 12 UTC
Sorry for my NMR. I missed the deadline by seconds. I was so pissed. I am like Sargmacher and cancel if there is a NMR/CD in 01. After 03 I pull it. This game did disappoint because of the 2 CDs and my NMR. I am willing to go around again if you all want.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
Thanks, Czech. Yes, I also apologise, to those players who voted cancel, for my CD. I was also extremely disappointed with this game and I shall explain why I abandoned it.

I have never experienced an NMR/CD in any passworded gunboat game of this nature before now. I do not join games of this nature to have an NMR or a CD occur. For live games such play is to be expected but passworded high buy-in games like this should not, in my view, be tainted in any way by NMRs and CDs. I think this is unfair to the people who have put in quite a lot of their points to play a fair, balanced game.

As such, my feeling was that the game should be cancelled. 5 players immediately voted to cancel and 2 players did not - perhaps non-surprisingly, the 2 players who were to take most advantage from the situation (France/DipperDon and Germany/rokakoma). Incidentally, Italy (twa) was one of the countries who did vote to cancel, despite a NMRing France being in his favour, and for this I respect him even more as a player on this website.

When the two profiting nations were not voting to cancel, I raised my concern with rokakoma, who created the game. My concerns fell on deaf ears and I was effectively told to "drop it" and that "this issue is closed and I will not have any discussion on it". If I had created this game, I would have handled this situation much differently, especially if the majority of players were voting to cancel. I think it was a great shame that this game carried on despite the state of play and the clear majority in favour of a cancel.

So, I decided that the only way I could express my opinion on the game was to abandon it, rather than support it in continuing to play. The points don't mean that much to me anymore, I just would rather play a fair, fun game untainted by such things. Personally, my feeling is if you want to play a game where you can reap the benefits of NMRs and CDs, go fill your boots in live games, but don't waste people's time in games like this.

I shall certainly take stock from the way people handled this game and I am especially disappointed by the fact that DILK has not bothered to explain his actions, despite coming online since this thread was created.
DipperDon (6457 D)
25 May 12 UTC
So Sarg, you deliberately went civil disorder while while your country was under attack, further destroying the game, all because France made one relatively inconsequential nmr in '03? He was already clearly going down, missed one single turn without great effect, and that allows you to choose civil disorder?

And again, you're arguing here like the other thread that majority should rule on cancels. But you refused to reply when I questioned you on whether you allow majority to rule on draw votes when you're headed towards a win. Maybe you'll answer now? And please tell us how we're supposed to know when cancel votes of the majority should be followed, and when not. Draw/Cancel are used for negotiating tools all the time in gunboat. You know that. There's another big pot game just ended where all but one player were voting to cancel for years, and no nmr had even happened. Should the lone holdout have given in then instead of going for the win? Do you have any black and white rules on majority rules for cancel/draw, or is it whatever Sarg decides is good at the time?
DipperDon (6457 D)
25 May 12 UTC
The big pot game where eveyone was voting to cancel was this one: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=85858 Everyone but Austria and Russia were voting to cancel. And who led the Cancel votes from early in the game? Germany=Sargmacher.

Why were you voting to cancel that game, Sarg? Maybe for diplomatic purposes? Hmmm?
DipperDon (6457 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Not one nmr in that whole game Sarg. I just rechecked it turn by turn. So you're clearly using cancel votes to try to help your position in games. And it is equally clear you try to cancel games where an nmr might hurt you. And you admit to going into civil disorder and ruining a game while you were under attack instead of playing it out to the end like a man. What a wuss.
dubmdell (556 D)
25 May 12 UTC
DD: People on the forums have readily admitted using cancel for diplomatic purposes in gunboat games (this isn't directed at you Sarg, just a prior observation, I don't remember names tbh).
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
@dubmdell: I actually have DipperDon on mute because I find him impossible to deal with.

However, to clear up the issue that you are discussing.

Re: gameID=85858

As usual, you are entirely wrong and misrepresenting the situation. The country of Germany had been forced into CD by the mods because that players was banned. The game in question, however, had in no way been affected by his banning and the game was advertised on the forum as needing a replacement. I replaced that country, as the need to do so had been requested.

After I had joined and entered moves, many other countries were voting to cancel. I have no idea why - the game was in no way affected by the replacement - however, I put up a cancel vote as well as a show of respect to the people that felt the game had been tainted.

I was trying to support those players - I was not leading a cancel vote and cancelling the game would certainly not have been in my favour - I think I managed to pull off a good job in that situation and secured a place in the draw. And I got messages of thanks for replacing the CD Germany by a number of players involved in that game.

You are an unsportsmanlike player, DipperDon - but worse than that, you are consistently rude on the forums - the tone of your messages are too often malicious for my liking. As I have said before, I have no desire to play any further games with you, especially not after your vitriolic messages on the forum and sent to me via PM. Thankfully, we won't be in this situation again, as I will keep my promise to not participate in games you join and I will, regrettably, keep you on my mute list (which, I seldom use, and only has two other names on it).
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
@dubmdell: Sorry, to avoid confusion, the first sentence is for you, the rest is in reference to DipperDon.
I said it a long time ago - a man who whine first when someone doesn't vote cancel because "it benefits the one" like he said,it's actualy first who ruines games as soon as he sees he is losing points.It's allways like that - whiners do whining because they are familiar with such stuff,I've seen a lot of his "canceling" in my games... But he is ranked number one in chatting,that's for sure. You can mute everybody but the fact remains.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
SD: That's easy for you to say but I think there is a general consensus of how much of a sportsmanlike player you are. I actually defended you a number of times against the swathe of people who regularly come out to criticise you.
And I thanked you for that.But that doesn't mean I should lie about you in the future. You know I'm telling the truth about this "canceling" stuff from some of our games and I know when others have that "general consensus" about me they are talking out of jelousy,when I ask them to give the prooves for the accusations they go offline immediatly.So from such people a man even has no need to be defended.
DipperDon (6457 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Lol. Sarg claims to have me on mute while taking shots. Hiding behind mute so he can avoid answering my questions is even more proof that he's a pussy.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
SD: "You know I'm telling the truth about this "canceling" stuff from some of our games "

No, quite honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Like The Czech has said already, there is a common policy amongst a core group of top players/gunboaters on the site: if an NMR or CD takes place before 1903, cancel or draw. It's quite simple.
DipperDon (6457 D)
25 May 12 UTC
I don't know you SplitDiplomat, but I think we've both concluded Sarg is a dirtbag using cancel for his own benefit.
DipperDon (6457 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Sarg (I know you're reading this) why don't you man up and admit you let Turkey NMR to convince others the game was ruined so they would cancel. That was your only hope of not losing, right? Admitting you're a dirtbag is the first step towards recovery.
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
25 May 12 UTC
Sarg, since when does "a common policy" translate into "throw a temper-tantrum and quit if you don't get your way"?
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
In what way did I 'throw a temper tantrum', MadMarx?

I left the game and made no fuss about it - I did not create a storm on the forum or refer to the game in any way.

I don't mean this disrespectfully - but I fail to see why you even need to have an input on this and why you even think you are qualified to judge me.
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
This is an EOG, where everyone is giving explanations, I am not on trial - there is no need for such petty and warped attempts at character assassination from people not even involved in this game. I am not the root cause of the problem here - I merely reacted to it.

I respect people have different opinions on how to handle such situations - I and rokakoma have had friendly private discussions. It is people like DipperDon who instantly go on the attack with offensive, petty language that is unhelpful. As far as I see there is no reason why SplitDiplomat and you MadMarx, should need to wade in to this. I respect you as a player but you could be employ a bit more wisdom on the forum.
MadMarx (36299 D(G))
25 May 12 UTC
To me, quitting when *everyone* doesn't agree with *your* unwritten rule *is* throwing a temper-tantrum, especially when you know that sort of thing ruins a game, a game that numerous others have invested time and energy into... In my mind, I envision seven people sitting at an actual board playing a game of diplomacy, you silently standing up, knocking the board off the table, and quietly walking out of the room... As you say, I know very little about the situation, but it's an entertaining visual and I couldn't help but comment... intention being to tease out a bit more info to help you all get on the same page, have a group hug and live happily ever after...
Sargmacher (0 DX)
25 May 12 UTC
Well, my suggestion would be don't quit whatever your job is, if you have one, to become a mediator. Insulting those you're tying to patch together with your 'entertaining visuals' might not be conducive to your stated task.

Have you even bothered to read the whole thread on this occasion? My leaving the game was not the first step here - I was responding to someone else's NMR. 5 players were voted to cancel after that, not just me.


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83 replies
cspieker (18223 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Just Kill France DAMMIT!!
Next in the series of the DAMMIT gunboat discussions
5 replies
Open
shield (3929 D)
25 May 12 UTC
How do I leave a game?
??
2 replies
Open
worm (161 D)
25 May 12 UTC
Newbie question - NMRs
What's the convention here when one or more powers NMRs from the start of a game?
3 replies
Open
Stressedlines (1559 D)
25 May 12 UTC
if there are any mods on
Please check the email in regards to me sitting for someone. He accidently sent me the wrong Password in his PM here to me. He has many games going, and I do not want him to CD on all those games, so if someone can look at the email, and the PMS he sent me to verify it, let me know.
0 replies
Open
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
25 May 12 UTC
Looking For Fill In For Full Disclosure Game
Weve got 2 games that need a replacement:
Game 2: classic, anon, WTA 50 D, buy in, 36-hr phase
Game 3: classic, anon, WTA, 25 D buy in, 36-hr phase
0 replies
Open
eskel96 (693 D)
25 May 12 UTC
join this game!!!!
everyone please join this game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=89815
0 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
25 May 12 UTC
diplomacy scenarios
So, a scenario can simply be lifted from mid/late game of any board (a finished game) You need new victory conditions, so some players now have a goal of achieving a draw, or the weakest ones just need to avoid elimination... meanwhile one/two players might have a solo as their goal...
2 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
25 May 12 UTC
Latest article on Benelux geography in Gunbotats
https://sites.google.com/site/webdiplomacylinks/home/webdip-submitted-content
Thanks to President Eden for letting me use this...
(in case you missed the thread first time around...)
4 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2601 D(B))
24 May 12 UTC
R U a cyberpunk?
Think you're hot shit because you troll the webdip forums? Ya'll ain't shit without a pocket voltmeter.

http://gizmodo.com/5913004/are-you-a-true-cyberpunk-consult-this-90s-guide-to-find-out
8 replies
Open
Zmaj (215 D(B))
24 May 12 UTC
EoG: Live Gunboat WTA-16
15 replies
Open
cspieker (18223 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Just Give Russia Sweden DAMMIT!
Talking about Gunboat games here, and why Germany should stop bouncing Russia out of Sweden.
22 replies
Open
Strx89 (100 D)
24 May 12 UTC
This move should succeed...surely? gameID=83854
gameID=83854 F(MES) was supporting F(LIB)-(AUS) and this not resulted in any success, without AUS having any form of support.
5 replies
Open
Dan Wang (1194 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Please finalise Italian orders in "I've got me a gunboat!-11"
Don't post here if you're a player in this game (gameID=89100), but if you're Italy and happen to read this, please finalise your orders instead of only saving them during each phase. It slows down the pace of the game greatly.
3 replies
Open
dD_ShockTrooper (1199 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Addition to the rules to make the game more accurate:
Russia should be forced to not make any moves (civil disorder) during the year 1917. Additionally during the builds phase at the end of 1917, if Germany still controls all of its home centres, all territories belonging to Russia apart from St.Petersburg, Moscow, and Sevastopol, transfer ownership to Germany.
56 replies
Open
cspieker (18223 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Cheating accusation button
It seems to me that there are cheating accusations on forum EVERY DAY. Often times there are more than one per day. This site is not really well set up in terms of people being able to figure out how they are supposed to handle this. Or at least, it's not well enough set up to prevent mulitple cheating accusations in the forum each week.
5 replies
Open
Maettu (7933 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Need more players
... for a regular WTA game. gameID=89412 (hopefully) starts in 8 hours!
1 reply
Open
brainbomb (290 D)
24 May 12 UTC
Whimsy-shire level Diablo 3
http://www.complex.com/video-games/2012/05/diablo-iiis-hidden-cow-level-is-called-whimsyshire

I cannot believe this is real has anyone actually gotten to this? the cow level D3 version
3 replies
Open
BrownPaperTiger (508 D)
24 May 12 UTC
"Left" & CD
Can someone point me to the explanations of "left" and "CD" and the criteria?
Thanks
1 reply
Open
Chanakya. (703 D)
23 May 12 UTC
Sitter required.
I need a sitter for around two weeks, I need to go to my village wiyh no connectivity
8 replies
Open
greysoni (160 D)
24 May 12 UTC
pontential cheating on "gunboat-283" game.
Bizarre level of cooperation between England and France.....could a Mod take a look at it? or how do I contact a Mod
23 replies
Open
SacredDigits (102 D)
24 May 12 UTC
I need one person in the next 6 hours, please
gameID=89589

48 hour phases, semi-anon, the game is intended for people that are down on their diplo luck lately. The password is 3595
2 replies
Open
thatwasawkward (4690 D(B))
22 May 12 UTC
If a tree falls in Livonia...
... does it make a sound?
6 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
23 May 12 UTC
Reshuffle
So, I'm watching The Thick of It and they keep talking about a reshuffle. Would someone from the UK care to enlighten me on exactly what this is and why it is done. AFAIK, this is not a standard thing in the US.
11 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
24 May 12 UTC
A Christmas Present for a Jewish/Atheist/Aesthete? The Great Gatsby 2012 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARN6agiW7o
I have to be honest, I was really skeptical about this when my friends and I first heard about it...and I STILL don't get 1. Why the hell it's in 3-D (why does a period piece on tragedy of the American Dream need 3-D?) and I'm no Leo fan, and I don't see DiCaprio as Gatsby...and Luhrman is not my favorite director, but...all that said...this trailer gives me real hope, looks epic!
13 replies
Open
Octavious (2701 D)
23 May 12 UTC
Life and death political issue!
Every now and then we get a chance to make a real difference.
Every now and then we can really change the world for the better.
This is one of those times!
8 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
22 May 12 UTC
Gay marriage and disgust...
'several studies led by Yoel Inbar of Tilburg University in the Netherlands have found that conservatives are more easily disgusted' see: http://www.newscientist.com/mobile/article/mg21428655.700-why-gay-marriage-divides-the-world.html
35 replies
Open
MarshallShore (122 D)
23 May 12 UTC
Petition
To the Admins - Please boot anyone with overly offensive names (e.g. HITLER69).
+1 to show your support please!
57 replies
Open
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