No. she is a war hawk and a corporate schill. I would call you something nasty for voting for her, but you're voting, which means you already have a bunch of ill-conceived notions about how america works.

Because the best thing to do is not vote, then complain bitterly about the failure of the democratic process. Duh.

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

Sicarious is right, everybody knows it's the five jew bankers who run the universe.

I greet you from the deeps, where Neptune never sleeps!

?

She had my support in 2008, so she will have mine again.

Sooooooo...

Wait a minute.

If I vote, I'm not doing anything and letting the government control me as you say...
If I DON'T vote, I'm letting the government control me as you say...
And if the government controls me as you say anyway, it DOESN'T matter who I vote for...

So why are you so opposed to Hillary, if it really doesn't matter?

Logical faaaaalacyyyyyy...

I stopped paying attention to american politics when you idiots elected that nigger president.

Shut up, mapleleaf. I might not like Obama, but I'll be damned if some filthy Canuck trah talk my president.

I could almost ,almost, see myself voting for her in 2016. She's done a fantastic job as Secretary of State. It says a lot that her greatest achievements (sans Armenia-Azerbaijan, a near failure) are the places were Obama has had next to no input. I don't think I'd like her domestic policies, but as diplomat she's been a pleasant and welcome surprise. I wish her the best.

Unless she ever were to run against Mitch Daniels, of course.

"I would call you something nasty for voting for her, but you're voting, which means you already have a bunch of ill-conceived notions about how america works."

Sic +12.

"everybody knows it's the five jew bankers who run the universe. "

You're full of crap. Everyone knows white Protestant New Englanders run the world, and the Universe is run by the Intergalactic High Council (who have decided the WASPs don't yet deserve a seat at the table).

Admitted Lies

• Chelsea was jogging around the Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. (She was in bed watching it on TV.)
• Hillary was named after Sir Edmund Hillary. (She admitted she was wrong. He climbed Mt. Everest five years after her birth.)
• She was under sniper fire in Bosnia. (A girl presented her with flowers at the foot of the ramp.)
• She learned in The Wall Street Journal how to make a killing in the futures market. (It didn't cover the market back then.)

Whoppers She Won't Confess To

• She didn't know about the FALN pardons.
• She didn't know that her brothers were being paid to get pardons that Clinton granted.
• Taking the White House gifts was a clerical error.
• She didn't know that her staff would fire the travel office staff after she told them to do so.
• She didn't know that the Peter Paul fundraiser in Hollywood in 2000 cost $700,000 more than she reported it had.
• She opposed NAFTA at the time.
• She was instrumental in the Irish peace process.
• She urged Bill to intervene in Rwanda.
• She played a role in the '90s economic recovery.
• The billing records showed up on their own.
• She thought Bill was innocent when the Monica scandal broke.
• She was always a Yankees fan.
• She had nothing to do with the New Square Hasidic pardons (after they voted for her 1,400-12 and she attended a meeting at the White House about the pardons).
• She negotiated for the release of refugees in Macedonia (who were released the day before she got there).

With a record like that, is it any wonder that we suspect her of being less than honest and straightforward?

lol sicarius i think this pic would be right up your alley

http://www.flickr.com/photos/savetheclocktower/1227075/

that comes from my lovely hometown of Austin TX. thats why i told pandora she should have visited austin to cope with texas. we even have anarchists!

Anyway I don't think I would vote for Hillary. She's too... establishment. Bill's wife? I mean come on. We already had a son.

There's far better candidates in 2016 than her.

Thankfully her and Biden don't seem to run our foreign policy, otherwise we'd be at war every 4 seconds. As it is Hillary got us into Libya, along with Power and Rice.

I think Sherrod Brown would kick ass, or maybe Cuomo. But I'm from Ohio and New York, so I'm biased. My real preference would be an Obama 3rd term.

No, Putin, I think Cameron and Sarkozy got us into Libya. Let's be real.

A good Democrat 2016 nominee could be uh... potentially... actually I have no idea. I'm not too optimistic that there will get another Obama for a long time. And that's a damned shame.

Actually, I'd love it if Nancy Pelosi ran. She'd also kick ass.

Well Cameron and Sarkozy had no influence on whether the US got dragged into it. Obama I'm pretty sure despises Sarkozy. There was a split within the Obama admin and the Clinton hawks won.

I mean sure maybe he does. They still got us into it. But so what... we were right to go.

I'm not a hawk dude but I'm not a pacifist either. But we've discussed Libya enough.

Out of curiosity can I ask what your source is regarding this split within the Obama administration, I'm familiar with the factions in the Bush white house but no so much in Obama's. I could tell Biden and Clinton were sort of on the same page though.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19policy.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.thenation.com/blog/159346/obamas-women-advisers-pushed-war-against-libya

Actually to be fair to Biden I'm pretty sure he was against intervention in Libya.

Whats so great about obama?

Siccy I'd answer that if I thought there'd be any statesman ever in the history of the planet that you respected or thought was decent.

I'm sure theres at least one. somewhere.
'm not trying to start an argument, I just really dont know why you (whoever) seem to look up to him so much. His policies are not much different than bush.

^ lol word. funny to watch our resident extremists disagree.

But anyway what's so great about him is that he at least tries. Haha. Which is a pretty low bar but... I mean.. you take what you can get I guess

I feel like they're pretty different, a lot more social justice in there. A lot more attempts to support the middle class. Etc. Most are failed or ineffectual but they're at least there

That would be an interesting thread though. Statesman from history you respect the most or believe had humanity's best interests most at heart.

Also, this, from the NYT article:

"Ms. Rice was an Africa adviser to President Clinton when the United States failed to intervene to stop the Rwanda genocide, which Mr. Clinton has called his biggest regret."

"biggest regret"? Yeah no shit. I should think stronger words might need to be used. A million lives on your conscious and it's just your "biggest regret." What about "ever-present agony and eternal shame" or something... ai ai ai

Siccy, no offense, but I'm pretty sure you'd try to claim that FDR had the same policies as Bush.

I have no patience for dealing with the GOP = Democrats meme, especially considering the existence of the tea party. It's just too absurd to even bother responding to.

putin there are a lot of similarities.. you cant ignore them. chomsky's "business party" comes to mind, there is a lot of sense in that. in some areas and in some periods, the differences between them really are mostly cosmetic.

also, bacevich's assertion that US politicians of every stripe are basically only concerned with one thing - expanding the american empire, opening markets, growth, etc., is pretty damn accurate.

Obama and Bush, A massive, unbridgeable chasm of difference in policy.


Foreign Policy

Iraq. Under Bush, Iraq confirmed they wanted the U.S. out. Obama is implementing this strategy, though most troops will stay until 2014, U.S. troops continue to be killed and wounded. After that, thousands of non-combat troops will stay.

Afghanistan - Obama has "surged" Bush's war in Afghanistan.

Pakistan - Obama continues Bush's policies of pre-emptive strikes by air striking Pakistan several times so far, killing Taliban and innocent civilians.

Saudi Arabia - Obama bowed to the king, Bush kissed him and held his hand.

Israel - Obama continues to send weapons and billions in aid to keep Israel armed and a threat to middle east peace.

China - Bush said and Obama is saying please keep buying our treasuries.

Gitmo - Prisoners remain there after being "closed". Abu Ghraib - Reports are conditions may have worsened.



Domestic Policy

Economic stimulus - Both put out economic stimulus plans.

Corporate banker bailouts - Both support and are implementing TARP

National deficit - Both have/are increasing it exponentially

Education policy - Both are using failed No Child Left Behind has the key feature of federal intervention.

Energy policy - Both continue reliance on $700B/day in foreign oil.

Patriot Act - Obama continues the support of Patriot Act, wiretapping U.S. Citizens, FISA, and excusing telecoms for this unconstitutional activity.

Faith based initiatives - Obama has expanded the faith-based office, now renamed the Council for Faith-based and Community Partnerships

Gun control - Obama supports a ban on "assault" weapons, so did President Bush. (They have defined "Assault" as a gun that shoots one bullet for one trigger pull, same as a hunting rifle, but looks scarier)

Transparency and legislation - Bills continue not to be read by Congress before being voted on. (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act)

Signing statements - continued

Lobbyists working in the Whitehouse - continued

Cabinet - Obama continues Bush's policy of appointing longtime washington insider criminals. In Obama's case, it's tax evaders: Dachle, Killifer, Solis, Kirk Siebulus, Geithner. Secretary of War - same.

Sorry but the RPF, and not Clinton, bears most of the responsibility for the failure to stop the genocide. RPF over and over again prevented international troops from coming into Rwanda and refused to work with the government to help stop the crisis. Rice and Power are horrible opportunists who manipulate tragedies in order to justify their bloodlust.

Are you serious, Putin.

You really think the US wanted to stop Rwanda but couldn't? No. We could have stopped it, but didn't because we didn't want to. All you're saying is the RPF made it a little harder.

"Saudi Arabia - Obama bowed to the king, Bush kissed him and held his hand."

Is this seriously relevant? Also the thing about buying US bonds... it's like you're saying "They both said God bless America in their speeches..." it comes with the territory dude.

You ignored their differences on environmental policy, you ignored their differences on taxation and stimulus measures, you ignored their differences on infrastructure, and on education policy.

Race to the Top, for instance. But whatever.