According to their profiles, they have played no games together before.

The game didn't even start yet. You have no proof that they are cheaters. That is why nothing happened.

There is nothing wrong with playing games with your roomate, as long as the 2 of them do not play as though to affect the outcome of the game... Meta-Gaming

I have played many many games with 2 of my co-workers, and we always play each game mutually exclusive of the others and without bias. Some games we might end up making a very tight alliance... Others we might end up fighting each other from the start.

SHAME on you for reporting something with no proof and then complaining nothing was done.

Austria has not even entered orders for the first turn. (The turn goes over in about 5 min). So I don't think we have to worry even if they are room mates. (I am in that game).

Chester -100

If you have reported this to the mods using the official email address, please be aware that there is a backlog at present but it will be dealt with.

Look now, he have destroyed the unit in Venice... They are friends and never attack each other... This is not fair

Chester, for fuck's sake! What part of "don't post cheating accusations on the forum" do you NOT understand?

MattG - what you are doing is wrong. Don't play with friends unless you have made absolutely sure all other players are unformed in advance and have agreed to it. Don't dare say "shame on you" to someone else - you are cheating.

Ivo - MattG isn't in this game and, even if he were, don't post cheating accusations in the forum. For fuck's sake man. Follow the fucking rules.

@Ivo_ it is not metagaming to play with people you know, provided you play fairly. It is worth bending over backwards to be fair, not least because it can be hard to tell as a mod, and you want to be totally clear, but there is nothing unfair with playing with people you know.

"Don't play with friends unless you have made absolutely sure all other players are unformed in advance and have agreed to it"

Draugnar, Ghost, do you really have a problem with this statement? Care to elaborate?

Draugnar - I'm not posting any cheating accusations. Stop repeating the same thing regardless of whether it's relevant or not. Nothing that I said constitutes breaking any rules. Why do you need obvious things explained???

I know MattG is not in the game - but his example was wrong. Playing with friends, especially roommates, gives an unfair advantage. You know each-other better, can talk about the game ftf, etc. One can buy the other a beer or something.

I'm not saying anyone is doing anything intentionally - but that it creates a situation in which some participants may feel, rightly or wrongly, that the game isn't fair.

When playing with friends and the like you don't get the benefit of the doubt (innocent until proven guilty) - it's your responsibility to make sure others are aware and have agreed.

"provided you play fairly" means nothing... totally subjective.

@ Ivo_Ivanov:

"MattG...Don't dare say "shame on you" to someone else - you are cheating"

"Draugnar - I'm not posting any cheating accusations."

One of the above statements must be false.

Chester is a pretty cool guy. He accuses obviously innocent people of cheating on the forums and doesnt afraid of anything

Ok, let me explain, clearly it's needed:
1. I believe when a new player comes to this site, enters a few games, and encounters what looks like cheating, the first response should not be "shut the fuck up". Abgemacht's response was ok, most others weren't.
2. I don't like it how people like you and Draugnar, who clearly find pleasure and a sense of achievement in telling others what to post and playing forum police (I though we had mods for this), jumped on the poor guy. This is done constantly. Then there's MattG - who clearly doesn't even know the rules, but is fast to assign blame and shame to others.
3. In my book, someone starting a threat is a lesser offense than cheating. If someone placed a forum accusation then it is only normal that he is explained, in a nice a decent manner. Chances are he's victim of cheating after all. Instead we always get ten morons jumping in a repeating the same old "don't post...".
4. Having one or two cheating-related topics can only be of some help. If someone keeps posting baseless cheating accusations - fine - but surely this is not such a high offense to require public humiliation and finger-pointing. I repeat - in many cases it turns out these accusations may be valid.

So, jamiet and draugnar - how about you stop pretending to be mods and posting in every other threat what people should post and not - especially when it's irrelevant.

Jamiet, that's not true. It's not an accusation because he's admitted to what he is doing already...

And that IS cheating, by the way.

Ivo and abgemacht are the only two here that are being rational, listen to them.

I have been leaving the noobs alone lately. But this idiot said they play every game together and are roommates when this the first time these two have ever played together and there is no evidence they even know each other.


MattG said he played with coworkers. Not roommates. This is very different as you only tend to see your coworkers at work. And for all you know he does declare the friendship when entering the game. But your talk of buying each other beers and what not is an accusation of metagaming and doesn't belong on the forum.


As far as posting the accusations goes. The mods have said not to do it. This has been discussed ad nauseum but the fact remains that the mods have said don't do it.

As far as beibg the forum police. The mods are *not* here to be forum cops. They have said as much. We had a discussion sometime back and the community is to delf-moderate. Guess what! That means *we* are *suppossed* to be the forum police.

So your opinion does not conform to the community's nor the mod's.

Draugnar, I get you, but please keep in mind that cheating is the bigger offense and when you feel someone is cheating the least helpful thing is for a bunch of other guys to also insult you for it.

Draugnar +1.

Btw, how is coworkers any different to roommates. Most people spend more time at work than at home (sleeping excluded) :)

It is different. If you're roommates, one might assume that you'd chosen to live together. Most people don't have the luxury of choosing their co-workers.

Your talk of the 'Community' being it's own police force sounds like Communist propaganda - we are all the police, everyone is watching. It seems quite clear that the 'Community' is not a homogeneous group that all agrees to your world view of how the 'Community' should deal with things.

I totally agree with your point about delf-moderating though - unfortunately not everyone knows the rules prior to posting, may not know where to check, and some people are just thoughtless or insensitive to the 'Community' - so you get these examples of people posting cheating accusations. In the same way though, as a Community I think it is equally abhorrent to have others thinking they have the right to swear at people and be downright offensive (as opposed to helpful, as abgemacht was in this thread).

@ivo: We onyl have two active mods, and they're busy enough without having to scan the forums for things that shouldn't be here. Draug and Jamiet (whether they're being a little harsh or not is irrelevant) are helping out the already-overworked mods. And as far as the "unfair advantage" gained by playing with a friend, roommate, co-worker, pet fish etc, the same could be said of the more experienced players on this server. If I played a game with, say, Marx and Babak, I would have no right no complain that they knew each other better, had an advantage over me and were therefore cheating. Sure, maybe you can buy your friend a beer - that's metagaming (or really it is only metagaming if your friend changes the way he plays because of it - personally I wouldn't) but you can't assume that everyone who plays with someone they know is going to cheat.

Ivo +1. :)

@ Sargmacher: "some people are just thoughtless or insensitive to the 'Community' "

Yes. Like Chester was being in this case. He continued pushing his cheating accusation even after a mod had told him the forum wasn't the proper place for it.

@Jamie: Absolutely.

Guys, let's not take this out of proportion. The "don't post" brigade got in, I overreacted a bit. This will always be a divisive issue I think.

Fair enough.

My main point was that Draugnar's implication above was that his actions in the forum were motivated by a desire to 'help police' the 'Community'. He specifically told another member that "Your opinion does not conform to the community's nor the mod's."
How can anyone think that is an acceptable thing to say? I actually agreed with some of what Ivo had said.

Furthermore, Draugnar's first 'helpful' comment on this post was the following:
"Ivo - MattG isn't in this game and, even if he were, don't post cheating accusations in the forum. For fuck's sake man. Follow the fucking rules."

I don't know about the 'Community' - I'm going to be arrogant enough to say I could speak for them but that kind of language doesn't conform to MY standards or ethics for dealing with others.

And you keep pointing the finger at Chester...

Yes, he probably deserves to be banned for this.