Win
Draw
Survive
Die

In that order

No figlesquidge:

Win
Draw
Survive
Screw whoever kills you+die
Die

But he's talking purely about points here.

heh, guess so.
And yes I know what he's talking about, but its not something that should be supported! PPSC exists to encourage people to play to the end, rather than dump out early. They certainly shouldn't be given more reasons to play for a 'good second'.
I accept my comments have bumped it, but hey

Hey, now. I agreed (and do agree) with you. It's Strong Second For Dummies (and a reference for the rest of us!), not "This Is A Good Idea, So Follow It," after all!

I think this could more be an encouragement to go for the win at the cost of losing your ability to draw than anything else.

The two different formats encourage slightly different behaviors, which I believe make for an interesting game in both cases. WTA ends up promoting more altruistic behavior in the the mid to end game, which can get very annoying if you have 16 SCs and are closing in on the win.

Hey Eden, my game in which Italy got stabbed (despite our warnings to him) is probably going to result in a win for Turkey because Italy is foolishly attacking us hoping to get some points out of it in the end rather than standing unified with the rest of us and trusting us to keep him alive. This wouldn't be happening if it were a WTA game where there are no points for surviving.

Yeah, I stopped playing PPSC when some tool threw the game to get no more than 20 extra points when a 3way was more than possible to achieve.

After the GFDT is through, I won't be playing PPSC any more. It's fine if you can get into the lead, but sucks if you are tryign to stop a solo.

I wouldn't be at all sad if PPSC was removed, but I know it does have its place in helping people start off

Honestly, I think people only want PPSC so bad because it's an option. If the site started off with WTA, I don't think people would be complaining, asking for PPSC, like they did with WTA. If we were to get rid of it right now, people would bitch a bit, but I don't think anyone would leave and after about a month, I think everyone would forget about it.

With refills of your 100 , there really is no reason for PPSC. I'd just as soon see it yanked.

Thats an idea: could ask kestas to disable it for a month or something.

Grr, was still writing.
Thing is I think its a good way to get people to start, particularly new players.

The best option would be having just WTA, but with a deposit...

Why is PPSC a good way to get started? It seems like it would build bad habits. And how would a deposit work?

Because it encourages you to play to the end, whereas a new player in a WTA game is more likely to give up completely.

Deposit: Dunno what ratio, say 1/5 of the bet, would go into the deposit. This would be returned to all players who finished the game, no matter what state this was in (dead/surivive/draw/victor). This would be separate from the pot, and would solely act as an incentive to finish the game

I agree about the bad habit-forming.

I like the deposit idea.

I third the bad habit forming. When I first started here, I was scared of WTA. But only because I didn't understand how most games end in a draw so there really isn't that much more risk. I guess PPSC was a good idea at the time, but the eventual consequences of encouraging playing for a strong second is a problem, IMHO.

I also like the deposit idea. But I would like it to be settable, rather than based on a proportion of the pot. For example, I might want to have a 5 buy-in but with a 100 deposit. Low pot game but restricts who can play. Or eventually a 0 buy-in but with a deposit.

*most WTA games end in a draw...

Yes, that would be a very good way of making sure people don't bail w.out having huge pots.

And if they bail, there deposit it distributed amongst all who didn't quit, even if they were eliminated.

That, or just disappear?

But we'd have to make certain the auto refill system didn't refill deposits.

I support disappears.

Again someone else suggested this on the dev forum, but can't find where it's gone.

Yeah, doesn't make any sense if you just regenerate your lost deposit.

I think the abandoned deposit should go to those who played it out. If I lose because a player went CD giving the game to someone(s) else, then that share of the deposit is what pays me back for my investment.

Regarding refilling to 100 , that is a bit of an issue. If you refund the deposit when someone is eliminated, that would be the time to refill to 100 , but you don't know if they are going to get some extra points or not due to a CD. If you hold the deposits and refill until the end of the game, then no problem. But that ties up points.

I'd lean towards letting them have the extra points. If the deposit is big, then they won't be getting much of a refill after they get their deposit back. If the deposit is small, than any points they get at the end of the game when the deposits are split up will be small. A little something extra to say, "I'm sorry your game was fucked up."

@figlesquidge & peterwiggin

"Win
Draw
Survive
Die"

Stop telling people how to play!

Why not:
"Draw, Win, Survive, Die"? Why not "calculate your GR points for a win, including the chance to get a win; calculate your GR points for a draw, including the chance to get a draw, and only then decide which should come first - win or draw"?

People, stop telling other people how to play, and stop judging what are "good" habits and "bad" habits!

@Bask

Diplomacy is a game. Like most games it has a clear objective. That objective is to win. It is stated in the rules. It cannot be argued.

GR is a measure of your ability at Diplomacy. That should mean that if you play correctly, you get more points. Being able to "game" GR is an artifact of an imperfect system, not an accomplishment.

@Bask
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe WTA more accurately reflects the original design of the game. Ergo, PPSC teaches new players a flawed strategy for this original design. Honest, however, I just don't like PPSC because I learned to play WTA and am pretty set in my ways =)