Scary enough as it sounds, if Obama really doesn't stand a chance of winning in 2012, I think Hillary might have a chance at it. For once people actually seem to like her, oddly enough. (I disagree that Obama has been totally ineffective, but this is a debate that I do not want to have) Also obiwan^2 I respect your optimism in saying that you don't want to see an Obama bashing debate in this thread. You mentioned Obama, someone is going to start bashing him.

We have an anarchist among us

I want the terminator to get the president spot. I liked how when he got Govenator, they tried to pass legislation to make it so people not born in the US could be president for him. But it FAILED muahahaha and a 20% approval rating, Asta la Vista baby, you are not coming back ;D

So, who'll win?

Like I said, Stephen Colbert! :p

OK, seriously, my Top 4 Rankings:

1. Hillary- She's tied to the health care bill now, so that could be either a huge hindrance or a big boost if it does start doing well. Either way, she's a woman from a traditionally Blue state, her strong personality might attract more in the middle or middle right (somehow I can't see here NEARLY as wishy-washy as Obama...really, I almost feel bad for the guy, do you realize he's gone from this hugely optimistic youngster who was loved by a majority ot a now-greying man who can't make a decision without someone new sticking in their knife, if he even makes a decision at all...he almost seems like an over-eager, straight-A's, Student Body President who suddenly got thrust into the REAL political world and was totally unprepared) and, well...she DID live in that House for 8 years already, she probably knows her way around somewhat.

2. Palin- I hate her. You know that, I know that, moving on...she isn't going away. A woman (and that does matter- we like to feel like we're progressive here in America, and now that we've elected a non-Protestant in JFK and a minority in Obama, the next great "progressively elected President" will likely be a woman, especially given the strength of Palin and Hillary), a reputation, earned or not, as a maverick, and able to appeal to those Tea Partyers, and a knack for staying in the news. Oh- and she can see Russia from her front porch! (Sorry, had to.)

3. A Tea Party Candidate- If this happens, I might just have to leave. I lean to the left, I generally lean away from the right...I stomp my foot down on the Tea Party. But it's got quite a following, seems to be growing, and those followers are ferverent, could concievably put together a strong political machine...

4. A Fresh-Faced Newcomer- We don't know him or her yet, but in every race it seems there's that unknown that has a good run at it, and people don't trust the government, so who knows...

Oh, and one more prediction- Ron Paul will lose again. :p So what do you all think?

Actually as secretary of state Hillary can claim (probably truthfully) that she had absolutely nothing to do with the health care bill. I saw an editorial the other day actually, she's being very very hard-nosed on foreign policy, and that's actually won her a lot of points with independents and moderate republicans.

Truth be told during the '08 primaries I was rooting for Hillary. If any Democrat has the balls necessary to stand up to the Republican lie machine and the tea party nut jobs it's her, ironically enough.

@Maffaliagator:

Well, he did get the healthcare and stimulus bills through, and those were huge pieces of legislation (the former being a Democratic dream since FDR) so he does get some credit for that, I suppose, even though some of that was due to the Democratic leaders in Congress, when they weren't bickering amongst themselves.

But when you promise as much as he did, and the economy really doesn't improve
(in places it's better, but in others it's worse, and as I couldn't land a job with Bush in office and now, two years into Obama and with more and more chances, I still can't get one despite my best efforts, it's hard for me to really get behind him...after all, the best way for an unemployed person to be convinced the economy is working again would be...) and get kicked around by the Democrats, Republicans, media, other nations' leaders...

Again, I just think he came in with a lot of hype that he himself believed, and he really wasn't quite ready yet. How much any president could have done about this mess is debatable, and as Obama in my view has mostly just been ineffective cleaning up the messes he inherited rather than causing his own (the BP Oil Spill being the exception there, his leadership was simply lacking there) I won't call him a bad president so much as just not an effective one, a nice, guy, and certainly someone whom I would expect to do good, and probably better, things once out of office.

Jimmy Carter II, ladies and gentlemen. ;)

I see your point. Yes, he hasn't lived up to his initial promise.
To be fair, Jesus would have had a hard time living up to Obama's initial promise. That I am willing to concede. I suppose I jumped on you when what you were saying was totally reasonable. He's not as ineffective as Jimmy Carter. That's just not fair. Obama could at least fight off a rabbit.
But yeah he gets a lot of guff for being "the worst president in history!" etc. and I'm kinda tired of hearing about that. I think however that there is a chance he will serve two terms. He may not be completely approved of, but he isn't totally despised either. We'll see in 2 years time I suppose.

And yep, Hillary has been pretty decent as Secretary of State.

I once thought I'd be dismayed if she had a shot (this was way back when I thought we'd be out of Iraq in a couple years and that Alex Rodriguez was an example of a good, clean athlete...yes, I was young and foolish back then...) but I've warmed to her in the last couple years, and now yes, I would like to see her in command, not least because if she was the nominee for the Democrats, that'd almost certainly sink Palin's bid, taking away some of the "women's vote."

Come to think of it, in retrospect, maybe Hillary should have been our president in 2008 and Obama her Secretary of State or some other post in the branch, so he could have had some experience; that won't happen now, obviously, just sayin'...

May I ask what is so wrong with the Tea Parties? Are you people just so Pro Obama and Anti-republican that you can't handle protests against him in totally legal ways?

No I just think that tea partyists are incredibly misguided. They're allowed to protest him, they're just factually and logically incorrect.

And yeah, tired of hearing that, especially from FOX/Right-wing talk radio and TV.

I think Dubya has a FAR stronger case for a Bottom 10 vote than Obama...

And it's just ignorant of history to say that, James Buchanon literally saw the country break apart on watch (pretty bad when and he managed to break the one rule, the one stone-cold, non-negotiable or partisan rule of being a president, namely, Don't Have the Country Blow Itself Apart On Your Watch) and Andrew Johnson nearly re-ignited the Civil War...interesting two of the worst president should sandwich one of if not the greatest in Honest Abe, and then Hoover scewed the pooch in the Great Depression until FDR...well, wasn't too great at first but by the end became one of the Top 5, so I guess all's well that ends well.

Plenty of worse presidents.

The by far worst ruler in the history of the US was King George third (Technically he did at one time rule what became the USA) He taxed the people into one of the greatest revolutions of all time against the British Empire

He's going to get re-elected if he runs.

The GOP will take over Congress and will bungle it.

Think Clinton and Newt.

@killer:

-I realize not all Tea Partyers are, but there's certainly a sizeable sect in some portions of the country that seem to have serious racial/racist issues (or really really REALLY bad PR people, you make the call)

-I find many of their attempts to make a point via analogy (ie, "This is socialism, just like ___") to fall flat. A weak analogy or statement is one thing, but when your party accuses Obama of acting like a facist and a socialist and a communist- you either have no clue about what those political theories actually mean or you do and choose to fling them around anyway jsut to make Obama sound bad/worse. You cannot be facist and communist, at least if you take the ideologies as they are given, and socialism is not the same as facism or communism, and cannot and should not be lumped in just to give another scary-sounding word to America, and on top of that while some of his policies are rather on the left side of things (what would you expect with a Democrat president, anyway, as if McCain would not have, for his liberal leanings here and there, acted more in line with the right), they are not in line with socialism and DEFINITELY NOT facism or communism. So Tea Party Buzz Words- all talk and little to no substance, jsut what they're allegedly coming out against in Obama...

3. I also don't care for the whining over taxes and really can't stand the moaning over big government from them. No one likes taxes, and whether we're paying too much is debatable, but it's not as if this is Nottingham and the Sherrif just lifts your cash and you get nothing in return. You get roads, hospitals, buildings, policemen, firemen, police and fire departments, public schools (OK, maybe that's only a half-credit here, they're so lousy), and a military to keep you safe. No big government? Sorry, but this isn't 1930, as much as the Great Recession makes it feel like it sometimes. America is no longer an isolationist country as it was to an extent in 1930 or, say, 1903. America's not just a world power, it's a superpower, with bases and business, for better or worse, all over the world. We are currently in a war across a vast stretch of land on the other side of the globe. Our economy is in dire straights, and a lot of that ecomony is predicated upon global trade. A small government doesn't work for America anymore the same way baby booties don't quite fit a 20-year old's feet anymore.

I have more, but there's a good start...if she counts, Palin would certainly be on that list as well, consider her an honorary #4 choice...

"-I realize not all Tea Partyers are, but there's certainly a sizeable sect in some portions of the country that seem to have serious racial/racist issues (or really really REALLY bad PR people, you make the call)"
Many tea partyers are not racist, just the few that end up on TV and get all the attention are. TV can only show the small minority, go to one yourself and see if you think a large portion are racist.

Obvious left bias in most media outlets are why you hear so much about racism in the Tea Party. It's nothing to do with bad PR people (though getting better ones would help) and everything to do with the fact that all the major media outlets have an obvious political agenda that obstructs their ability to report the news accurately.

As for President? I hope, pray and vote Ron Paul, but unless the Republicans wake the fuck up and stop being stupid, it will never happen. (Incidentally, from what I've gathered Paul is considered the strongest Republican candidate against Obama in the polls... but the Republicans won't elect him.)

Elect me President....oh wait..... I don't want to have to deal people wanting to stay in the lincoln bedroom every five seconds...its mine!!!

If GW can get re-elected, Obama doesn't have a thing to worry about, and I have no idea who will win in 2016, but my money's on Hillary.

Great, now this thread shall turn into the Bash Obama, Bash GW, Bash Republican, Bash Democrat thread

obiwan made it clear he did not want any Obama bashing going on, so I hope people continue to honor that, I know I will.

yes, so go ahead and start the Bush bashing thread. He got re-elected didn't he? So all of America must not have hated him being president

Thanks, MM.

So it'd seem we have at least some here who think Obama has a shot- but why?

I mean, it wouldn't be the worst choice, as ineffective as he's been thus far I'd still prefer Obama over Palin or Huckabee (Romney I'm on the fence about), but he has some pretty low approval ratings, and is now half way through his first term with hardly any change in the economy he was elected to fix; he needs something big to regain support.

Someone above, though, actually made a comparison I thought was fitting and might be applicable here- the Clinton/Gingrich showdown in his first term. He seemed to be losing out to him, and yet won out in the end, so maybe if Obama can turn things around and become more of a force things will start to look up for him, and he did do waht even Clinton couldn't get healthcare passed, so we will see...

@killer:

No one is bashing Bush right now, for once I'm trying to0 have a thread where we don't divide into our usual battlelines and start a war of words.

Besides, this is about 2012. Not 2000, 2004, 2008, or 1788- just America Chooses 2012.

Forgive my ignorance of Yank elections, but if Obama decides he wants to try for another four years of failing to close Guantanamo Bay and not quite passing environmental laws (sorry, couldn't resist ;) )will the Clinton woman and other Democrats even be allowed to stand for election?

LOL Octavious...I forgot that one, I was really pleased when he said he was going to close Guantanamo Bay, his first act, and of course that'sset the tone for his presidency- he has lofty goals and vision but can't close things out and get things done.

I think it'd depend how well or how badly his next two hyears are; if they're alright, then he'll likely face some Hillary rumors, but since the in-power party doesn't like to usually split support, and standing against the sitting president when he's theirs would seem an admission the party was wrong, generally not, but of course there are exceptions, so if he's Obama-dible overthe next couple years and the country comes to loathe him, you give the people what they want (or, more precisely in politics, you at least PROMISE the people what they want, and then maybe yank the rug out from underneath) then it wouldn't be a stretch to see Obama booted out by his own party, especially with such a strong candidate as Hillary.

But as of now that's a long, long shot, he'd probably get the nod again.

Obi-

Here's my view: As long as Democrats hold on to the majority in Congress and have a battle going on in 2012 for that majority, I believe Obama will run again. I highly doubt that the Democrats would risk losing the majority AND having a non-incumbent run for the presidency. One of the only things going for the Democrats (at least at this point) is that they're mostly all behind Obama. If you throw Hillary into the mix and have a democratic primary between the current president and his secretary of state, well, that's just ASKING for the Republican nominee to steal the white house.

As far as winning, I currently believe that Obama will be elected again. As much as I'd like to see someone else (perhaps Romney, after all he DOES have an economical background and I believe that if elected he would actually be fairly moderate since he had to deal with a lot of Democrats in Massachusetts) win, as long as the incumbent has somewhere around 40-50% approval rating, they rarely lose. They have the money AND name recognition which is a huge advantage when the masses of people who don't pay attention to politics come out to vote. And he does have 2 more years to improve the economy after all. Not that everything will be perfect by then, but a modest improvement in the economy/unemployment rate combined with the incumbent factor *should* be enough to get him reelected. I guess we'll have to see in 2 years though won't we?

"This is not an invitation to slap around Obama, or Democrats, or Republicans. Obama's, simply put, a lame duck."

Way to talk out both sides of your mouth there ObiWan. Obama isn't halfway through his first term. By definition he can't be a lame duck until he decides not to run in 2012 or loses that election. While America has figured out that he's not the messanic figure many pumped him up to be, it's a little early to apply the single term label.

I seriously hope that Obama isn't elected for a second term. We definitely need a stronger leader and I think that we could definitely find that in Hilary. She's been in the game for a LONG time and definitely knows how to play it well so I hope that she runs and wins. The GOP basically have no candidates........at all. Palin is really just a joke and America would be stupid to elect her (it would just be like another Obama administration). I don't htink that the Tea Party groups will be organized or united enough to pull a real political front/party together that has a legitimate chance of winning, but wherever their votes do fall they will most likely have a significant impact in deciding the election.

Just my two cents.