Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Joverholt (100 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
F Sev move to ?
Can a fleet in Sevastopol move along the coast to Bulgaria or Constantinople? Or is it limited to movement into the black sea and Romania?
5 replies
Open
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
19 Nov 09 UTC
Cars
So I just got my permit today, and I'm wondering what some of your favorite cars are. First cars? Absolutely terrible piece of crap cars? Any cars, but a story to go along with them is appreciated:]
32 replies
Open
doofman (201 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
bored so lets live game it
come and join ay
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15632
1 reply
Open
denis (864 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
NEED a SITTER FAST
just for the weekend
3 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
Live Game come join
5 D 5minutes
7 replies
Open
superchunk (4890 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
Cmon girlies, need one more for a 5min phase live game
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15617
1 reply
Open
AK47 (116 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
New Guy
Greetings Fellow diplomats! I am a new guy looking to play some Diplomacy. Be Kind I'm not great at this game. I made two games to start me off here. They are called New Game Fast Turns and New Game Fast Turns-2. Please Join! I'm definitely Interested in meeting some people on this new site (I frequent another diplomacy site, and figure i should play some new people)
11 replies
Open
PrettyLadyShay (100 D)
10 Nov 09 UTC
Im bored lets talk alil
come lets just talk ^^
110 replies
Open
MrMirCannae (100 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
Join the live game
Cabbage Soup Why?

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15609
4 replies
Open
JPhelps84 (339 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
anyone up for a live game?
enough said...
33 replies
Open
maokt (547 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
all moves are ready, but the game does not continue
In game 14191 we have all placed our orders, and all have the green ticks to confirm this, but the game is still waiting for the time out before continuing. It's been doing this for quite a few turns by now. What can we do?
6 replies
Open
Red Squirrel (856 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
Live game tonight
gameID=15604

Join up
20 replies
Open
dave bishop (4694 D)
20 Nov 09 UTC
Better Live Game
5 min phases for a fast and furious game
4 replies
Open
Lord Alex (169 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
What do the different colored bars beneath people's names mean??
I played on php but i have never played on the new version, and i couldnt find this in the faq.
4 replies
Open
brokev03 (100 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
Live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15601
0 replies
Open
StevenC. (1047 D(B))
19 Nov 09 UTC
Live game anyone?
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15599
4 replies
Open
fetteper (1448 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
live game!
live anon game! ppsc 15 D
gameID=15597
4 replies
Open
PBSmassacre (0 DX)
19 Nov 09 UTC
A Live Game? Yes. Here it is, kind sir.
1 reply
Open
z76z76z76 (100 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
livegame
anyone?
1 reply
Open
lightbringer76 (100 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
A/T in a gunboat
How much cooperation would one generally expect between the two of them?
1 reply
Open
JECE (1248 D)
16 Nov 09 UTC
What percentage of games have a winner?
I was wondering what the probability was that in any given game you would win. I thought it was just one divided by seven, which gives you 14.285714 repeating %. But then I remembered that games can end in a draw. But I don't know what percentage of games end in a draw, so I couldn't advance further. Without this statistic, we can't say much more than that you have a less than 14% chance of winning.
29 replies
Open
jman777 (407 D)
12 Nov 09 UTC
Ankara Crescent
We'll be using the 1816 rule book, so make sure you read up because the rules changed quite a bit in the last 200 years.

I'll start us off by using the standard Dutch opening (munich to belgium).
132 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
19 Nov 09 UTC
All my games times reset...
Not a big deal except for a 10 day game that was about to run and suddenly we have to wait 10 days again.
1 reply
Open
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Birds, Bees, and the U.S. Government
I may not have time to reply (but I'll probably be interested in what you all have to say, so I'm sure I'll at least read your comments) but I figured I'd share this essay I just wrote for anyone who wants to read it.
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rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Birds, Bees, and the US Government
When a baby bird is growing up, there comes a time when the mother bird begins to dangle the baby’s food outside the nest, forcing the baby to crawl out and get it. Frequently, this will result in the baby bird falling to the ground, and hobbling in pain back to the nest, only to try again. But eventually the bird learns to control his fall, and in doing so, begins to learn to fly.
Why does the mother do this? If the pair was human, we might say that the mother is sadistic and enjoys seeing the baby suffer. We might say that the mother doesn’t care. We would probably arrest the mother on charges of child abuse. But could it be that the mother knows that the only way to teach something is for the pupil to suffer the consequences of their actions?
At the beginning of the semester, my physics professor put up a quote (I couldn’t find the attribution) on the first day of class saying that, “Teaching is creating situations in which students can only escape by thinking.” It seems to me that this is a doctrine we’ve lost in modern society. It’s now considered inhumane to force people to suffer the consequences of their actions when they refuse to think.
It’s (apparently) immoral to turn someone away at a hospital because they jumped off a two story building when they were high on hallucinogens and don’t have insurance. (True story: A relative of my roommate did this and <b>wasn’t</b> high on hallucinogens) It’s (apparently) immoral for me to not want to fund a national health care program that would spend 80% of its budget on preventable conditions that people were too lazy or too stupid to seek treatment for. And it’s (apparently) immoral for me to oppose the subsidization of programs that ultimately enslave people to the path of least resistance.
I must just want to see them suffer, just like all of the other evil conservatives, right? I must be too selfish and greedy to have any empathy for their situation. At least that’s what I’ve been told. But perhaps there’s another motivating factor. Perhaps I want them to learn from their actions, so that they don’t make the same mistake again.
A friend of mine once illustrated this point by answering the classic question, “Should you give a man a fish, or teach him to fish?” Her answer was that you should do neither, because the person will not have learned to think for himself, and when he moves away from the shore, he will starve again. It is only that starvation that will teach him to think, and then he can teach himself to fish. Delaying that starvation, and denying him the opportunity to learn is one of the cruelest things you can do to a person.
I’ve never understood how a fundamental law of nature understood by every creature large and small eludes a significant portion of the human race. To quote The Matrix, “You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect.” A bee stings me, and I learn to avoid bees. Cause and Effect. It’s the way nature works. And the ultimate effect of entitlement programs is that people cease to provide for themselves, because they remove the causes that naturally drives people toward production.
This holds true even when the public is given “options”, because while there are options in the strictest sense, the market more closely resembles a monopoly. In the education market, it takes work to research and choose a private school, and that’s on top of the additional cost. Thus, typical families choose public schools, which may or may not be a better deal, largely because the government facilitates that choice, and makes it easy. This tendency towards public schools drives down competition, and gives the government, in essence, an unfair monopoly on the market.
Thus it perplexes me why we want to model our health care system after our education system. The evidence on our schools is clear – we lag behind practically every industrialized country on the planet. Do we think that that is a good system after which to model our health care system? We may not be mimicking this system consciously, but they are essentially the one and the same. The “Public Option” is no different from public schools, and the results will be no different from any monopoly – innovation will be stagnant, prices will be high, and inefficiency will abound.
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Eww. It wasn't double spaced. Sorry about that. Wish we could edit posts. :-(
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Also, the html formatting for Facebook is still apparently there... I fail.
Hibiskiss (631 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Not bad other than the fact that you equate people with medical emergencies resulting from dumb luck ( or a greedy manipulative system built on treating health problems for maximum profit instead of preventing them) with idiots that are personally responsible for everything that happens to them and their inability to afford the inflated health care costs.

Not everyone is as fortunate as you or I.
Centurian (3257 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Is this essay for school? Because if so you need to polish it up. But i won't give you tips unless thats what you are looking for.
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@ Hibiskiss:

I wasn't addressing my solution (I have one, but intentionally didn't talk about it) but rather the problems with a public option.

@ Cent:

Nah, it's not for school. I just publish them on Facebook for me and my friends to discuss.
ottovanbis (150 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Are you assuming that all Americans are stupid? This sounds like the whole let's punish the whole for the mistakes of the few (while the rich get richer argument). I don't consider what you're saying immoral (because morality is relative anyway), but I think it is a bit of a blanket statement. You do have a valid point in that people should learn for themselves, but isn't his essentially the "pull yourself up with your bootstraps" argument, that's what it sounds like to me.
SteevoKun (588 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
The problem is people don't seem to realize that the vast majority of people without insurance can afford it (the Democrats want to cover people whose income is as high as 80,000 dollar per year) but choose not to buy it.

The rest of the people without insurance (those who actually cannot afford it) are supposed to be covered under medicaid, but unfortunately that program is full of corruption, doesn't cover everyone it should, and in general is a masterpiece of ridiculousness. If Medicaid were doing what it's supposed to do there'd be no need for the public option.

The real problem is Medicaid (if the Democrats are going to fix it anyway, like they claim, then the public option is definitely not necessary by any means).

Oh, and if you read the House version of the bill it requires everyone in the nation to be registered with the Federal Government - if you take the public option you have to register as such, if you don't take the public option you have to register as such. Big Brother anyone?
Jamiet99uk (860 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@rlumley: "It’s (apparently) immoral for me to not want to fund a national health care program that would spend 80% of its budget on preventable conditions that people were too lazy or too stupid to seek treatment for."

The problem is that in your current system, people also have to pay for the initial preventative treatment. If you had a proper free healthcare system people would be more likely to seek treatment at an earlier stage.


"In the education market"

The problem is that education should not BE a market. The shape of an education system should not be based on the desire to make profits. I am totally opposed to private schools - assuming all that money does pay for a better education, this simply fosters class division by ensuring that the wealthy get the best education. We should be striving for a system where every child gets the best possible education, not just those whose parents can afford to pay for it. In the USA, a large proportion of politicians send their children to private schools. This gives them less incentive to improve public schools, because their own children are not effected.

We should force those in power to use publicly-funded schools and hospitals, and to travel in ecomony class on public transport. If they don't experience normal life, they won't have sufficient incentive to want to improve ordinary people's lives.
The government is way too big as is. The last thing we need is another omnipowerful bureaucracy running amok.
Gtlblx (919 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
On the healtcare you can just reread Hibiskisses post to get my opinion.

On the education has it crossed your mind that you might be lagging behind because not enough is invested in public education?
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Well, I intentionally tried not to suggest any solution, because that's not what I wanted it to be about, but I do have them. You all seem to be ascribing opinions to me that I don't have (And intentionally didn't mention.) :-P I didn't propose a system, but I do have one. Also, I don't really mind giving out free healthcare to people who are getting some exercise, not smoking, and not eating deep fried Twinkies for breakfast, so it's not really a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" system.

@ Jamie: Everything should be a market. A market is the best way of innovating and producing, and it's fairly well accepted that pure competition is the best way of establishing growth.

Also, you'll note that I never said the government shouldn't subsidize education (Vouchers anyone?) but rather shouldn't run the schools themselves. If the government can run a low cost school, so can a private individual.
SteevoKun (588 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Education in the United States is definitely not in an acceptable condition; however, I don't think completely getting rid of private schools is part of the answer.

Even if many (or most) private education institutions were to go away there are some situations where private education is really a matter of a different choice as opposed to an objectively better choice. This is most especially the case with regards to religious schools. If parents want to send their children to religious schools, where their beliefs are an integral part of an approved education system, then that's their prerogative.

Something that might help to improve education is to make the teaching profession (at the high school level and lower) more serious. People (in my experience at least) tend to treat professors on the university level as academic specialists, while teachers on lower levels tend to be regarded as glorified bureaucrats.

While I don't entirely disagree (with regards to certain individual teachers I had in school), what we need to do is raise the bar - for everyone. A huge issue we have in general (both in America and with humanity in general) is our expectations. People tend to rise (or dive) to your expectations for them. If school were treated more as a young person's job and less as a chance to have fun and maybe learn something, we would probably see improvement. Not to discount the ability of making something interesting to impact students' success, but the goal is to learn and to develop life skills, not to entertain or babysit.

School-aged children are allowed to get away with so much, so little is expected of them - especially in poor or minority schools in many cases, where many do not graduate from high school - that they don't bother, or are embarrassed to succeed. The movies "Finding Forrester" and "Remember the Titans" both address this issue (specifically within the African American community) and the way it causes people to settle for less than their full potential.

I know these are only a few ideas in a sea of problems, but I think fixes these issues could go a long way toward fixing our general problem concerning education.
Arhain (101 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
It is pretty funny watching how wrong so many Americans are about healthcare. fyi Canada and Australia are doing fine with it, also there is this continent called Europe.
SteevoKun (588 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
FYI Lots of people still travel from Canada to the United States to receive treatment the Canadian system refuses them.

No system's going to be perfect, but the American system can be fixed without creating a whole new government-run health care program (in addition to medicaid/medicare). If you haven't noticed the American Federal government already has way too much control over way too many things it has no business being involved in.

To boot, the federal government also can't handle the financial responsibilities it already has. Both political parties constantly make promises about cutting costs to fund new programs, and it rarely (if ever) happens. This is just further weigh down our already financially inept government.

Additionally, the American Constitution gives no power for this sort of thing. In the United States this sort of program would be legal on the state level, but is unconstitutional on the federal level - though the point in the previous paragraph is far more important in my view.
DrOct (219 D(B))
03 Nov 09 UTC
You mention our failing public schools, and say they are falling behind other countries, but it's my understanding that most of the countries we are falling behind ALSO have public school systems, so it seems pretty clear to me that being public isn't an inherent problem, it's in the implementation.

I could also point out that there are plenty of places in the US where the public schools are excellent. The public school system I spent most of my time in is considered one of the best school systems in the country. We had people from outside of our district pay tuition to send their kids to our public schools because they were good enough to compete with private schools for people's dollars. Just because something is public doesn't mean it's inherently bad.
DrOct (219 D(B))
03 Nov 09 UTC
@rlumley - "Everything should be a market. A market is the best way of innovating and producing, and it's fairly well accepted that pure competition is the best way of establishing growth."

I strongly disagree. I think that MANY things benefit from markets but I absolutely do not accept that EVERYTHING does. Markets are simply a tool. For many things they are a great tool for generating and distributing wellbeing, but they are just a tool, and are not well suited to every situation.

More and more I do not think providing Health care is something that's best served purely by market forces.
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
"You mention our failing public schools, and say they are falling behind other countries, but it's my understanding that most of the countries we are falling behind ALSO have public school systems, so it seems pretty clear to me that being public isn't an inherent problem, it's in the implementation."

While that is true, there is no educational system that subsidizes a private market with no public market, to my knowledge. That's essentially the system I propose.

"I could also point out that there are plenty of places in the US where the public schools are excellent."

I know. I went to one. But the vast majority (especially in the south) suck.
DrOct (219 D(B))
03 Nov 09 UTC
@SteevoKun re: The Constitution: See "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper..." and even more relevant "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;"
DrOct (219 D(B))
03 Nov 09 UTC
@rlumley - Well you may propose that system... but that doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was making, which is that while OUR public school systems might be broken (in some places) that the schools being public isn't an inherent problem as you seem to imply in your original essay. Maybe the system you propose would work well, but I would argue that it's not necessary (as evidenced by other countries that have better public school systems). Furthermore, I can see all sorts of potential problems with such a system, that simply wouldn't be necessary if we just fixed our public schools.
SteevoKun (588 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@DrOct

The first quote you mentioned there is out of context, as following that are the things that the Congress can pass laws (if they are necessary and proper to do the things listed). That phrase is not as general as you seem to be implying it is.

As for interstate (or international) commerce - how does that apply to me taking a doctor's visit in my hometown? That isn't even inter-city.

Also, that second quote of yours is the one used to support the parts of the current health care reform effort that apply to restrictions and requirements placed upon insurers, employers, and individuals (which I mostly, if not entirely, support); however, your post has nothing to do with the idea of the federal government providing health insurance.

The one used to validate the national health care idea is the necessary and proper to maintain the country's general welfare. Given the way that's being applied - by both parties - the federal government can do whatever it thinks is necessary and proper, but given the Bill of Rights (the part about the powers not expressly given to the federal government being granted to the states) that doesn't really work within the bounds of the Constitution.
SteevoKun (588 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
Realistically, removing either public or private education from our education system would not be beneficial. However, if we ran our public schools correctly there wouldn't be issues (or at least not as many issues) about quality in one verse the other.

I live in Virginia, and attended excellent elementary, middle, and high schools. In fact, a friend of my mother's was upset upon his son's graduation from a private school that literally neighbors the high school I attended that people graduating from my high school had the same success rate when it came to getting into all sorts of colleges as graduates from his son's school did. Basically he wasted his money because the public school his son would have gone to was such a good school.
Jamiet99uk (860 D)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@ The_Master_Warrior: "The last thing we need is another omnipowerful bureaucracy running amok."

As opposed to private wealth running amok, like we have now?

@ rlumley: "Everything should be a market...If the government can run a low cost school, so can a private individual."

AAaarrrghh! This attitude is just... horrible.

Look, if education is run as a competetive market, then due to market forces the schools offering the best quality of education will be able to charge the highest fee, meaning that only the wealthiest families will be able to afford the best education. That stinks. It's horrible. I'm sick of this kind of attitude.
DrOct (219 D(B))
03 Nov 09 UTC
@SteevoKun - "As for interstate (or international) commerce - how does that apply to me taking a doctor's visit in my hometown? That isn't even inter-city." It doesn't, but it does apply to regulating health insurance across state lines which is what I was talking about...

And as for the necessary and proper clause, you are right it does outline that it has to do with the powers granted in the constitution, I was trying (and clearly failing, sorry I should have been more clear) to connect that with the power to regulate interstate commerce.
rlumley (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@ Jamie: How is this different than how it is now? I'm not saying it's fair - but it is inescapable... Right now, people are trapped in public schools that suck. How is it bad to trap them into private schools that suck a little less?
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@Steevokun - you leave out a thrid class of uninsured people, those who can't get coverage because no insurance company will cover them, or who, despite making 80+K a year, find the coverage to be reprehensibly high. I was one of those and changed jobs to get with a company who offered insurance. I made about $90K a year, but the only insurance company that would cover me and my wife wanted $2200 per month ($26,400 per year) to cover us both because of our age and medical conditions. That's after tax dollars as you don't get the privilege of writing off insurance premiums. So my after tax take home of $63K per year would get reduced to less than $37K per year. Outrageous and unaffordable for someone who made $90K. I changed jobs and, even with my share of the premium and taking a pay cut, I net a little over $50K per year, and my salary is just over $70K. Losing $13K for insurance is fine. That's just over a grand a month for two people. Losing more than twice that amount. Intolerable.
The problem isn't public schools private schools capitalism implementation etc. It's parents, when the fuck did a child's education become less a responsibility from the guardian(s)?

When my daughter was in the womb, I found her a good school by talking to countless teachers and observing teaching style and effectiveness. My daughter is 3 doing 2nd grade curriculum in terms of everything but reading. (People put an insane emphasize on reading but not math logic or vocabulary by kindergarten) Her reading is still above average but not as "high" as it could be, she is going her pace not mine.
@Draugnar - Jesus, I take my good coverage for granted. Maybe I should start having that be a factor in career decisions before it affects me so much.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@Sayjo - the emphasis on reading is well founded. How can you continue to improve yourself if you can't read a history book or an advanced physics text? Reading is fundamental to learning. And don't say "What about the blind?" because they can read too, using braille text books. There is only so much one can learn via pictures (still or moving) and audio.
Draugnar (0 DX)
03 Nov 09 UTC
@Sayjo - the other employer covered my COBRA for it's full term, promising when I came on board they would have insurance by the time my eligibility ran out. They didn't, so they said they'd give me an extra $10K (that was what boosted me to $90K) to cover it. Obviously, that wasn't covering squat. It took me forever just to find an insurance company willing to cover me. I'm not old enough for AARP or any of those who cover older people, but I am over 40 with a Thyroid condition and Diabetes. No one would cover me, it seemed.

I am in a much better position with a company more than 5 times the size (75 people right now) and I enjoy the people I work with, I enjoy what I do, and I have great benefits and a fair salary (plus added perks like they provide a fully funded Blackberry and Verizon Aircard along with a higher-end than normal Dell laptop and bonuses and profit sharing via deposits in a 401K, etc.)

Moving to my former employer who promised tons and delivered little was the worst move I ever made. Moving to my present employer is the best move I ever made.

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283 replies
GoonerChris (100 D)
18 Nov 09 UTC
Internal Server Errors?
I'm getting lots of them at the moment, and tried to email webmaster about it but the email didn't get through. Is this just happening to me or is the server actually down?
19 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
who is up for a live game?
orathiac? Le_Roi? Hibiskiss? Geofram?
14 replies
Open
Arhain (101 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
Strange Italy/Austria
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15568

Check this game for the weirdest Italy ever
10 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
LIVE GAME!!!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15575
5 D 5 minutes
0 replies
Open
kbake (188 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
Two More Players Wanted
Two players wanted for "Honored Opponents" game. Password = diplomat.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15530
0 replies
Open
honkey magoo (162 D)
19 Nov 09 UTC
Live Game!
Live Anonymous 10 Point Game! Come Join!

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=15572
1 reply
Open
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