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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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aneumann (405 D)
16 Sep 09 UTC
Face to Face
I was wondering if many people on here play face to face? either house games or tournaments
8 replies
Open
Tantris (2456 D)
16 Sep 09 UTC
No idea what to do...
So, in this game, I am facing 3 countries that are in a permanent alliance. They don't actually coordinate very well, which allowed me to get into a stalemate line. Their response to this, was just to continue doing what they were doing. I can't seem to get them to talk to me at all. They won't turn on each other. I am not sure what to do.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13040#gamePanel
Any advice?
5 replies
Open
djbent (2572 D(S))
16 Sep 09 UTC
countess tillian
can you please check your private messages. thank you.

if someone is in a game with countess tillian, please ask her to PM me. thanks!
0 replies
Open
rlumley (0 DX)
16 Sep 09 UTC
Pause please
gameID=13085

Everyone has agreed to pause except France, who keeps going NMR. He hasn't gone yet, but probably will, and has gunboated (I think) everyone in the game.
2 replies
Open
rlumley (0 DX)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Microsoft Office 2010
Discuss please. I just learned it was coming out, and I know little to nothing about it. What are your thoughts? Is anyone a beta-tester?
8 replies
Open
trainedkilla (444 D)
16 Sep 09 UTC
Private game needs seventh
Once again I started a private game and need a seventh player. The six of us have played together several times but I can assure there are no pre-determined alliances. The game name is Loki's Labyrith. Password is bladetoback if anyone is interested. Just need one to begin.
1 reply
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
'Angry Lone Nut' Assassins
See below.
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Tolstoy (1962 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
According to the government-approved history textbooks here in the United States, all political assassinations in the history of the country (save Lincoln) have been the work of a 'lone gunman' who is invariably crazy.

I've always wondered if this is also the case in other countries. I know there are a lot of non-Americans here, so this seems like a perfect place to ask: in the last two hundred years, what percentage of political assassinations in your country have been the work of an 'angry lone nut', and how many have been the result of a 'conspiracy' of some kind?
Rommeltastic (1111 D(B))
14 Sep 09 UTC
First post!
Invictus (240 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
Well, Garfield's and McKinley's assassins WERE crazy, and Oswald certainly was a bit off even if he was a Cuban-Soviet-CIA-Mafia patsy.
Tolstoy (1962 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
There are also the attempted assassinations of Jackson, FDR, Ford, and Reagan (and more I'm certainly forgetting). Plus the actual assassinations of Huey Long, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and I think there was also an assassinated cabinet secretary somewhere in time. *ALL* of these were allegedly (if the official explanations are to be believed) the work of "angry lone nuts".

Romans were always assassinated by people with grudges, interests, or big ambitions (or some combination). Medieval kings and princes, the same. I can't think of a single assassination outside of the United States that was the work of an Angry Lone Nut. Can anyone else?
Toby Bartels (361 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
Garfield's and McKinley's assassins may have been crazy (and they were working alone as far as I know), but they also had specific political motivations which made them part of larger movements.

In particular, Garfield, just like Lincoln before him, was assassinated precisely so that his Vice President would become President. In the case of Lincoln, his VP Johnson was a Union Democrat who might have been more sympathetic to the South than Lincoln would have been; in the case of Garfield, his VP Arthur was a member of the Stalwarts, the opposite faction to Garfield's within the Republican Party.

If their assassins weren't crazy, then they were stupid, since both of these reasons proved foolish. Lincoln was much more sympathetic to the South than the Radical Republican Congress, which kept Johnson out of the picture by impeaching (though not quite convicting) him; assassinating Lincoln did more harm than good for the assassins' cause. And Arthur made a point of refusing to implement Stalwart policies (mostly having to do with civil service reform, which is why nobody writes time-travel sci-fi thrillers about it), so assassinating Garfield had basically no effect.

On the other hand, assassinating McKinley was not intended to have any direct effect; the idea there was just to make powerful people afraid of random assassination attempts. You don't need a conspiracy when that's your motivation! That sort of thing ever does any good either, but it was all the rage in Europe at the time. In fact, it was still going on as late as 1914, as any Diplomacy player should know!

In answer to your question, Tolstoy, here is a list of assassinations and assassination attempts in the style of McKinley's assassination:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_of_the_deed#List_of_assassinated_important_figures_and_other_propaganda_by_the_deed_acts
Most of these were, by the official story, done by lone nuts. Nearly all of them took place in Europe.
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
I think the fact that here in the UK we don't really have political assassinations says very good things about us, and our strict gun laws in particular.

Letting people own guns is VERY stupid.
iMurk789 (100 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
where i come from, hunting is too big of a tradition and pastime to take away peoples guns. not saying that i agree with it, but no matter how dangerous it is, people will be allowed to own guns.
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
"Letting people own guns is VERY stupid."

Oh King George, you so CRAZAY.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Sep 09 UTC
Jamiet, that's a bit of a stretch. How many of the assassinations were done with legally owned guns and what percentage of gun owners actually assassinate people?
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
What percentage of gun owners protect themselves from violence with guns?

Don't burst his fascist bubble, guys. Just let it go.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Sep 09 UTC
Well, if you also consider the percentage that use guns for hunting and recreation, I'd say it's pretty high.
trim101 (363 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
@jamie you got it wrong its letting americans own guns is very stupid, everyone else manages ok :p
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Sep 09 UTC
@lol
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Sep 09 UTC
...

@trim lol
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
Fascist? I'm a fascist for thinking it's not sensible for letting ordinary members of the public purchase lethal weapons?

Do you guys think ordinary members of the public should also be allowed to own rocket launchers? Flamethrowers? Tanks? Nuclear weapons?
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
Exactly; besides the fact that a discussion of what good guns are involves a utilitarian presumption, even under those utilitarian terms, guns are a net benefit. Of course, if we were to take seriously the idea that individuals have rights and ought to be respected as free persons, then we'd have ideological support for gun ownership even without the utilitarian presumption.

The opposite view (guns are too dangerous to be tolerated) could be extended to any right, and, say, the right to free speech could be abrogated because, on the whole, more wicked, harmful things are said than socially beneficial things. One sees this manifestation of the fascist impulse all over the world already, where freedom must defer to an overdeveloped sense of decency - the United States lags behind, but it still has its speech-trampling incidents.
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
"Fascist? I'm a fascist for thinking it's not sensible for letting ordinary members of the public purchase lethal weapons?"

Yes.

"Do you guys think ordinary members of the public should also be allowed to own rocket launchers? "

No

"Flamethrowers?"

No

"Tanks?"

No

"Nuclear weapons?"

No

Happy to help!
trim101 (363 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
so acosmist whats the difference between guns and flamethrowers they are both lethal weapons?and dont answer pedanticaly
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Sep 09 UTC
In 2006, 30,896 people died of Firearm related injuries. 45,509 people died of Motor Vehicle related injuries. Should all cars be banned?

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
Don't see much self-defense use for flamethrowers. Nor are you going to hunt with one. Further, it's a legitimate exercise of the states' police power to prevent risk of conflagration. Nice try!
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
How many people did the Crusades kill? Maybe religion should be banned, eh?
trim101 (363 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
the difference is with cars the deaths were pretty much all accidents, and cars are useful to get around in etc, there is no need at all for guns espically not handguns and machine guns
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Sep 09 UTC
they call you a fascist because they feel you are trying to take away their guns. Control their lives, and dictate what they should do in their free time (not shooting) Fascist comes fro mthe latin fasces - a bundle of sticks used symbolically for the power through unity - the bundle of stick you would beat them with if they didn't do exactly what they said.

I would concede that guns for hunting purposes are greatat wiping out wild animals, and reducing our bio-diversity; but what use have most city dwellers in the US of their guns, apart from shooting on the 'range'. I would also admit that it is a cultural thing, some cultures have an aversion to their neighbours being armed, and we by choice do not bring guns into our homes, (where our children might accidentally shoot each other, as happen on occasion in america where some people like to play just like daddy does - and locking your guns away just makes them all the more tempting...)

I am happy to live in Ireland where only farmers, terrorists and drug gangs have guns. (oh and maybe the special police responce teams, like SWAT in america, but i've never seen any of those, actually also the American embassy is aound the corner and your guards have guns...)
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
"there is no need at all for guns espically not handguns and machine guns"

Oh? You can't just state things and think you've made an argument. Try again.
iMurk789 (100 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
@Do you guys think ordinary members of the public should also be allowed to own rocket launchers? Flamethrowers? Tanks? Nuclear weapons?

yeah, thats pretty bad logic...no recreational or self defense use, and if someone does decide to use it with bad intentions, the consequences are much worse...
trim101 (363 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
How many people did the Crusades kill? Maybe religion should be banned,-you did!
Acosmist (0 DX)
14 Sep 09 UTC
"thats pretty bad logic"

Welcome to public discourse in the year 2009. Try not to make baby Frege cry.
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
@ Acosmist: Right. Let's get it on.

"...besides the fact that a discussion of what good guns are involves a utilitarian presumption, even under those utilitarian terms, guns are a net benefit."

On what utilitarian basis do you determine that guns provide a net benefit?

"Of course, if we were to take seriously the idea that individuals have rights and ought to be respected as free persons, then we'd have ideological support for gun ownership even without the utilitarian presumption."

Saying "individuals have rights" is not the same as saying "an individual has the right to own deadly weapons designed for killing other people". Saying "I have rights" does not mean "I can do whatever I want".

"The opposite view (guns are too dangerous to be tolerated) could be extended to any right, and, say, the right to free speech could be abrogated because, on the whole, more wicked, harmful things are said than socially beneficial things. One sees this manifestation of the fascist impulse all over the world already, where freedom must defer to an overdeveloped sense of decency - the United States lags behind, but it still has its speech-trampling incidents."

However, unlike guns, free speech doesn't directly kill people. Guns ARE too dangerous to be tolerated. In any case, you seem to think that flamethrowers are too dangerous to be tolerated, so surely that defeats your own argument.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Sep 09 UTC
The average Garda on the street in ireland does not carry a gun. Thus we are protected by civil servants who are not equiped to kill us, we do not need guns to protect our rights as citizens because the government doesn't use guns to enforce it's rule, unlike in america.

@Acosmist: the view that guns are too dangerous is one that you extend to nuclear weapons or tanks (which obviously are great off-road vechiles, and we love to drive them) and obviously if our neighbours have tanks we may need rocket launchers to defend ourselves...

Free speech is actually tenant of democracy, there is much benifit to be gained in our society from free and open debate. Guns can be used for recreational purposes, or for killing people, from a social good point of view, i see the killing people outweighing the recreational benifits but as i said, In my culture we choose to live in a society where we do not have guns, we agree that it is a good thing; This is not a government taking away our guns, (which would be Fascist) this is a community choosing to protect itself by not being armed.

You also need to look at the ratio of car ownership to gun ownership to actually judge the number of deaths per owner per year, which is a more useful stastic for his conversation.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
14 Sep 09 UTC
@Jamie : "However, unlike guns, free speech doesn't directly kill people."

Free speech to insist on (say) Sharai law can result in people being stoned to death.

proving people can choose to kill each other whether they have guns or not.

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129 replies
Perry6006 (5409 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
New 25D WTA - A Question of Trust
New 24h WTA, 25 D. join the fun!
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13402
2 replies
Open
Dunecat (5899 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
Where are the orders lists for anonymous games?
The "Archive" links are missing from the bottom of the countries box.
7 replies
Open
pootercannon (326 D)
16 Sep 09 UTC
Friendly Sword
I have completed all of FS's games. It was a pleasure playing with all of the top people. If you see Friendly Sword from here on out, it is no longer me.
1 reply
Open
Leon Trotsky (326 D)
16 Sep 09 UTC
Site Error: Game 13309
I am playing game 13309 as Austria. The system apparently held all units and finalized my turn during the second round. I had been waiting for the "!!" signal that I had moves to make and only because I happened to look did I notice that all units were set to hold and finalized, even though I had placed no such order, nor recall having even been given the option of placing orders before they were entered by the system. Fortunately, this error was caught before all players had finalized.
0 replies
Open
iMurk789 (100 D)
13 Sep 09 UTC
xbox/xbox 360 games
favorite xbox/xbox 360 game? just because theyre my favorite systems :P
38 replies
Open
Carpysmind (1423 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Support Attack Question
If two provinces are support\holding one another and one province is attacked w\support while the other province is also\separately attacked w\support and there is no other ‘outside’ influence or effect occurring what happens? Is it a bounce all around (in both cases)?
13 replies
Open
nicktheh (100 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Deleting my account/quitting a game
is there any way i can delete my account??
or to leave a game that i'm currently involved in to get my D's back?
2 replies
Open
Tantris (2456 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Longest Game
So, what is the longest game in years that has ever been played here?
17 replies
Open
Babak (26982 D(B))
15 Sep 09 UTC
New Game (Ancient Med): "Second in the Med (English)"
http://dip.xbsd.kr/games/470/

5 pts - WTA - 24hr deadlines. password: med
this is on the Korean site, so you'll need an account there. talkers only please.
8 replies
Open
djbent (2572 D(S))
09 Sep 09 UTC
a PPSC played the right way
i just wanted to say that my dislike of PPSC is lessened by this fantastic game where i picked up a CD, altho i then regretted it when england went CD. thank goodness he returned.
28 replies
Open
Hundred Variant
Hundred Variant, 5 D WTA, Full Press, 36 Hour Phases.

Anyone up for it? Join http://dip.xbsd.kr/games/474.
(Will need an account on the Korean Site)
0 replies
Open
MercuryEnigma (517 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Supporting Issue
I am confused about a certain support rule.
13 replies
Open
JECE (1248 D)
09 Sep 09 UTC
Civil Disorder vs. Civil Disorder
According to the rules, civil disorder is the state a country enters when it misses any turn. Shouldn't this be noted in the game right away instead of after 2 turns? I am not saying that other people should be able to take up your country after only one missed turn. I am saying that after one missed turn, the civil disorder tag should be applied, and after two missed turns, an ‘open’ or similar tag should be applied.
99 replies
Open
tailboarder (100 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Rule question
12 replies
Open
djbent (2572 D(S))
14 Sep 09 UTC
hundred years variant
Babak and i played the hundred years variant on http://dip.xbsd.kr/index.php but the other person who joined didn't talk at all and then order hold all every turn.
26 replies
Open
vamosrammstein (757 D(B))
15 Sep 09 UTC
US Open
Congrats to Juan Martin Del Potro on his first major championship victory, and congrats to all you Argentinians out there, (especially you Xapi), for winning a major and breaking though into the top level of men's tennis.

Hopefully Juan Martin has many more majors in his future!
5 replies
Open
hellalt (70 D)
15 Sep 09 UTC
Καταλαβαίνει καν&epsilo
Μάλλον όχι...
27 replies
Open
DingleberryJones (4469 D(B))
13 Sep 09 UTC
Applauding a player in a gunboat...
Ever have one of those situations where you want to applaud a brilliant move by an opponent in a gunboat game? I wish there was a 'Tip of the Cap' button, so you could do that without violating gunboat moves. In 2-3 weeks when the game ends, it won't mean as much.
17 replies
Open
Adam Steiner (100 D)
14 Sep 09 UTC
"Forgot password" giving an error message - help!
Hi there,

One of the guys in our game can'rt log on for the past few days. However when he goes through the "forgot password" routine he keeps ending up with an error message. Anyone suggest a solution here? Thanks.
0 replies
Open
djbent (2572 D(S))
14 Sep 09 UTC
seems to be a bug
completely not important, and i think people mentioned it before. see inside.
3 replies
Open
Online indicator gives away anon games
I often play private games against friends, several of whom are in different time zones. We're finding that the online and Last Seen indicators give you a pretty good clue about who's who. Probably applicable only to these situations, but I think for a truly anonymous game, they're undesirable.
17 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
09 Sep 09 UTC
Teens 17- how many of us are there?
So ya just wondering
96 replies
Open
PolishTeaParty (389 D)
13 Sep 09 UTC
Extra Unit Bug
In this game Germany enters the year with 3 supply centers yet somehow he still has 4 units. What's goin on here?

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=13082
16 replies
Open
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