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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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redhouse1938 (429 D)
25 Aug 15 UTC
Trump
Hmm...
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-twitter-tirade-121707.html?hp=rc3_4_b1
My guess is he's actually a very insecure person who's now deliberately turning himself into a caricature so as to be absolutely unelectable.
112 replies
Open
leon1122 (190 D)
26 Aug 15 UTC
(+1)
Suggestion
This website should have statistics for each country of each map (wins, draws, losses, etc.) like vdiplomacy.

I know this is a feature request and I'm supposed to check the todo list, but the forum that the "todo list" link directs to doesn't seem to have been used since last year, and I can't seem to find the actual list anywhere.
10 replies
Open
DeathLlama8 (514 D)
03 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
Let's Make an Openings Compilation/Magazine
As above, below.
7 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
Should Christian Doctors be forced to perform abortions, or face prison time?
It's a perfectly legal medical procedure. If Christian marriage license clerks aren't allowed to refuse to license gay marriages, why not?
70 replies
Open
backscratcher (459 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
Help needed, someone please pick up France in TheModerne
Help needed, someone please pick up France in the game TheModerne.
2 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+3)
Gunboat SOW - Summer 2015
This thread is for the Summer 2015 Gunboat School of War (SOW). Please be courteous to those running the game and respect any reasonable requests they may make. This semester the Gunboat School of War will be overseen by Yaleunc and Valis2501. gameID=164473
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Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
Hello everyone and welcome to the School of War!

Our 2015 Summer Gunboat session will be taught by Professor Yaleunc, assisted by Adjunct Professor Valis2501. The School of War is an excellent, exciting opportunity for everyone to learn from the best and hone their Diplomacy skills. Seven players wishing to enhance their Gunboat Diplomacy game to the next level are chosen as “students” to play a No Press, Anonymous, Classic, Winner-Takes-All, 48 hour/phase game (gameID=164473) starting on July 15th.

Seven experienced individuals are chosen as “TA”s, assigned to a specific student they provide invaluable one-on-one advice and knowledge both on their Great Power in general and the specific game-state. The Professors will provide running commentary and lessons in this thread.

Some ground rules before we go farther:
1. Please be respectful of any reasonable request the Professors make.
2. If you are unsure if you should post something in this thread, send it as a Private Message to either myself or the Professor instead.
3. Students are not to post in this thread until the game’s conclusion.
4. TA’s are not to post in this thread until the game’s conclusion.
5. There is to be no communication about the game outside of the thread, or PMing a professor (or between a TA and their assigned student).
6. End of Game (EOG) statements from the students (and TAs) are highly encouraged.

Many people work very hard to lecture, commentate, and advise students, so if you are worried you will not have time to properly participate, please let me know so I can find a replacement. If you CD, you most likely won't be invited back to future SOW games.

The School of War provides a learning environment for everyone. Anyone who is not a student or TA is encouraged to not only follow along but post questions for the professorial staff as the game is played, counter to normal practice, for the express purpose of teaching/learning for the dozens of others NOT in the game in order to utilize SOW to the fullest. Questions are welcome, but please avoid leading questions that concern coming phases. (eg. "Don't you think it would be best for France to do X next turn..."). Refer to rules 1 and 2.

Professors:
Yaleunc

Assistant Professor:
Valis2501

Visiting Professor On Sabbatical Who Might Show Up Especially If There Is Good Free Food This Seminar:
rdrivera2005

TAs
1. Guak
2. Y2k
3. thorfi
4. Fairfax
5. naked
6. Chaqa
7. Smiley

Students
1. MarquisMark
2. Steingrim
3. Chumbles
4. OB_Gyn_Kenobi
5. Espi
6. cb6000
7. DemonOverlord (pause Aug 3rd-6th)

I have kept both the assignment of Student and Power for each TA secret to maximize anonymity and objective advice.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
FAQ:
What can students do to be effective?
-Students need to let their TA know what their strengths and weaknesses are. (Example: I get stabbed a lot and I don't see it coming.) Read the professor's commentary. Try to talk with your TA as often as possible. You should read the professor's commentary and talk it over with your TA until you understand it.

-As a student, you are the player, and get final say in what orders and press to submit. If you do wish to go against your TA’s recommendation however, make sure you clearly explain why to your TA, and make special note of it in your EOG.

-Students may not post in this thread. If you have any questions, please refer to your TA, since that's kind of the point of having one. Students, I recommend you use your "notes" tab and jot down a few thoughts every turn so that you can write up a comprehensive End of Game writeup at the conclusion of the game. Reflection is one of the best ways to improve.

-Talk to your TA's as much as you can. Hopefully, your TA will also proactively be communicating with you as well, but take it upon yourself to ask them any questions you may have.

-Avoid simply asking your TA "What should I do here?" Your TAs are here to give you advice, provide gunboat strategy, answer your questions, point out things you need to be considering, and tell you what potential options you may have. Naturally, you will talk about orders with your TA, but remember that they aren't here to play the game for you.

-You don't have to stay limited to your own nation when asking your TAs questions. Students are encouraged to ask questions about what is going on on the opposite theater, because you will gain valuable insight into additional options you may have (or risks you may face) now or in the future. At the very least, you'll gain valuable insight that will help you in future games.

What can TA's do to be effective?
-TA's can reach out to their students to establish a good means of communication. Email or Google chat or Skype might be a good way to keep in touch. I prefer forms of communication that are written so I have a record both for myself and for future teaching.

-Try to talk with your as often as possible. Your job is to help the students out with any part of the game they don't understand.

-Figure out what they are good at, look at their previous games and point out areas they need work in.

-Show your student how to interpret the moves from other players, but don't actually play the game for them. Point them in the right direction, but they should still make the choices.

-If a Professor provides commentary you do not understand, clarify it with them via PM.


Where can I read the previous Full Press School of War classes?
threadID=1234169
threadID=1234165
threadID=1193202
threadID=1141098
threadID=1193195
threadID=1091081
threadID=1054331
threadID=1010911
threadID=672851
threadID=738795
threadID=739795
threadID=884531
threadID=940795
threadID=501033
threadID=474841

Where can I read the previous Gunboat School of War classes?
threadID=1167227
threadID=1093281

Please don't hesitate to post or PM questions about the School of War or the process.

Thank you for your time everyone,
Valis2501
SOW Chancellor
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
STUDENTS AND TAs:
Student-TA pairings have been sent.

Please PM me ASAP once there has been Student-TA contact.

I will unpause the game on July 15th to give everyone a slight breathing room to establish contact and initial talks.
OB_Gyn_Kenobi (888 D)
14 Jul 15 UTC
star
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+3)
Best of luck to all the participants and thanks to Valis for organizing this. Students - Stay active even if things don't go your way and ask your TAs lots of questions. Don't focus just on your units, it is important to monitor the entire board in gunboat and also try to anticipate the moves the other players will make. Finally, check the orders log, especially if there are units whose moves are not displaying on the map such as supports cut by attack.
TAs - if your students aren't asking the right questions try to steer them towards what they should be thinking about. Give guidance and recommendations but make sure you aren't just telling your student what to do each turn. Sometimes the best way to learn is by making mistakes.
☺ (1304 D)
14 Jul 15 UTC
something something dont tell me what to do something something star something something
thorfi (1023 D)
14 Jul 15 UTC
I blame society for this star.
Fairfax (1915 D)
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
star
y2kjbk (4846 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
first time using the Spectate Game functionality
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
14 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
Good call y2k
☺ (1304 D)
14 Jul 15 UTC
When will the game start?
☺ (1304 D)
14 Jul 15 UTC
"starting on July 15th."
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
So, are you providing good free food?
I will wait for the oficial professors make the opening lecture and then will try to give some random advices for the students.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jul 15 UTC
I can provide cheese
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
15 Jul 15 UTC
The game has begun.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
15 Jul 15 UTC
So, where´s the opening lecture?
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
15 Jul 15 UTC
Patience. I told everyone it would start on the 15th, not necessarily when on the 15th. I'm sure Yale is writing up one as we speak.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
15 Jul 15 UTC
I wrote something, but will wait for Yale.
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
15 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
I don't really have anything else to say pre-game beyond what I posted Monday night. I'll be sure to post a novella after the Spring moves happen though.
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
15 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
I do have strong thoughts on how to open in gunboat for most of the countries, but I have deliberately refrained from posting in the thread about favorite openings and here because I don't want to influence the opening moves. Once the Spring moves are in I'll post my thoughts on openings.
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
15 Jul 15 UTC
(+3)
On second thought I guess I should post some general comments about the opening. Since there is no press in gunboat your moves do all of the communicating for you. Some openings are neutral and leave lots of options for the autumn. Some make a clear statement about your initial plans or semi-commit you to at least an early course of action. One thing to keep in mind is that you need to stay flexible and be willing to change course if opportunities or necessities dictate such. Some countries work best as early aggressors, others require more patience and positioning before revealing your hand. Try to establish an ally or two early, it is at least as important as it is in press games.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
16 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
I think as a visiting professor I have the right (or obligation) to give some advice for the students at start and maybe some random comment during the game. As Yale will focus more on tactics and about the board I will focus on more general things.

First of all I want to give some points for the students to think about and maybe put in practice on this game. There is not order in the list. Feel free to ask for further explanations on these ideas or to criticize it or tell it´s just bullshit or that my English is terribly poor, lol.

- Gunboat isn´t an easier variant of diplomacy. It´s not harder too. It´s different and you have to think in a different way. There is a proverb that say "Actions speak louder then words". This is the case. So you need to look carefully at other peoples actions to find it´s meaning. Unless you are playing with monkeys there is always some meaning on the moves. So, here is the first advice: always, always look at the orders for the other powers (not just in the small map, but also in order archive, as many orders can´t be seen in the small map). This is the first step to understand what is going on. Try to understand what each power is tryng to do and which actions favours you and which ones could be a threat. Looking carefully the moves will also help a lot with the next point.

- Gunboat is not like playing a FPS in Free for All mode. Novice players tend to think you are supposed to play by yourself, aim for every single center you could reach and not having any commitment with the other players. But mastering how to make (and keep, and break, and remake again) alliances in a gunboat game is even more important that being brilliant at tactics (and tactics on Diplomacy aren´t that hard to understand). So, my second advice is: discover how to comunicate your intentions to an intended ally or how to discover that someone want to work with you. Usually you do that using your orders: supporting someone´s unit or even entering a convoy for someone´s fleet unit to signal where you want to go or who you want to attack). Of course, it´s sometimes frustating as you can´t be sure your message has been understood, but try to be consistent and it will work most of the time.

- Understand at least the basic of the tactics. Read the rulebook, understand convoys rules and convoy paradoxes and beleaguered garrison rules and whatever people sometimes don´t fully understand , learn about the usual openings, the stalemate lines (not only the main ones, but the small ones too are really usefull in gunboat games). There any many sources where to get this kind of information, google it around. The forums sometimes have great topics about tactics too about openings and specific moves (like one about bouncing Russia on Swe), start doing some dig. Download an adjudicator (jDip for example) so you can test some set of moves or an specific position if you have some doubt about the outcome. Like I said, tactics and movements on Diplomacy aren´t that hard to understand, but you can always learn something new and mastering it is a lot more tricky.

- Always look at the big picture. This is one of the most common mistakes new players make both in press games and gunboat. You as England are soo absorbed crushing Germany that you didn´t see a Jugg coming until you are wipped out (ok, this is a bit of exaggeration but I want to make clear this point). So, always look around all the board trying to understand what is happening and discover what is going to happen next. Of course, you can´t plan for some turns ahead like chess, as diplomacy have more variables, but not even considering the future is a direct path to tragedy (I am poetic today). Also, when the game advances to the middle game (after 1904/1905) and if you are still viable on the game you should try to find your path in the end game (ask yourself: I can win? How I will grab my 18 dots? If you can´t win in any way, it´s time to try findind a safe way to be in a draw and to prevent someone else winning). There is some controversy here, as people sometimes tend to jump for a safe draw too early (hence the lusthog concept), but looking the big picture is always a good advice.

- Learn with your mistakes. If you got stabbed try to understand why this happened. Avoid just blaming that idiot, asshole, shithead that stabbed you and try to identify how you could have prevented it, look for the signals that the stab was coming and how you should have prevented it to happen. Write EOGs (Enf of Game statements, this is mandatory for SoW) and ask the other players to write too, so you can understand what they were thinking and learn what you should or should´t have done. Ask the other players after the game about why he did or didn´t do some move. Don´t be shy, most players will give you an honest answer. If you understand why you lose or didn´t win is more likely you won´t make the same mistakes again.

Last advice and most important one: Have fun and remember it´s just a game.

Let the battle begins.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
16 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
A note about etiquette and readying:

You'll often find gunboat games advertised with "readying highly encouraged" or a very similar phrase. Because the only input for one's moves is the board-state, i.e. no press, there is an assumption that once you know what moves you want to make there shouldn't be any reason to change them. There can be no new knowledge gained, therefore you might as well ready up. Especially in live games, especially for trivial retreats/builds, and just in general, it's good Gunboat Etiquette to ready up once you know what your moves are. There's nothing wrong with being a busy person, nothing wrong with thinking about your moves, but we tend to encourage hitting "ready" rather than "save".

However for this School of War I'd ask that we not ready-up across the board unless they are trivial retreat/build steps, as it provides time for the Professors to lecture and TA-Student pairs to conversate. As a learning game there should be more going-back-and-rethinking-one's-moves anyways.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
16 Jul 15 UTC
S01 moves are in!
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
17 Jul 15 UTC
Lecture / Commentary is coming later tonight.

In the meantime we have a very unfortunate and legitimate need for a replacement, I'll be making this as smooth and anonymous and swift as possible. The game is temporarily paused, please don't send any press during the pause (that's a joke!)
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
17 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
[sounding official] Uh, everything's under control. Situation normal. Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
MarquisMark (326 D(G))
17 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Who is this? What's your operating number?
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
17 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Boring conversation anyway
Yaleunc (11052 D(B))
17 Jul 15 UTC
(+2)
Spring 01 Comments - Pretty standard openings across the board, I'll start giving grades at end of year 1, for now just some thoughts on the moves below.

Austria - my favorite gunboat opening for Austria. Puts you in position to take Gre and grab two builds the first year. Also keeps Russia out of Gal for now. Helps that Italy did not move to Tyr, though Russia did move Mos south to Ukr bringing a third unit into play. Biggest decision for the Fall will be whether Vie goes after Gal again or covers Tri.

England - this is the English opening I see (and use) most often in gunboat. Moving the army to Edi means it can be convoyed by either fleet keeping more options in play for the Fall. France opens to English Channel far less often in gunboat vs. press so I think the additional offensive options of army Edi vs the defensive options of army Yor are worthwhile. Russia moved Mos south so Norway can be taken with just one unit, freeing up at least one unit to go after the Lowlands, go after position, or support another power in an attempt to find an early ally.

France - not my favorite French opening as it doesn't guarantee you get into Bur (I like Par-Bur with support from Mar to go with Bre-MAO), but Germany moved Mun to Ruhr rather than Bur so it worked out. Also helps that Italy stayed in Ven rather than moving to Pie and England moved north leaving the Channel empty so you have 2 builds coming and a shot at a third in either Bel or Mun.

Germany - solid opening, I'm a fan of the Kie-Den openings over the Kie-Hol. Mun-Ruhr is fine though it does require guesswork in the Fall as to whether to go for Bel yourself or defend Mun against Bur. You could also try to support England or France into Bel. Be sure to discuss with your TA the pros and cons of allowing Russia into Swe or keeping him out, in particular given the current positioning of units for England and Russia.

Italy - Italy is probably the country with the most distinct "common" openings in gunboat and this is one of those. Less hostile to Austria than Ven-Tyr (which is less hostile than Ven-Tri of course) but not completely ruling out a Fall move to Tri like a Ven-Pie opening does. This opening is normally a precursor to early cooperation between Austria and Italy but I have also seen it used to lull Austria in for a Fall 01 grab of Tri. Be sure to discuss with your TA the pros and cons of working with Austria vs an early attack.

Russia - this is the opening I see and use most often as Russia. I find that splitting the forces by sending Mos north to StP leaves Russia incapable of doing much on either front, whereas having the third unit in the South makes it a lot easier to get things done (unless Turkey decides to attack you rather than go with Juggernaut). With Ukr and Sev you can guarantee Rum and depending on what Germany does with the unit in Den you may or may not get two builds.

Turkey - another common gunboat opening. Not much to say about this one, there aren't as many options for Turkey early on as some of the other powers, but this opening is often effective in the early-to-mid game.
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
17 Jul 15 UTC
(+1)
(Gonna post this without reading Yale's to not bias me, probably plenty of overlap)

I’m going to from least interesting to most interesting, but that doesn’t correlate with strength of opening or position, so keep that in mind.

Turkey:
ANK-BLA
CON-BUL
SMY-CON

CON-BUL is trivial. ANK-BLA maintains power over the Black Sea. You don’t expect to take it, but you need to make sure it’s not taken by someone else. While you can send a Strong Signal of friendship to Russia by the risky/naïve ANK-CON, ANK-BLA isn’t necessarily anti-Russia the same way that SEV-BLA isn’t necessarily anti-Turkey, but more anti-Dying for both sides.

It’s the SMY-CON that always confuses me. Let’s look at the options. SMY-ARM is almost strictly anti-Russian, and if it’s not anti-Russian then it’s hiding behind a façade of anti-Russian. SMY-ANK is almost certainly useless as ANK-BLA is unlikely to succeed, and if ANK-BLA does succeed then it would have been better in CON. SMY H gets you yelled at. SMY-SYR is for either a delayed Armenia stab or playing a hard core waiting game by signaling you don’t plan on growing much and you wanna see who attacks you first. It just makes sense, with all these other options that are either shitty or committed down a path you don’t know you want to go down (although there are those of us who love our SMY-ARM because fuck Russia), that you would move SMY-CON. It’s moving towards those juicy neutral centers, what could be wrong with that?

Well ask yourself, where does it go? There’s only one answer, BUL. But BUL is blocked. You have a unit in BUL. Where’s that unit going? Let’s look at it’s options. BUL-RUM without BLA will fail every time. BUL-SER will fail. BUL-GRE will fail if they move TRI-ALB, which most definitely is in fashion nowadays. And even if they don’t, Greece can be highly contested by SER or even ION(/c via ION) as well. Now every once in a while you’ll get Greece, and maybe it’s worth it. You want something to be around to support hold BUL in S02 as well once it starts to get surrounded. But that means needed something in CON at the end of A01 (assuming you don’t build there), not the beginning of A01. There’s a very good chance you’re gonna have none of your army units move this turn.

For these reasons I find SMY-CON cramped and non-useful. But that doesn’t mean it’s bad. Turkey’s natural advantage as the Eastern Witch is that it can afford to stall out the game, with no backside to cover, and then as soon as the midgame comes, and A/I/R start to have to deal with the West and/or themselves, explode with growth. Of course it rarely hurts to grow earlier either, it’s just that Turkey can afford inefficient or clausterphobic moves because it doesn’t need to get anywhere quickly.

It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path.

Russia:
STP-GOB
WAR-GAL
MOS-UKR
SEV-BLA

STP-GOB is trivial. Sometimes I move to FIN to signal friendship to Germany (can’t go to Baltic as quickly) or if I’m confident I’ll get builds in the south (which, for S01 in gunboat, is a combination of my southern moves and the phase of the moon). But for now and in most cases, STP-GOB is obvious and trivially optimal.

WAR-GAL and SEV-BLA serve similar purposes, which is to bounce contentious areas that would normally be the talk of much press in a FP game. The bounce in WAR hurts AUS and RUS much more than the BLA bounce hurts RUS because SEV is still next to the neutral center RUM after the bounce (although not guaranteed to go there, maybe Russia decides control of BLA is more important than 100% RUM grab). Meanwhile, WAR and VIE are left sitting next to nothing now. MOS-UKR brings down the wild card army into the southern theatre. A solid choice, Russia is sometimes described as “A 3-center southern power that happens to start with F STP(sc)”. While Russia’s strength of being on both sides of the major stalemate line and in both major theatres is powerful and fun, it’s a bit akin to getting your kids off the street in bridge, don’t get ahead of yourself and secure the position in the south.

It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path. I think more than anyone Russia is in control of his destiny of what enemies and what battles he wishes to join, both theoretically and on this board.

Austria:
VIE-GAL
BUD-SER
TRI-ALB

I mentioned earlier that this opening was very much in vogue, and there’s good reason why. An enemy in GAL is devastating for AUS as well as RUS, and it’s obviously impossible to get a good feel for a DMZ offer in gunboat so VIE-GAL, while leaving VIE a bit stranded as mentioned above, protects an essential space.

BUD-SER is, I wouldn’t say trivial, but fairly optimal. If you don’t take SER S01, knowing the other army unit won’t help (neither a bounce to stay in VIE nor a successful move to GAL would be close enough for support) and the fleet can’t reach that far inland, combined with 100% CON-BUL probability means that SER must be taken S01. Finally, there’s the decision of the fleet. Let’s look at the options.

TRI-ADR without backup against Italy just seems incredibly aggressive. It’s either to fuck with Italy or fuck with Turkey, possibly offering a Blue Waters Lepanto (A01 ADR-ION, S02 Hold and dislodgement by F NAP and F TUN to retreat where F SMY did NOT move) but that’s a complicated two-party opening in a game without communication. Not recommended unless you’re looking for some serious lulz. Note that this does not get you a center.

TRI-VEN this might seem aggressive, but I’d consider it less so than TRI-ADR. It’s a defensive move to cover a Bohemean Crusher-like opening and to show that you’re not a push over to Italy. You know you aren’t getting VEN. Heck, if I got VEN with TRI-VEN I’d move right out in A01. Because (A) near impossible to keep it and (B) you will NOT get any farther. Taking VEN with a fleet is the end of the rode, NAP and ROM are on the entire other side of the country. Very rarely is an enemy worth one SC. Now, not every Italy takes this nicely, especially if they were kind enough to DMZ the sister home centers. Use with caution and only if you’re feeling paranoid this game. Note this does not get you a center.

TRI-ALB is what’s left and it seems preeeetty good. You’re letting a VEN-TRI ruin your day in exchange for basically your one legitimate shot at a second center (BUD-SER, VIE-BUD puts pressure on RUM in exchange for leaving GAL open, I’ll bet 5 billion Stanley Nickels it has a much lower average SC gain). While there’s almost certainly F ION and A BUL, in a gunboat the chance that BOTH of them want to screw you over, SPECIFICALLY by working together in A01 on Greece, AND figure out who supports who (although to be fair probably BUL s APU-GRE (which again shows how useless SMY-CON is, what’s CON doing here?!?)) is very low. So you are essentially assured Greece in a basic scenario. Not only do you get Greece, you’re getting your fleet into an important position; sitting in TRI is very inefficient for a fleet.

So you can see why these moves together provide solid defense while also taking a bit of optimized risk for a second center. It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path.

Italy:
VEN H
ROM-APU
NAP-ION

Why do we convoy from APU, rather than NAP? It looks prettier to our human minds as it’s obvious APU is farther away geographically even if it isn’t by Diplomacy Board Convoy. The answer is as a Contingency Fuck I Need To Defend Venice From Assholes move. NAP is unable to defend VEN but able to convoy, ROM is able to defend VEN but unable to convoy, APU can convoy to OR defend VEN. Sorry if this is basic shit but I rather explain something than not explain something.

NAP-ION is mostly trivially optimal. The only other option is NAP-TYS to signal very strong anti-France / pro-Turkey (Since ION is a bottleneck for fleets flowing into AEG/EAS having F NAP (the build) and F TYS (convoy)/TUN (straight move) means that only one fleet can be sent East at a time in a way that is strictly inferior to having a fleet start in ION due to the one-unit-per-territory rules of the game. Even when I do attack France as Italy, which can be fun, I do it by bluffing in 1901, not by moving to TYS and showing all my cards on the first move.

Let’s talk VEN. Not moving PIE, not so much pro-France but not anti-France. Not moving Tyrolia is fairly pro-Austria, based on how tempting and powerful it can be to do so, and it helps that you’re not pissing Germany off who doesn’t need that stress in her/his life. Not moving to TRI is obviously pro-Austria, and like Austria moving TRI-ADR hoping you understand and want a Blue Waters Lepanto, one can imagine moving VEN-TRI in the hopes they’ll understand and want a Key Lepanto but again I’d advise caution here. Not caution against VEN-TRI in the anti-Austrian sense, but caution against VEN-TRI in the “I hope they want to Key” sense.

If you want to be super pro-Austrian, moving VEN-TUS or VEN-ROM as a sign of DMZ’ing VEN/TRI is also a possibility.

Here’s a pop quiz: What was ordered of Venice? The answer isn’t “Hold”. The answer is “support hold Trieste”. While the small map that shows automatically doesn’t portray it, if you click on the enlarged map, or look at the Orders tab at the bottom, you’ll see the support hold ordered. Of course it failed since TRI move to ALB, but it’s important to know that this happened. This signals “I want to be friends, but not so badly I’m willing to blindly leave VEN open”. It’s a nice example of simple communication in a game without press. Now, whether it’s true or not is as simple a question as it is in any Diplomacy game (specifically: who the fuck knows!)

Always check the Big Map. Always be wary of units who look like they just Held.
It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path.

Germany:
BER-KIE
KIE-DEN
MUN-RUH

The only move that’s fairly trivially optimal here is BER-KIE. Unless you’re blitzing Russia for Lulz, or covering Munich because you forgot your paranoia medicine that day, it’s going BER-KIE.

KIE has two legitimate options here, Denmark or Holland. Denmark is the more preferred one nowadays. It give control over Russia’s occupation in Sweden, protects the Baltic, and still pressures North Sea while allowing complete army coordination in the lowlands, and is guaranteed (although HOL is just as guaranteed). What you do with it now consists of two questions: Are you going to bounce Russia in Sweden? Are you going to attack North Sea? The first option has been covered extensively, including a recent thread. Allow me to steal the words of someone much wiser than I:
************************
rokakoma (18688 D)
31 Jan 2014
+1
About bouncing with sweden:

I think there are cases, when Germany MUST bounce russia. One particular case is, when England opens English Channel, strongly anti-French, and Germany bouncing sweden sends the message he will prevent Russia to expand north, hence he is willing to work together with England.

A specific example is: gameID=88274 where I was Germany, DipperDon was England and we literally cleared the board very very fast.

Also, there was a debate already about sweden, threadID=877939, where I've said and I still stick to it:
---------
If England opens anti-french (for eg to EC) then, if germany is willing to cooperate, he bounces russia, to show he will help england against france, and not let russia to bother them.

But there are cases when germany needs a strong russia, for example turkey gets to BS, england opens to Edinborough posing no threat to Germany, it could be a good idea to make them fight.
If Russia opens north (mosc->stp) you might also support him, so he will secure scandinavia resulting a weak england, so germany can fight france.

If Russia opens weak south, you also might want to help him, because he will build south then, to support his units, slowing down turkey/austria.

As Split stated, you have to take all 7 countries' moves into count and make the decision according to that. Basically, if you need a strong russia, oyu let him in, if you have a good alliance by the very first move, you bounce.
---------

Conclusion, there's no rule fitting every game whether to bounce or not, it always depends on 7 players. In this SoW Gunboat it wasn't really a question, as Germany didn't even had the chance. Gemany made a decision, to open a way, sending a strong message who he thinks his enemy is. It's the other players' task from now on to go along with Germany or not.

I have also seen games, where russia got into Sweden, but he did NOT build in StP, and England was clever enough not to take StP. Just like Italy doesn't take Trieste. The result was an extremely successful English-Russian alliance. Yet this alliance didn't really get into the common thinking and until it does not pose any risk. But if England and Russia realize in the coming months' games they could actually work together, than Germany will get used to bouncing sweden again.

This game is contantly evolving, what was working a year ago, 2 years ago, and so on, might not work anymore. Keep that in mind, always.
Moving to North Sea is a rare option I only add for completeness. It’s almost certainly convoying
anyways, it really only says “Hey England fuck you, Hey France let’s attack England”. Which maybe you want, maybe you want the opposite.
**************************

Ruhr is by far the unit which has to make the hardest decision, and it’s intimately connected with an army being In BUR (a common circumstance). I actually want to do a much closer look at this situation, so I’m going to do France’s other units and then I’ll come back to A RUH and A BUR

It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path.

France:
BRE-MAO
PAR-GAS
MAR-BUR

This one I actually find the most interesting, but we’re putting off England because of the interaction with Germany. (And it’s not actually interesting in an absolute sense, just compared to all the other openings, not that there’s anything wrong with that!)

BRE-MAO fairly standard. Goes for juicy neutral centers that, effectively, only France can claim. It gets more interesting with the other moves

PAR-GAS also goes towards Iberia. The important thing is that GAS can move straight to SPA, or actually can be convoyed to POR!

A bit of an aside, never underestimate the connectiveness of MAO. A convoy from BRE to NAF has surprised many a player, from NAF to GAS, etc.

Why would you convoy GAS to POR? Well, it allows MAO to stay in place. When you only have 3-5 units and each unit can only move one space turn, starting S02 in MAO rather than starting S02 in POR is **HUGE**. Imagine this for A01:
GAS-MAO-POR
MAO c GAS-POR
MAR-SPA
You get all your guaranteed neutrals and you start with a fleet in MAO. Wanna go after Italy? BOOM you’re in West Med (and he probably convoyed to TUN so he can’t block it). Wanna go after England? BOOM F BRE and you can either go for IRI or force ENG and it’s just all around much faster. Wanna go after Germany? Well you’re France and overpowered so you probably still could but you gave up a chance at Belgium for this so you probably don’t.

It’s an interesting tempo trick. Now where’s the discrepancy?

France isn’t in MAR. He’s in BUR. I think that’s interesting. There’s two reasons why I think France expected a bounce, and one reason why I think he shouldn’t have (not that he didn’t, that he shouldn’t have). The first reason I think France expected a bounce is that it would allow this nice convoy trick. The second reason I think France expected a bounce is that if he DIDN”T WANT the bounce, he could move a much more standard or popular PAR-BUR, MAR s PAR-BUR. If all you want is F POR and A SPA for the fall this does the trick 100%, AND it wins Burgundy automatically. But France didn’t do that. France didn’t do the move that naively takes Iberia and naively ensures he gets Burgundy. He made the move that may have led to a non-naïve Iberia conquest and may have led to a bounce when he didn’t have to do either. Very curious. I hope I’m not overthinking it, but I wouldn’t dare overestimate the conniving schemers that are Gunboat players.

This is the kind of thought you should be putting into analyzing moves. Asking yourself not only what possible movesets now arise, but ask yourself WHY were he moves made? What were the PROBABLE EXPECTATIONS of the other players? All of this analysis

But, regardless of intentions, France is in Burgundy. Burgundy is a contested area. Now unlike GAL, BLA, and TYR, BUR is the only one to not contain a bounce between Great Powers. Obviously a Germany unit in BUR is contentious because it touches two home centers of France (PAR and MAR) and in addition touches GAS, which itself touches THREE home centers and a neutral. Similarly, a French unit in BUR touches a home center of Germany’s (MUN), and RUH, which like Gascony is a non-center that is just chock full of borders with important neutral and home centers. What should France do? What should Germany do?

I’m going to make a hard claim here:
Unless there’s something fucky like a unit in Silesia (maybe Tyrolia but that’s often just a consequence of an Italian attack on AUS) then France should NOT move BUR-MUN, and Germany should not cover MUN.

Let’s look at this situation and use it as an example of thinking out consequences.

What if France moves to Munich?

Germany can block it with RUH/KIE and uses the other to go for BEL/HOL (and probably gets it unless England is feeling like kicking Germany in the teeth). Now France has pissed off a neighbor for no gain.

Germany can not block it and go for both BEL and HOL (or I suppose guarantee HOL if they’re wary about England AND France deciding to fuck with them). France gets Munich, but Germany still gets a build and an army in KIE, or two builds where he puts an army in KIE anyways, and then look at S02. After A BER France gets kicked out of MUN automatically; he’s provided no back up and Russia nor Italy nor Austria have provided any. Again, making an enemy for no gain.
In both cases, for France it’s not worth it unless you’re confident England will choose your side of the war. And he might. I don’t want to make it seem like I’m saying that France should never attack Germany, or you should never attack a neighbor without already being confident that your neighbor has already done so, but think it through. What are you gaining? Is this better than doing something much more devastating and sneaky? Were my S01 moves set up to fight this war (I’d say France’s moves were not, at least not overtly nor for 1901)?

Could he give up on a build to really fuck with Germany by moving GAS-BUR as back up? Yes, but he’s still depending on England using NTH for a lowland (see below) and/or helping him out in later years. It’s not in line with what the other moves are.

So what DOES France do with Burgundy?

That’s up for him to decide. Going to Belgium is a way of clashing with Germany and asking England for help without totally irreversibly declaring war (as taking someone’s home centers is oft to do). Maybe Germany purposely supports you in to Belgium or supports himself to Holland instead leaving it open. Maybe you go back to MAR as an apology, to PIC to set up an anti-England campaign, or you decide I’m full of bologna as I write about Munich at 2:43 AM and go for it. All reasonable options. And there’s even more to (go to Gascony and sit there like a the scaredy French Cat you are for example).

It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path.

England:
LVP-EDI
EDI-NWG
LON-NTH

England has some of the fewest choices IMO, on par with Turkey, and it mostly revolves around what happened with the English Channel. In this case neither France nor England moved to the channel. Not not-English by France, Not not-French by England. The Channel is a combination of GAL and BLA, like GAL bouncing there means both parties find their respective units unable to occupy neutral centers during the critical first round, and like BLA if one power owns that sea space the other power is in great danger (although a unit on the board is NEVER as dangerous as the attitude, intention, and predilection of the player behind it)

The NTH/NWG opening is quite reasonable, often said to be the only opening that guarantees England a neutral center. This is not exactly true. A dislodgement of NTH by a ENG/(DEN/HOL) attack combined with a MOS-STP, STP-NWY movement by Russia 100% blocks a build from England, but such things are relatively rare, more so in Gunboat where the Sea Lion cannot be coordinated. Anyways, it certainly has the highest chances and is assured assuming no Northern Move by Moscow. Even if there was an army in STP, a convoy by NTH with a support by NWG ensures NWY assuming no dislodgement (make sure to convoy with NTH, not NWG, so a stray single-strength attack doesn’t cut support).

As it stands, England is guaranteed NWY, but there’s a couple different ways of taking it.
1) Convoy via NWG while using NTH to SKA
2) Convoy via NWG while using NTH to HOL/BEL
3) Convoy via NTH while using NWG to BAR
4) NWG while convoying with NTH to HOL/BEL
Each choice makes some combination of friend and foe between France, Germany, and Russia. And I haven’t listed more obtuse options that exist as well, I will try my best not to cover EVERY conceivable move, but these are the main ones.

In a previous GB SOW there were some strong words about NWG-BAR, I believe on quotation is “I've always looked at NWG-BAR in 1901 as a dead end move, since St. Pete will always be there to take, and England can't really afford to commit himself that openly against one country as it leaves him vulnerable to a French attack.”. But personally I’m fine with it, sometimes you want your intentions clear to the other powers (why attack you when you’re helping against a common enemy and/or not attacking them? (the answer of course is that you’re busy not defending your homeland. There’s always a reason to attack someone!)) and your focus laser guided, specifically against the Cold White Northern Power.

Side-note: LVP-YOR vs LVP-EDI
I prefer LVP-EDI with EDI-NWG and LON-NTH. There are two reasons to choose YOR over EDI
1) You’re worried about a French move onto the mainland and YOR can cover both WAL and LON (an unstoppable PIC-WAL convoy A01 is devastating)
2) If for some reason you don’t get the convoy, EDI is blocked from building.
(2) is of course hogwash, I dunno if anyone actually says that but I thought I’d bring it up. EDI being blocked from builds is not a concern and not likely as you’re likely convoying it away. It’s really (1) to worry about. And the thing is that if I at all want to worry about BRE-ENG, I’d move LON-ENG.

In the meantime, EDI has a real advantage in flexibility where it can be convoyed by NTH OR NWG, where YOR can only be convoyed by NTH. This allows NWG to convoy and NTH to be very flexible (NTH connects the most territories with a whopping 11. (I once had to figure out how to dislodge a fleet in NTH such that it would force-disband in a tournament game. I covered all 11 possible spots. I’m very proud of this, it doesn’t have anything to do with this game though).

YOR vs EDI is a matter of whether you want defensive flexibility or offensive flexibility.

It’s a solid opening that doesn’t lock in a specific path.
------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s some basic explanations and strategy for the S01 moves. I straight up copy and pasted twice from the threadID=1093281, I HIGHLY recommend everyone go back and make sure to read those previous GB SOW threads.

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197 replies
Zach0805 (100 D)
05 Sep 15 UTC
Anniversary
Join the 12th game in the Fall of Labor Day series in its 12 month anniversary
(The game number and months are the same)
You only have 3 days because this game is starting on Labor Day
gameID=166982
0 replies
Open
IRidePigs (1386 D)
04 Sep 15 UTC
New Medium Skill Level Game
Hey all, I'm starting a game for players who want a competitive game but aren't at an extremely high skill level. Starting bet is 150 D. WTA, hidden draw votes. Phases last 24 hours.

Game Id: gameID=166928
3 replies
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abgemacht (1076 D(G))
05 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
Fresh off the presses! SoW Winter 2015 Recap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re_oHsbd0QE

A quick recap of the last SoW threadID=1234165
9 replies
Open
D.Trump (40 DX)
01 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
America's Abortion Issue
If you think a fertilized egg is living but not millions of refugees, you've got some rethinking to do.
142 replies
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abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Sep 15 UTC
(+3)
webDip Presents Gunboat Commentary with Valis!
We are currently hard at work on original content. In the meantime, though, check out the first 4 videos of Valis' awesome Gunboat commentary series! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vFFJpr_UqA&index=1&list=PLtzcMVBliKRLu23NLGvc4h87LtDEFC4lR
35 replies
Open
Check_mate (100 D)
27 Aug 15 UTC
(+2)
Another f2f in London?
seems to be a growing appetite for f2f's, and as there are American and Dutch ones currently or recently planned / in the pipeline, I thought I'd see if there was any demand for another one in London (or elsewhere in the UK). Really enjoyed my first f2f experience at that gathering back in March.
16 replies
Open
rojimy1123 (597 D)
01 Sep 15 UTC
Favorite Coloquial Rude Phrase
Personal favorite, currently, is douche canoe. Thoughts? Opinions?
3 replies
Open
__________ (0 DX)
01 Sep 15 UTC
Iran Nuclear Deal
Should America have let Iran build Nuclear Weapons?
57 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
04 Sep 15 UTC
BGG Con / Texas
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1429189/bggcon-diplomacy-play
Anyone know anything or want to help put together something?
11/18-11/22
Hyatt Regency DFW Airport
1 reply
Open
Diploman123 (0 DX)
03 Sep 15 UTC
7 or 5 person game soon
are there people that are willing to start a fast game soon so we can all join at once and have a fast game? I believe we need to organize before so post if you can start a game within the next 10 or so minutes
4 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
03 Sep 15 UTC
Med Game for Rich
Why cant I join?
3 replies
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TheMinisterOfWar (553 D)
24 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
Face To Face in Groningen, Netherlands
Sunday 30 August there, the Netherlands Diplomacy Association (freshly set up) will be organising a game in Groningen. Almost two tables already, so PM me if you're interested! You can also sign up on the official NDA mailing list:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/nederdip
32 replies
Open
Quick Tactical Question
If Russia agrees to be part of a Sea Lion, is it typically expected to move Army Moscow to St Pete's on the opening phase?
18 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
01 Sep 15 UTC
(+1)
CD Takeover Refund
Anyone who takes over an open position can post here (non anon games) or pm me (anon games) for a full refund on the position until September 10th.
9 replies
Open
Caballo Blanco (1005 D)
02 Sep 15 UTC
September Ghost Ratings!
Oh where are you...
82 replies
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Chaqa (3971 D(B))
31 Aug 15 UTC
Lusthog?
It's been awhile, is anyone up for a new round? Maybe like 3 or 4 games?
17 replies
Open
thdfrance (162 D)
31 Aug 15 UTC
Back To School Game
Well mates, I've finished two long weeks of RA training, and classes start tomorrow. In honor of my sophomore I'd like to put together a back to school game. Classic, 24-48 hour phase, WTA. Bet size and anon I'm willing to discuss. SO anyone looking for a game?
7 replies
Open
kasimax (243 D)
25 Feb 15 UTC
modern gunboat tournament
i'm planning on starting a modern gunboat tournament with each participant playing every country exactly once. wta, 11-point buy-in (so you'll need 110 to participate), 36-hour phases, staggered start (i was thinking about five games at the beginning at the next five after 4-5 years).

who's in?
185 replies
Open
Dharmaton (2398 D)
30 Aug 15 UTC
I'm tired
On a lising streak... was hoping to win just one so as to leave with a better pointage to stay on the top 100 for a while, f' it. NMRing last games and saying thx so long for all the stinky fish. bye!!! :)
10 replies
Open
seth24c (5659 D)
01 Sep 15 UTC
Spartan races.
See below!
9 replies
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ssorenn (0 DX)
01 Sep 15 UTC
need an Italy
only the brave mat apply

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=165756
4 replies
Open
rmf (100 D)
28 Aug 15 UTC
(+3)
F2F Berlin
I stopped playing games here in webdip a few months ago, but I still got the Diplomacy bug, and I see F2Fs are growing in popularity here in the forum. So... Anyone in the neighbourhood of Berlin willing to join for an F2F in the German capital?
9 replies
Open
backscratcher (459 D)
30 Aug 15 UTC
What is this Mafia?
What is this Mafia?
24 replies
Open
basvanopheusden (2176 D)
29 Aug 15 UTC
Objective diplomacy
A game where you can win by getting 18 centers, or achieving your "secret objective", determined before the start of the game.
34 replies
Open
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