Good job she never mentioned this when 'don't ask, don't tell' was the still the policy. that said not sure if she has ever followed the 'don't tell' bit.

sorry red. sometimes i post before reading. adhd i guess.

but, i like my title better anyway.

You should put that in the daily quotes thread. ;-)

Maybe the name should be Chelsea Womanning

Draug, i understand from the other thread that you're not being transphobic, you just hate her. But it's still not nice to pick on people's illnesses!

Also you never bothered addressing maniac's rather good question.

I think Chelsea should get a pardon if you can't be bothered thinking.

It's called humor, orathaic. It is commonly done at someone else's expense. But for what it's worth, I haven't gotten more than 4 hours sleep any night of the last 4 and last night I worked until 4 AM, then fell asleep in my clothes on the couch when I closed my eyes for a moment, ended up waking up about 7:30 and got back to work. So I'm a bit sleep deprived which means I am finding humor in stupid shit that others don't see.

And, as far as the crimes go, Manning should get *no* pardon and I seriously doubt Obama will give her one or whoever the incoming new president is at the end of Obama's second term. Maning should rot for at least a decade in jail. But that i my opinion of what irresponsible Army Pvts who commit treason warrant at a minimum.

I agree with Draugnar. Although I have a huge bias in this case.

Not about transexuals, I've actually engaged in four separate protests in Lansing seeking transexual rights (because the Michigan legislature had a huge hard on for a while in trying to legislate against transexuals). About people who commit treason.

Free manning

Treason is an opinion. Thoreau was a patriot who never paid taxes. If you love your country, you need to stand up to her masters

"Draug, i understand from the other thread that you're not being transphobic, you just hate her. But it's still not nice to pick on people's illnesses! "

>Concern about Transphobia
>Transgendered is an illness

pick one.

Treason's not an opinion when it comes to a court of law. When he was given access to those documents, he was informed that releasing them was punishable by that offense.

But the court is automatically subservient to whoevers in power. That doesn't make it just or even legitimate

Example look at the Egyptian courts right now

She was made aware of what the penalty for sharing the documents would be before she shared them. That was a conscious choice on her part. It was not at all arbitrary.

"But the court is automatically subservient to whoevers in power. That doesn't make it just or even legitimate "

Bzzzzzzt!!!!! Wrong! The court is subservient to the constitution. If it weren't, there would never be a bill passed by congress and signed by the PResident that wasn't overturned. No, the court is not subservient to whoever is in power. You are absolutely worng with that assertion.

I also enjoy the comparison of US courts to courts in a country going through various messy rebellions over the course of the last year or two. They're obviously equivalent.

+1 SD - This is all about American courts and american law and they are *not* under TPTB's thumb. Hell, in many cases they *are* TPTB. They are the only ones can tell Congress and a President to get bent and throw out a law without a veto or override capabilitiy short of a Constitutional amendment and we all know those just don't happen anymore.

orath: "Draug, i understand from the other thread that you're not being transphobic, you just hate her. But it's still not nice to pick on people's illnesses! "

So Orath, you admit being trans is sick? Is that what you're saying?

I am so fed up with the liberals who want their cake and they want to eat it too. Is transgenderism a sickness or not? Is it normal or is it sick?

Good question dirge and it would be better if a Transexual gave their opinion. I look at it this way, we have people over 7 feet tall. That isn't in the normal range, but it isn't an illness / sickness either. It may be that being can result in some mental health problems for some people, others would embrace it and not suffer any mental health issues. Whilst being Transexual probably isn't an illness in itself it can cause problems, how do I tell me parents? Will I get fired? Will people think I'm a pervert? Will I get abuse? Transsexuals who are separated from family, and/or sacked or abused can suffer mental health problems related to their transexuality but their transexuality in itself, IMHO isn't an illness.

I will of course defer to any Transexual who wants to put an alternate view point.

I wonder if there are any trannys on webdip...

Being trans is an illness insofar as that there is something wrong with your natural state (you are physically the wrong gender) and that that can cause mental health problems. The illness is treated by fixing the person's body, whether it be by hormone therapy and/or sex change surgery, thus correcting the problem. I don't see where the contradiction in ora's statements lies.

So, ghug, you believe we are all responsible for paying for everyone's surgery who believes they were born the wrong gender?

I think it is absolutely disgusting, but on the other hand Manchester United would be a lovely name for a woman, the name Chelsea strikes me as somebody desperate to have a Cli*ton.

Nice strawman there, dirge. But I think that if you had ever actually met a trans person, you wouldn't treat it so lightly. It's a very big deal, it can lead to mental health issues, and when someone is in prison and having other healthcare provided by the prison, yes, the surgery should be provided as well.

Yes, as a socialist, i think free health care should be provided to citizens by the state (in ireland we have the terrible discrimination that free health care is only available to the poor! , whereas in england the NHS is there for all!)

It is not my fault if the US chooses to treat it's prisoners better than it's 'free' citizens.

@Ora - as a Socialist who do you think should be leading the Labour Party now?

@Nbaby, I've no idea, i'm not a party member.

@Nigee - Ed will be fine as the Labour Party's leader and will do as well as any other Labour leader in 2015. Probably too late for Alan Johnson and too soon for Chuka Umunna. Labour's problems aren't one of leadership but of policy. Whilst I'm still an old radical on some issues, now is not the time for radical policies. We (Labour) have to be allow Govt to lose the next election as much as we try to win it. Now is not the time for cancelling trident's replacement or U-turning on HS2 for example (even though I'd agree with both policies), we will need to focus solely on the economy.