I agree with redhouse. The religious institution with 1.2 billion members could not be more inconsequential.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/world/americas/francis-begins-reign-as-pope-amid-echoes-of-argentinas-dirty-war.html?pagewanted=all

Worse than Benedict, who only collaborated with the Nazis in his youth.

Well India is hardly relevant and has as many members. What's more, a catholic can be a catholic 10 minutes per day. An Indian is an Indian 24/7. I agree that the catholic church is huge, but it's not the church of John Paul II anymore who took Reagan out for a garden chat to whisper some pacifist/anti-communist poetry in his ear. It all happened very fast.

The pedo scandal sure didn't help anything either. Around where I live, people left the church in droves

@gavrilop. Really? Are you that incredibly stupid?


Now the OP here is even more ridiculous. The largest institution in the world is still leaving its mark everywhere, whether it be combating sodomy in France, aiding the sick in Africa, etc etc. You people are idiots.

You accidentally said 'combating' where you meant to say 'committing'.

Sbyvl36, you think Benedict was worse? I suppose you can make a case for it, but I think Francis's evil acts are worse since they happened later in his life.

Yeah Sybvyl, and while they're at it I'm sure that they're spreading their Marxist influence everywhere they go.

I wondered if "combating sodomy" was an ESL speaker's way of saying the church is finally trying to stop priests from raping children.

But Sbyvl meant the church is trying to stop French citizens from showing lifelong commitment in consensual adult relationships. That's sad.

I agree with Redhouse about India. A nation with 1.2 billion people and a *nuclear arsenal* could not be more inconsequential. Especially not give its irrelevant geopolitical position as a secular democracy sandwiched between communist China and the Islamic/theocratic/monarchist bloc.

I agree the Catholic church has been involved in aid(s) in Africa.

Wait....do people really think Benedict was better than Francis?

Not many, except for the really conservative catholics

^at least from what I've gathered

As a Pope? That remains to be seen. But the Catholic hierarchy including Francis worked with the military dictatorship in Argentina. Benedict was a Nazi when he was a young man. They're both craven, cowardly, evil men, but I think Benedict is a more sympathetic figure.

woah woah woah... Benedict was a part of the Hitler Youth, its not as though he was out in the camps killing people. during the time is was custom for the children to join the Hitler Youth.

I feel that Francis is the greater politician of the two. Benedict made multiple statements that inflamed much of the world and gave the Catholic Church a bad image. As soon as Francis stepped in, he offered an olive branch to atheists, and continues to reach out to them now. Don't forget his foot washing either; he washed the feet of women and black skinned people at a detention center. Either way, though, I don't like either Benedict or Francis.

and also gavrilop,
there is no definite answer as to whither Francis had any part in the Argentine dictatorship, and if anything he would be guilty for not speaking out against it. please explain how either of them was craven, cowardly or evil.

Benedict served in the anti-aircraft corps and later the infantry. He was a Nazi soldier up until 1945, when he was 18. Other people his age became resistance fighters. He did not. Therefore he is a Nazi coward.

Francis is an evil coward for handing over left-leaning priests to the dictatorship to be tortured. That's no surprise, he has always been an opponent of liberation theology. But it's still cowardly to not act to protect those priests. He could have hidden them, he could have told the regime not to take them. He looked the other way because he didn't care.

The world is going through a very tough time at the moment. Looking merely from an economic point of view, the engine of growth that we have been reliant in the past seem to be outdated. The "developed" world is not growing. The "emerging" world is also facing challenges with growth virtually at a standstill in Brazil, Russia, not strong enough in India. China is also at a crossroad.

Inequality is every where on the rise and the middle classes are questioning the future.

Even, in that simplified context, of economics, the message of the pope Francis of simplicity, self denial and altruism, like St Francis, is particularly relevant.

Actually no gavrilop,
Benedict's family resented he Nazi party, he was forced by law to join the Hitler Youth in 1941 when he turned 14. He was a resentful member, he often refused to go to meetings, he then was forced to the anti-air core and then was trained as an infantry. but when his basic training was complete he fled the army and returned home. and what evidence do you have against Francis?

"Actually no" what? You're not disagreeing with any facts. He served in the anti-air corps and the infantry, and he never joined the resistance. I don't dispute that he deserted in 1945 when it was clear Germany would lose. Other people his age joined the resistance. He did not, because he was a coward.

The two priests who Francis sent to be tortured, Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics, themselves said that Francis did it!

So gavrilop, you think it's the church's place to interfere in the politics of the countries it operates in?

If a country is torturing people, certainly it is any and every citizen's responsibility to not hand people over to be tortured.

you were saying that he served, he only trained, so i was disagreeing with you

He served. He was trained *and he was stationed.* That's military service. Try clicking on the footnote.

his family helped the Americans, they had an American outpost inside their home

His family, not him, may or may not have willingly helped. American troops were occupiers, they set up outposts wherever was convenient for them. Let's assume his family were sympathetic to the Americans. So what? He did not join the resistance. Other people his age did. He was a coward.

put yourself in a 14 year olds shoes and just think, would you really decide to stand up against an entire country, where if you spoke out you would be shot? I don't think so, not standing up does not make him a coward, i'm sure you haven't stood up to many things that you though were wrong. just like every human being on this planet