when some of us, me, thucydides, sean, wonderllama etc, were disscussing making a game together, someone mentioned that they "would love to see the press that comes out of that game"
heres one moves worth
Spring 1901: ugh, nevermind. oh and america's defense spending has nothing to do with anarchists in the states. all of the spending is on the military not the police force
09:22 PM Spring 1901: well it used to have to do with anarchists in the states - back in the day they were known as "confederates"
09:24 PM Spring 1901: I would hardly call them anarchists. secessionists yes, but not anarchists. besides I dont think any of the states are planning on seceding anytime soon
09:25 PM Spring 1901: well sure now the confederates are iraqi or iranian or god forbid, taliban.
09:28 PM Spring 1901: ok, you need to define what you think is a confederate
09:43 PM anyone who opposes the united states federal government, essentially :)
09:44 PM well you are incorrect.
09:53 PM metaphorically? i'd say on that level i'm right on.
10:06 PM if you are using it as a metaphor than that is different. metaphors are like opinions, they can be bad, but not really "wrong"
10:08 PM sure but all meaning is structured as a metaphor. and if something that claims to have meaning is wrong, that it is a metaphor does not rescue it.
10:12 PM I really dont feel like getting into the symbolism and objectivism of language, that could take hours. besides we're veering off into a tangent
10:32 PM we have weeks to play this game. all i'm saying, is that if you are not on the side of the united states army, you are against it. call it what you like, confederate, indian, nazi, communist, anarchist, iraqi, terrorist, whatever, there is only one question that matters in this life and you better answer "i'm with the USA" :)
10:43 PM indian?
ok you know what fuck america. I love the place that I live but I hate the people in charge. America isnt that great. yes there are places I would like to live a lot less, but why is america always judged, not by how good it is, but by how bad it isn't?
and all those things are very different, confederates, nazi's, communists, anarchists, all the things you listed are very distibct and different from each other. being for or against the U.S. is NOT the only question that matters, and that kind of shortsighted and ignorant arrogance are exactly the reason why americans are so intensly disliked abroad
11:02 PM america is great. it is a triumph not only of an idea that stands the test of time, but of all the temporary intervening ideas that adjust to changing circumstances. america is always judged by how bad it is, which is why things like anarchism are so appealing - the truly heroic goals that america has always stood for are, broadly speaking, and have been, under attack for many years. basically the equation boils down to order. anarchists essentially reject hierarchical order. while hierarchical order is not something that should crush all freedom or egalitarianism, hierarchical order is an equal partner with chaotic and free egalitarianism. unfortunately, america, rather than seen as a balance of order and freedom, does not get the respect it deserves from its critics who tend to view america only as hierarchical and fascistic, and don't fully consider its liberty and freedom. and i bring this up because right now, america is the only force for that component of order in the world today. much of the world faces stupid fanatical conflict, or perhaps water wars or famine or disease, much of the world faces relentless poverty. the only way for human beings to improve our lot on these issues is to recognize that with power and authority comes judicious administration of resources that ultimately can be accessible to all, especially when there are democratic ideals behind the thing. but instead many of our too-comfortable allies deride the essential role that america plays, a role they themselves are unwilling and ill-equipped to take on, and they limit the ability of the united states to do what humanity needs it to do. ultimately america is THE question - can human beings solve their own problems using the best models and approaches that human beings have developed over the millenia? or will human beings be overwhelmed by the inertia of civilization and collapse under the weight of the social obligations we have defined for ourselves.
yes, you view the answer that the collapse is inevitable. but i view that as incorrect, and that the finest days for humanity are not only in the future, they may be in our lifetimes. and america is the only nation that can make this happen. we may not be the best, but we are uniquely suited for a global role in a way no other country has ever been, and that if it succeeds will do more for humanity in one generation than in any other generation up to this point.
11:11 PM by the way, indians tend to prefer the term indian to native american or first person or indigenous.
11:19 PM such hubris. all empires fall.
would i rather the USA
is the worlds only superpower than iran, china,
russia?...of course, its
the lesser of a lot of evils.
you said turkey that you are with the USA or against.
what happens if im with their ideals( democracy,liberty)
but against their methods -(Abraham tanks and b52 bombers )?
what also if i think that their stated "ideals" are just pure
spin and PR bullshit and in fact their actions encourage and foster
the opposite in the world?
11:28 PM yes, but the trick is that it is both. our bombers and tanks will defeat nazism, they will contain and ultimately destroy the soviet union, and they will enforce a just governance of the balkans. but because we are a free nation, we do not have total clarity. we will make choices we think are correct, even moral, and will commit violence, whether in this stupid war in iraq, or the war in vietnam, or elsewhere. our freedom is directly related to this sometimes blind stupidity. but it is also the reason that, even with the blind stupidity, we can often salvage that which we have made wreckage. where the soviet union does not today have influence in afghanistan or even most of its former satellites, you cannot say the same of the american failures. as one example, see the philippines. bloody, stupid and costly as that war was, today the philippines is a solid part of the global economy, and there is a standard of living that is achievable and improving that would not have been possible without the united states. objectively, there is a very powerful idea that americans, with their understanding of the world, with their principles and ethics, have apparently approximated. while all empires of the past has fallen, human beings may be entering a new period - one in which anarchy, poverty, famine and other such forces which are destructive to human communities, may be broadly containable, even conquerable. i am not saying we can do this assuredly. but given that we have a shot, it would not be prudent to take the risk and go for it.
12:27 AM "with power and authority comes judicious administration of resources" you cannot begin to portray amerca as the worlds humantarian. first of all, we are the most wasteful and indulgent country in the world, and that is indisputable fact. America isnt spreading its seeds of democracy and peace throughout the world, it's sowing hatred and death, and feeding hatred. you cannot say we went into iraq to help the people, we've killed 90,000 civilians since we've been there (proof available on request) we didnt go to stop terrorists, hussein hated terrorists, bin laden in particular, and iraq had no terrorist ties (proof in last weeks CIA statement about their mistake) and we dioidnt do iy because we suspected they had missles, (we knew, cuz we gave them to him) and we sure as fuck did not go to help the people, our occupation has only hurt them. not to mention all the human rights violations and genocides we ignore (china, darfur, nicaragua, most african nations)
and dont even try to justify the purchansing of weapons to promote peace "our bombers and tanks will defeat nazism" bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity, it just doesnt work.
and no, they dont prefer indian. dont make cultural assumptions based on nothing. being called indian is like an insult, columbus being so stupid he didnt even know where he was...
As I recall...
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