Two points:

1) Builds and retreats are not normal phases. Unless you know you will be away or have trouble logging on then these should be finalized ASAP.

2) Greivous is not complaining about lack of finalizing in general, but for someone who has intentionally decided to slow the game down because they aren't doing well. Now it's one thing if they are using that extra time to drum up support in an attempt to change the course of the game. But somehow I expect that usually is not why it happens.

It's mostly habit. That's true. But I find that often that the players being accused of holding out on purpose really have no malicious intent...

I don't finalize retreats or builds ASAP unless I'm due to be eliminated. The reason being is that finalizing ASAP would mean I finalize as soon as I can get on the computer which is typically around the same time every day (when I wake up). That means that if I'm playing a 24 hour game the phase now processes right as I'm getting on and I might miss it or any important press that may have come in while I was sleeping.

Not like you could do much to make the holder move other than attacking the holder on global or private which has a good chance of backfiring. So just live with it, talk some more, check your orders again, and wait.

Thanks Dangermouse -

That's exactly what I'm talking about. We can see when people are on and not on. When someone checks in multiple times in a turn and doesn't finalize, it's pretty annoying - especially during the retreat, unit placing/build rounds.

The points about timing in general are completely valid (Chrispminis). But I've been in enough games now when people not doing well either drag it out or CD (not sure which is more reprehensible) that I can say it's an intentional (and lousy) move.

These folks might be engaging in diplomacy. It can sometimes take a while for a meaningful communication to conclude.

I'm not really sure as to why they would do it maliciously though... it's a pretty senseless act of defiance. If they're under 100 points, which I suppose most malicious phase laggers are, they're only delaying the speed at which they get their points refunded... otherwise they gain nothing other than giving everyone else more time to go outside, hang out with friends, or daydream about Diplomacy.

Players are entitled to take the maximum amount of time in any turn, regardless of any variable (season, year, position, power, units, SC's).

That is all I have to say.

In one game, I wasn't watching it too closely and one of my longtime enemies yelled at me for not finalizing.

I decided that, due to his lack of etiquette, I'm going to be a bastard to him and drag it out for being impolite. Why? Simple. I'm spiteful. I thought we had the sort of mutual respect of worthy enemies. He instead is being a prick about his imminent draw with his ally and I am going to delay that victory as long as I can, because he is a jackass.

lol same with our global game xD

Uniting against you isn't RUDE, just unkind.

The player who pissed me off was rude. We're being evil, but we're not being impolite. :<

Also, NOBODY has finalized for the current turn. At all.

:P

I mean for my finalize and destroy phases

*retreat


lol a 4 day wait

Nah Panda, I'd say you're being impolite. Though I'm an active defender of the right to not finalize!

Chrispminis: Not in my delaying of the game, in the Global-only game. xcurlyxfries is displeased that Italy, Russia, and Turkey have decided to dismantle him (he's Austria).

I'm reciprocating impoliteness in the one where I'm delaying. :D

Haha, well such is the eternal fate of the Austrian...

"We can see when people are on and not on. When someone checks in multiple times in a turn and doesn't finalize, it's pretty annoying - especially during the retreat, unit placing/build rounds."

I was playing three games recently. At times I was just on to check whether I had to make any moves within the next few hours. Sometimes deciding on a retreat, build or discard can involve planning moves for the next phase. Although I don't do this habitually, I think it is acceptable not to finalise a retreat or unit placement in order to manage time. If someone hasn't replied to my press then they have no cause to complain.

Agreed. I'm often accused of dragging things out in games because I ALWAYS have the hope that I can wriggle out of things.

If someone doesn't reply to me at all, and if I'm getting screwed by two players who have not sent me ONE message the whole game...

Also, I have a wonky schedule sometimes, and taking full use of retreat times can mean I won't NMR later. I know 'some' people would accuse me starting games I can't handle timewise, but I hope most people would agree that it is legitimate.

I see no problem in using the entire time alloted by the game mechanics, even for builds and retreats.

A breach of ettiquette? Maybe sometimes, even often. But I would say there are times it is legitimate. If a bit bastardly :P.

How about logging in not entering moves and not finalizing because you are losing! If you don't want to play just go civil and let someone else play out the game for you.

Why would you do that though... what do you gain by not finalizing when you're losing? I just don't understand the motivation!

Nevermind not finalizing, it's the logging on and not entering moves that gets me. Play the game out and lose with some dignity.

Well, I'm never convinced that there is no hope for me. And if people don't respond to me, or ask me to please finalize, or anything at all...
Well... I feel like I owe them very little.


It's not that I don't want to play, it's that I want to play to my dying breath, and as a result drag my feet until I've exhausted every possibility.

Essentially I'm just spiteful to those who ignore me. :P

Perhaps its juvenile, but I'm not going to stop doing it.

Also, it IS allowed by the mechanics of this form of the game, and I see no social contract anywhere saying that one needs to finalize as early as possible whenever they can to provide for others convenience.

I regard a deliberate NMR, and deliberate CDs as far, far, far worse transgressions of the spirit of the game.

Yeah, I'm similar. When I'm going down I tend to send press like wildfire in a desperate attempt to get back up on my feet. Besides, it's epic when you can take one SC and make a comeback.

I often check the results of moves on my phone, but I don't like finalizing anything on my phone, because I want to see a big map in front of me before I do.

At least a diliberate civil lets someone take over and play. A diliberate NMR is bad. And saying in global that you intend to play out the game (as is happening in one of mine) with NMR's is just being a poor loser.

I finalize usually right away, unless I'm talking with someone about an important move, or I have so many moves to make I need to organize my thoughts. When I'm losing I don't wait. I try to get people to help me but whether or not they answer rarely affects my moves when I'm losing. If I'm losing I'm usually taking some risk and praying for that player to help me.

I don't mind too much, but sometimes it can get annoying.

Personally, I never finalize in the early stages. Once it reaches mid-game (c.1905) alliances are generally set and so I worry less and finalize more. However, if I start to fall back I'll stop finalizing again to give time for the added press needed to kick-start a nation. When this doesn't work, finalizing straight away is the only honourable outcome.