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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Farcus189 (505 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
bobby wobby
the unit placing phase was skipped pleas check thanks
5 replies
Open
ryanwsmith (108 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Bug Report
In game Go Chargers (http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=2973) I (Germany) was unable to place units last fall, even though I've got 14 supply depots and only 13 units... anyone know why this might be?
0 replies
Open
abab (1312 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Bug in support move orders?
I cannot upload the third field of any support move orders in http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=2879.
I submit the filled fields, they stay pink and never turn white, while my browser hangs on. Has anybody else experienced such a problem?
Thanks for your attention.
0 replies
Open
thewonderllama (100 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Tournament Update
It's been a while since anything's been said about the Grand Festive Diplomacy Tournament in the forum, so I thought I'd give an update.

We're in the midst of round 2. We seem to have lost two players to CD and one player only joined one of his games, but otherwise things have been going smoothly. A few of the games seem to be nearing completion, but there are still a few very interesting games going on. If you're interested in checking them out, visit the official tournament page at: http://www.llamanation.org/grandfestivediplomacytournament2007. That will have as up-to-date information on the tournament as I've written anywhere.

If the links tell you you're not a member of the game and don't show you the map, remove the www. from the game url's and they should work, thanks to an interesting quirk of phpdip.

I'll post updates in this thread as games complete and once the players moving on to the finals have been decided.
2 replies
Open
tangchinkit1900 (100 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
I lost the army in the game omgwtfbbqhax
My newly set up army disappears in Munich of game omgwtfbbqhax

Please settle as soon as possible.

My ID is tangchinkit1900

Regards,
Frankie
0 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
09 Mar 08 UTC
How do you know if its a winner-take all game?
Is there a way to tell by looking?
0 replies
Open
el_maestro (14722 D(B))
09 Mar 08 UTC
Builds' mouvement Arrows have gone away since upgrading
When replaying game steps (Spring01-Autumn01, Spring02-Autumn02 etc) Builds' mouvement Arrows are missing. Very difficult to figure out what happened during rouns.
0 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
09 Mar 08 UTC
New Turn Length
Are the 48-hour turn lengths intentional? I can get used to it I'm just wondering.

In my games everything is running smoothly and I am very appreciative of supporting convoys and no self-displacement. However I am curious as to how the map will replace Game Master tab. Anyway I'm sure that will resolve itself, my main question is about the new turn lengths. I hadn't heard Kestas mention that so I'm curious.
3 replies
Open
amathur2k (100 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Issues with the global tab
+1 on the spain thing.
I cant see anything on the global (earlier gamemaster) tab. data for the latest moves is missing. and oh i just noticed posting has become much nicer with text neatly fitting inside the box and moving to the next line automatically. Thanks !!
1 reply
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
09 Mar 08 UTC
Spain
Can I just say, Kestas, THANK YOU for fixing the Spain coast thing. You have no idea how much this is appreciated.
0 replies
Open
el_maestro (14722 D(B))
09 Mar 08 UTC
Why "End of phase" delay got so long ?
Why "End of phase" delay got so long ?
When creating a game, the creator should set the "End of phase" frequency.
0 replies
Open
Sparky McGee (353 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Bug Glitch in Abgemacht
Abgemacht
Autumn 1904, Unit-placing
By my count I should be placing two units, but "The game" is informing me that I have nothing to do this round. We are also in a 40 hour turn, which seems a bit long to me.
4 replies
Open
ryanwsmith (108 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Bug report
In the game go Chargers (http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=2973) Germany has 14 supply centers, and 13 units, but during unit placing it says "You have no orders to enter this turn".... Also, it shows 34 hours left for this phase... anyone know why this might be?
2 replies
Open
el_maestro (14722 D(B))
09 Mar 08 UTC
Following Upgrade of phpdiplomacy all have been Fuck up.
Following Upgrade of phpdiplomacy all have been Fuck up.
All my games i am in are upside down
2 replies
Open
Pandora (100 D)
06 Mar 08 UTC
Religion
sean posted asking about everyones political leanings, I was wondering about peoples religion
208 replies
Open
nelsnelson (100 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Suggestion to Help
hello,
1st time phpDiplomacy player, taking advantage of the great service, provided, thanks.
I am sure things will become clear once we begin, but at the moment I am curious about the time length of the Periods and cannot find that info in the Rules area. May I suggest that it be added?

Sincerely,
Nels
2 replies
Open
Mussolini (125 D)
08 Mar 08 UTC
Public Apology to all players affected by my meta gaming before.
Dear Kestas and all phpDiplomacy players,

I am here to apologise and say sorry to all players affected by my meta gamings before. Sorry for all inconveniences and unpleasure caused.

In order to show my sincere repentance, I will stop playing all the acounts.

I will start a new account, try to avoid playing with my classmates, or play with them in password games,
to enjoy the pleasure brought by this wonderful game with all phpDiplomacy players.

I hope that everyone will forgive me and let me repent, change and start over in this game again.

Hope that you will accept my public apology.

Thank you for all your attentions.

(Forgive me that my English sucks too:))

Jason
13 replies
Open
Troutface (100 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Its the Trouut
Join plz! 75 buy in and lets get the dip goin!
0 replies
Open
happyklim (154 D)
05 Mar 08 UTC
Soothing Ocean Sounds...and silent_hunter...Multi-accounts?
Boludo!!!!2 Spring 1909, Diplomacy
End of phase: in 24 hours
Pot: 74
Players:

Napoleon Bonaparte (18) as England (): 1 units
Last logged in: Tue 11 PM
Monk of Majere (83) as France
Last logged in: Fri 22 Feb
SoothingOceanSounds (85) as Italy (): 11 units
Last logged in: 09:51 PM
happyklim (0) as Germany (): 9 units
Last logged in: 10:13
silent_hunter (84) as Austria (): 12 units
Last logged in: 10:13
timchau (64) as Turkey
Last logged in: Mon 10 PM
pokemon trainer (90) as Russia
Last logged in: Mon 05 AM


And look at their join dates...9th Feb and 10th Feb...and in that game, they never seem to backstab when the situation seems perfect.
Check...
25 replies
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
08 Mar 08 UTC
NEW Players - FEB/MAR
I've noticed a lot of new names in the games recently. Welcome to PhpDip.
how about you guys introduce yourselves and tell us a bit about your dip exp etc.
19 replies
Open
keeper0018 (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Kestas, please draw game "Megatron"
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gid=2938&msgmembershipid=16859

The others will post their agreement there. I'm Austria.
4 replies
Open
sean (3490 D(B))
06 Mar 08 UTC
white russia and the map
im sure this has been asked bef0re but why isnt russia white? isnt it white in the board game? it didnt look good? how about a cream/beige?
ive always thought the phpdip board a little too dark. some ligher colours might make it look nicer. and if it was lighter that would allow germany to be black...a much cooler looking colour than brown.
8 replies
Open
positron (1160 D)
09 Mar 08 UTC
Suggestions for Kestas
Countries in CD should defend themselves. Units that can should hold support each other.

In the fall, countries without SCs, that cannot retreat into an open SC, should not be asked to retreat and disband. Too many players don't finalize those steps. The remaining players get to wait 48 hours.
3 replies
Open
Mussolini (125 D)
08 Mar 08 UTC
Replying to people who always accuse, me, timchau, happyklim or other players in my class.
Let me explain to you guys about me and the players in my class first:

I am from Hong Kong, China.

I am in F.3, i.e. grade 9

My classmates playing phpDiplomacy include:

1. myself

2. saradomian

3. Gobbledydook

4. Chairman Mao

5. kn2005

6. timchau

7. happyklim

8. jasperleeabc

9.galaxypheonix

We are in the same class, and gobbledydook introduces this game to me. Soon, many of my classmates join, and we also like playing together. Playing in the the same game is not forbidden.

So I sincerely hope that you guys will stop making up things like we all are meta gaming.

Replying to sean:

Sometimes our classmate dosen't have enough points or don't want to play such low pot games. Also, some of us don't have too much time to play so many games. So, if we want to play private games, we would rather play the game on paper during the lesson... or free time :D

I hope this will answer all the questions to all of us.
7 replies
Open
Chrispminis (916 D)
04 Mar 08 UTC
Babysitter Wanted!
So, I'm going away for five days to Montreal during March break, and I'm looking for someone to take care of my account during the period. I'm only in one game, and it's basically a guaranteed win, so it's very low maintenance.

I'll be gone from March 7th to March 12th. E-mail me at [email protected] if you think you can take this job. Only two requirements, that you be relatively known and trustworthy, and obviously you aren't participating in my one game...

Thanks in advance!

- Chris
34 replies
Open
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
08 Mar 08 UTC
End of phase: 25 hours???
GFDT R2 G3 Spring 1911, Diplomacy
End of phase: in 25 hours
Pot: 29
Players:

Gobbledydook (157) as England (): 4 units
figlesquidge (1878) as France (): 11 units
Civil Disorder Italy (100) as Italy
ravendevil (617) as Germany
thewonderllama (283) as Austria (): 17 units
TheMaster (92) as Turkey
Chrispminis (980) as Russia
Enter game
1 reply
Open
kestasjk (95 DMod(P))
08 Mar 08 UTC
Downtime
phpDip had about 2 hours of downtime today, because Dreamhost made a typo in their core router config. The games have been set to have 2 hours more time
0 replies
Open
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Alive in the land of the dead
an essay by sicarius. If you are not interested do not read. simple huh?
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
The 20th Century has marked the end of the millennium that saw the world become colonized by and organized under Western civilization, that saw the industrial revolution and overpopulation restructure both humanity and the very surface of the earth itself. This century began with fifty years of alternating slaughter, starvation, and rabid nationalism such as the human race had never seen before. It is concluding with an ominous silence among young people in the United States and much of Europe, for with the end of the "Cold War" the idea that there really is any alternative at all to our modern living conditions and society is becoming hard to conceive of; and in the meantime, we are becoming more and more organized and arranged by the technological systems that we set up with the supposed intentions of making our lives more free and meaningful.

As this century is ending with sentimental retrospectives and the like, what we really must do is not look back but look ahead. Now more than ever we must consider whether our modern lives as we have come to live them over the last thousand years really satisfy all our needs and desires as human beings, and prepare for the new millennium to be a new chapter in the human experiment. We must use the lessons we have learned from the 20th Century to plan for a new era in which human life can be meaningful and fulfilling, even thrilling, heroic. Or have we learned any lessons?

Don't wait for permission, for some far-off "world revolution," for later "when you have more time." Demand joy, danger, passion in your life today!

About the Problem
The poverty against which man has been struggling throughout history is not merely the poverty of material goods; the ennui and disorientation experienced by the members of the middle and upper classes in today's wealthy industrial nations have revealed the poverty of Western existench itself.

The problems that we face today cannot be traced to class conflict alone. It is not merely a question of the ruling class profiting at the expense of the proletariat, for we have seen that the profit that those with capital do make does not make their lives any more fulfilling. It does not matter whether a woman is buried alive in a prison, in a reform school, in a sweatshop, in a ghetto, in a prestigious university, in a condominium bought on credit, or in a mansion with a private swimming pool and tennis courts, so long as she is buried alive. Everyone suffers from today's status quo, albeit differently; but whether a man is starving on his minimum wage salary, exhausted by his repetitive responsibilities at the office, or befuddled by the curious feeling of emptiness that accompanies the undirected acquisition of material wealth, he has a stake in fighting for change. So we all, rich and poor, must band together to consider our situation and struggle to alter it.

This also means that there is no mythical "They." Innumerable radical movements and social critics have relied upon this concept to motivate people by stirring up hatred for the "evil orchestrators" of human suffering, the enemies who conspire against us. But this kind of thinking only serves to divide us against each other, and whether we are divided on class lines, on color lines, or according to any other categories, we are distracted from the important issues and impeded in our progress. Our true "enemy" is the social forces and patterns at work between ourselves, and it is these forces which we must come to understand and to struggle against.

This is not to say that there are not individuals whose behavior is particularly dangerous to their fellow human beings, insofar as it perpetuates or intensifies our present state of emergency. But even if these individuals do have negative intentions towards others, it is still unlikely that they possess a clear understanding of the extremely complicated conditions to which they are contributing.

About the Process
We individuals who are unsatisfied with their lives, who do feel the "poverty" of the existench that modern Western civilization has to offer, must seek out others who are experiencing similar symptoms. Together, we must construct and publicize an analysis of our situation: a theory of why human beings act and interact in the ways that they do today, and how this leads to our sensations of alienation, disorientation, and exhaustion.

This analysis must have effective action of some kind as its necessary and immediate consequence, or else (as have the theories of a long tradition of "radical" discussion groups) it will come to nothing.

And this struggle presupposes participants who are fighting for themselves, to see and feel change and improvement in the course of their own lives—as we shall see . . .

About the Solution
Whatever solution, whatever revolution, we propose, must be present-oriented rather than future-oriented if it is to be genuinely revolutionary.

The past and the present are both full of examples which indicate this. To consider one: Christianity demands of its followers that they delay gratification until they enter the next world, when they will supposedly be rewarded for their proper conduct; in doing so it assumes that this proper conduct is not fulfilling enough in itself to be worthwhile unless it is rewarded. This kind of thinking reflects a dire misunderstanding of the nature of human happiness; for happiness is to be found in activity, in activities that are exciting and satisfying in and of themselves, rather than in passively awaiting rewards for unsatisfying activities. Therefore it is not surprising that many devout Christians are bitter, spiteful individuals who jealously resent healthy activity and excitement in others—for they believe that they will find true happiness only in their "heavenly reward" for behavior that is not at all exciting for them, and thus must watch enviously as others freely do what they can only dream of doing in their most "sinful" fantasies. Conversely, many Christians who are happy are happy despite their Christianity, because they are able to take pleasure in their lives and deeds in this world.

Traditional Marxism takes the Christian mistake one step further by asking its adherents to work towards a revolution they will probably never live to see—that is, in the Marxist "faith," gratification is delayed beyond the reach of human experience. It should be no surprise that today, beyond a little anachronistic romanticism about the "nobility" of self-sacrifice, the Marxist offer serves as little incentive for people to seriously fight for the "communist revolution." In contrast, today's capitalistic consumer market at least promises prompt gratification in the form of material goods (and the myths and images it associates with them) in return for the generally unsatisfying labor it requires. But—does it deliver true gratification to its participants?

Again, happiness is an active experience, not a passive sensation. Thus, a woman who cooks a recipe of her own invention for her friends may find a great deal of pleasure and meaning in this undertaking, while a man who slaves all day to cook exotic food in an expensive restaurant will find that the purchases he makes with his paycheck cannot compensate him for the days of his life he has given up. You can purchase a twenty acre estate, the latest in status-symbol automobiles, and an entire wardrobe of unique and exquisite fashions, but the pleasure that these possessions afford cannot compare to the exhilaration of spending a day freely pursuing your desires.

Accordingly, our revolution must be an immediate revolution in our daily lives; anything else is not a revolution but a demand that once again people do what they do not want to do and hope that this time, somehow, the compensation will be enough. Those who assume, often unconsciously, that it is impossible to achieve their own desires—and thus, that it is futile to fight for themselves—often end up fighting for an ideal or cause instead. But it is still possible to fight for ourselves, or at least the experiment must be worth a try; so it is crucial that we seek change not in the name of some doctrine or grand cause, but on behalf of ourselves, so that we will be able to live more meaningful lives. Similarly we must seek first and foremost to alter the contents of our own lives in a revolutionary manner, rather than direct our struggle towards world-historical changes which we will not live to witness. In this way we will avoid the feelings of worthlessness and alienation that result from believing that it is necessary to "sacrifice oneself for the cause," and instead live to experience the fruits of our labors. . . in our labors themselves.

To put it another way, our revolution must be above all a revolution in the ways we live and think. It must be a recognition and rejection of the thought patterns and patterns of social interaction that have led us to today's unsatisfying existench, in favor of patterns of thought and interaction that will be satisfying in themselves. It must be a revolution in our motivations, replacing reward-motivated behavior with behavior that is intrinsically meaningful. It must be a revolution in our everyday lives. Rejecting boredom, exhaustion, and despair for excitement, danger, love, passion and compassion—that is a revolution worth fighting for! And certainly there are large scale, long term goals that we must fight for, to make this revolution possible for all of us in the years to come; but we should fight for these goals not out of servitude to a doctrine or cause, but because it is exciting and invigorating today to strive for difficult and worthy objectives.

Alive in the land of the dead. They eat dead food with false teeth. Their buildings have false fronts, their radio and television stations broadcast dead air. They kill time as spectators of false images. Their corporations are guilty of false advertising, and their employment 'opportunities' offer only murderous mistreatment, lethal boredom, and fatal submission; they demand that you meet deadlines, that you pitch tent in the death camps. Does the dead end justify the means? They inhabit dead cities and make false moves, really going nowhere at all, treading day after day the same path of despair. Even their air is conditioned. They ask you to give your lives for their countries, for their religions, for their economies, leaving you with only. . . . Their system is organized by artificial intelligence and provides only virtual reality. Their culture will pin you down and bore you to death, their lifestyle is lifeless, their existench is a permanent deadlock. Everything about them is dead and false. The only thing that is unbearable is that nothing is unbearable. When will we demand more?
Tucobenedicto (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
That's much better.

I'm still not going to read it though.
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
There are alot of self proclaimed anarchists on this site.
what do you think of my essay?

-Sicarius
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
i think your perspective is unlikely to change, but i think your oppositional/binary logic entrenches in your own life that which you see outside you and condemn. i would say, see a psychoanalyst - not in a bad way, but for someone to bounce these ideas around who is knowledgeable about these dynamics.
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Someone who gets paid an exorbent amount of money to listen to people and tell them why they're wrong? No thanks. I'm not troubled or insane, and I dont need someone to tell me so because my views are different form their cookie-cutter beliefs.
Fearless (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Even their air is conditioned. They ask you to give your lives for their countries, for their religions, for their economies, leaving you with only. . . . Their system is organized by artificial intelligence and provides only virtual reality.

_stated by Pandora or whoever, - my comment, WOW

I personally understand your statements, but in a world as corrupt and religious based as ours, i'm surprised you dont ever get your head kicked in, no offence.

In england people are being arrested because their influencing others of their own religion to kill none-believers, we are looked upon as infidels and all the other muck, i'm glad you have free reign of speech, i'd be more careful if i was the one to state my own opinion :P

but..i live in a not so nice area xD

but, on the good side, for someone whos what - 17, you have a good outlook on life, when i was 17, all i cared about was .. well .... bad thing xD like..smoking bad stuff, drinking, and doing that thing pathetic people do and *hang* in groups, as if we were somehow cool....meh.... >.>
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
actually people routinly try to "kick my head in"
I'm 18. "pandora" is 17. right now we're living with 4 other people, ages 15, 23, 32, and 35
drugs and alcohol cloud the mind and keep the user from accomplishing anything. not saying I dont drink or smoke but when it, in itself becomes a past-time, then I think you are a little unfullfilled.

yes, america has wonderful free speech rights. but our rights are shrinking.

if you "personally understand my statements" are you saying you agree?
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
being signed in as myself may help reduce confusion..
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
i didn't say you were troubled or insane, though your views on what psychoanalysts are warped. and frankly, you are troubled. you are extremely combative and hostile to the world. hey, you know what? most people don't see it that way. and that's not because you know something they dont.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
I'm only hostile to the world that has been fabricated and forced upon us
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
for as many anarchists are on this site, I am al ittle suprised to be getting no support
Fearless (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC

I dont agree entirely, but neither do i disagree, i respect everyones opinion, but i find myself pretty much an outcast in concerns of the world, my views are pretty much random.

Like, i believe in no god, yet i'm Agnostic, i've buried my sister twice, so i believe there is something after death, otherwise people just die without a reason.

Granted, i find christians and all other religions annoying, i respect their wishes and beliefs, but i cant believe in something that has never been proven or even displayed, there has not once been an occurance in history where something happened which made us all go OMFG.

No, the germans murdered the jews, we've had world wars, africa is suffering, people die all the time, muslims kill christians, christians i bet kill muslims, seeks just pray 24/7..but apart from that, nothing god-like has ever really been bestowed upon us.

I think the goverments are all corrupt, and i personally hate englands goverment, authority and whatever else puts us in stupid wars, no one is truly free in this world.

No matter how much people think they are, your always going to be dictated by laws, rules and regulations brought to us by others xD

It's better that way, i guess without it the world would all just think, screw it! ... but ... as i said, i respect your opinions Pandora, or whoever i was talking to, but their not fully my beliefs, as i doubt mine are yours.

As for all the other people moaning, their just saying their opinions, no need for some people to over react like they are doing.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
I think the goverments are all corrupt, and i personally hate englands goverment, authority and whatever else puts us in stupid wars, no one is truly free in this world.

do something about it

yes, many people are very hot on an internet forum. if this debate were in person, it would be much more subdued I think. it's my essay, she was just on at the moment so I used her thing to post it.
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
oh boo hoo. yes, being alive has been forced on the living. your challenge is to live authentically in accordance with your soul. if you are doing that, great. it is entirely possible your destiny is to essentially be an anti-system misanthrope who believes everyone but you are duped - and you may come up with fine, challenging perspectives that help inform people who may never have thought of what you are telling them. but your opinion about the world, and about where we are, where we have been, and where we are going, is fundamentally wrong. civilization is quite young, and yet in a very short amount of time, relatively speaking, we have come so far. you correctly discern some valuable insights, particularly the relationship between christianity and marxism - the ideas that animate them, though you have it exactly backward. the development of the christian church, the communion of saints, the universal (catholic) faith, is an enormous development in the history of humankind. you really have very little perspective about from where we have come and what we have had to do to get where we are.

but in case you haven't noticed, many do experience danger and are trying to avoid it - like if you're born in a place where famine is regular, people are trying to secure a stable supply of food. or if you're born where diseases are a danger, people are working to get those folks medicine. there are many people who experience joy all the time, and amazingly are comfortable with the world as it is. and frankly, there is no shortage of passion.

the poverty of western civilization - what a joke. these technological advances, these social advances for better quality of life, a thriving civil society, greater equality and opportunity so that each may pursue the kind of life he or she chooses to pursue - while not yet universal - are not just happenstance, but are part and parcel of the RICHNESS of the western tradition, the enlightenment, the development and proclamation of universalist ethics, and the possibility of human progress on the yet unseen horizon.

these are inspirational, these are joyful, these are passions. these are meaningful.

but it is not merely that you are wrong. it is that yours is the kind of wrongness that can only come about through real privilege. sweatshop equals university? prisons are equal to tennis courts? this is a revolting, offensive, disgusting philosophy. you, who are informed about the need to get rid of the prison injustices, the need to get rid of sweatshops, you would dare WASTE your knowledge on the disgusting equivocation to its opposite? to tell people to give up on everything, to give up on the idea of working together to better ourselves? we have been working together to benefit our lives for millenia and we have come too damned far for some privileged western kids to trash the whole thing. get to work and stop bitching, in other words.

people are already engaged in their present moment. people are already leveraging their ethics and morality and their faith in their moment to moment living. it is you who steps back and imagines this utopian future, it is you who disparages the present.

THIS is why you ought to see a psychoanalyst. the psychoanalyst will introduce you to the concept of transference, about how what you feel about yourself implicates how you view the world.

i am quite confident you are very intelligent, and that you have the capacity to make very meaningful changes in this world if you come to terms with your basic hostility and antagonism about this world. because many billions of people view this life as the gift it is, as a precious gift not to be trashed by negative and hostile views but to be engaged, yes, criticized fairly where that is applicable, but criticized for the purpose of continuing the ancient tradition of improving on what we have been given by virtue of birth.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
many billions of people view this life as the gift it is, as a precious gift not to be trashed by negative and hostile views but to be engaged, yes, criticized fairly where that is applicable, but criticized for the purpose of continuing the ancient tradition of improving on what we have been given by virtue of birth.
I completly and totally beleive in these words with all my heart. where we differ is what we consider improvement and advancement
also I never said that I dont value cooperation, it is extremley important, neccessary.

and no I am not some privileged white east coast liberal who drives a hummer to environmental rallies. I grew up below the poverty line, have been the victim of racism and police brutality, and I have known real suffering. I have not lived in america for all my life, I know what it is to be truly hungry.
my views are hostile only to that which hinders us a a race.

Also I refuse to accept religion as the great acheivement you seem to think it is.

withdraw your own hostility, there is no need for an exchange of ideas to become an argument
Fearless (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Change it..haha, like that'll EVER happen.

Theres nothing anyone can do, goverments preach that they'll do whats good for a country and then when their in power, they destroy not only its economic system, but they basically let all of EUROPE into 1 small ass country.

I wouldn't mind the high immigration levels, or the fact the tax i pay to the goverment was spent on mosks or whatever their called and religious factors for other countries IF they spent that sort of money on their own damn people.

You get some retards entering england, getting cars, ncie houses, jobs..the LOT, and the english instead suffers, our taxes increase, we cant get houses, everything gets harder for us and easier for them.

I don't dislike nor like immigrants, i dispise this country and everything it now stands for. But to change it, that'd only be achieved if america pushed that lovely button and destroyed the entire world.

People always go on about changing the world - lets face it, everythings been getting worse, yeah stuff technology, all technological advances ever brought to us was nuclear warheads and a good reason to seclude ourselves within small pitiful lives where we spend the entire time watching tv, playing games or whatever.

Even now, you all hover around a computer talking complete trash - cuz lets face it, it is trash, it's a meanignless debate about something that can and never be changed, if it could - it would have years ago.

And besides...according to these so called scientists..everyones going to die sooner or later..thanks to global warming - year..so much for technology..we enjoy ourselves whilst we destroy the world..and if your religious..a world that we was BESTOWED UPON by god...or whatever.

Its all complete rubbish....
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
ha, sure in the abstract, but i'm arguing you are wrong. i'm not interested in conceding an inch to your extremely misanthropic, harmful and flat out false perspective. the sum of the parts of what you are saying is greater than the whole of what you are saying. i think you are on the path but the destination you are saying we have all arrived at is only a stop along your way.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Change it..haha, like that'll EVER happen.

well your defeatest attitude isnt helping. any major change in history has been caused by a small number of people.

fwancophile- enough analogies, what exactly do you disagree with, and why, and what is your solution
Fearless (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
What, and i somehow have the ability to make things change lol..thats ridiculious, if it was so easy, wouldnt everything be hunky dory by now lol.

I'm not a negative person, nor do i have a defeatest attitude, i just dont believe the world can be changed like you so happily believe.

Prove me if i'm wrong, but speaking on this forum won't do anything, speaking like this on any internet, won't do anything.

Back in the day, it was a lot different, people had a say, revolts and riots were common things, but we can no longer achieve those things.

regardless if you admit it, or even believe it - you..and everyone else cannot do a damn thing about the troubles or concerns of this world.

Someone mentioned helping the poor, like the 3rd world countries, how much money do we invest in their survival, and still every 17 seconds someone dies, africa is run by groups and political gangs, they won't be *saved* from their *dangers* for a long long time, if at all if things continue as they are.

Time passes, even bacteria, infections and basic virus' are adapting to our bodies immune systems, their learning quicker then our bodies are.

You never seen commercials, you never thought how pathetic it is that all the recent kids are dying from nut allergies or getting seriously ill from a basic cold or whatever. We are weakening..why do people still think were expanding xD even TB has come back, in a new form that we cannot cure, yet it can still kill us.

Then theres bird flu, and every other disease we keep spreading around. Maybe i am just negative :D but what the hell, i've spent my entire life either struggling .. and now that i'm finally finacially comfortable, england falls apart...its hardly the biggest motivational boost for ya country :P
Tucobenedicto (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
>>fwancophile

Thank you for articulating my hatred for these people so eloquently.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Back in the day, it was a lot different, people had a say, revolts and riots were common things, but we can no longer achieve those things.

these things still happen, alot more than you would think. the media does not show all that is happening, and I think most of it is intentional.

tucobenedicto- If you hate us so much why are you following our thread so closley? why not just ignore us?

"if the sun troubles you, draw the blind"
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
i disagree with your fundamental premise, that this world is fabricated and forced on us, that it is some unfair version of what it could be, that there is this possibility of freedom and authenticity that is being actively denied. i view the facts that you cite, much of what is true, as being less some sort of ominous or awful plot or some sort of diversion away from what as true, as more a reflection that the task of building toward these universal ideals is a long, hard slog. civilization is scarcely 12,000 years old, language is scarcely 100,000 years old, even primates have been around for only a fraction of the time this planet has existed, our sun, this galaxy, this entire cosmos. change is slow when you measure it given an individual's lifetime - though admittedly, we are now at a point and have been for probably 200 years, where even in one lifetime change comes quite quickly - it is very slow given an individual's lifetime but considering how ancient this cosmos is, and how young our civilization is, you cannot hold what has not been accomplished against the project on a whole. you must count what has been done, recognize that what has been done has been done with the intention of making gains vis-a-vis those criticisms you rightly raise. and i think you too often make sweeping assertions - say about the orientation toward the present versus the future - that discount that billions, perhaps even a majority, of people, already take as an immanent fact of their existence. or perhaps even the criticism is misplaced, future and present are in many ways intermingled, not to the detriment of the present, but to a rich experience of the human life. essentially, i reject what i see as your pessimism, even your pissy-ism. things are pretty great, considering the nothing they could be, and by working together, recognizing both our limitations and potentials, in time, in centuries and millenia and 100,000 years from now, we will find that we continue to cultivate a higher state of being. we don't to reject this, we don't need to say, the failures of our social systems are reasons to reject the social systems, so much as say, the failures of our social systems are reasons that we need to continue this chosen project to take on those failures. where did it all start? it all started with growing a stable supply of food. to reject what we have now is to go back to that point and say, humans should prefer scarcity to cultivating the potential of our intelligence, to cultivating our creative freedom.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
scarcity? to starve a hunter gatherer would require the destruction of almost all multicellular life. to stave farmers/agriculturists requires a slightly dry summer.

And I dont accept your philosophy of "things could be worse, lets jsut accept what we have" to some extent I agree, we are all luckey to be alive. but to not be active in change, in betterment and just lettign things take their course is ridiculous. it's like if you tripped and landed face first in a huge pile of dogshit. instead of lifting up your head and cleaning it you think, well at least its not horseshit, ill just leave it on it will come off by itself eventually.

why would you turn your back on betterment?
Tucobenedicto (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
>>Sicarius

Because you assholes are completely dominating the forum. It's like this, your girlfriend's religion thread, and Chrispminis asking for a babysitter.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
I think you are stuck in a set way of thinking, and you are reluctant to change it. you must reject the basic assumptins of civilization, especially the importance of material possessions'
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
i am saying to NOT turn your back on betterment - what we have IS what betterment means. betterment means perfection will always be pushed a little bit further. betterment means failure too. bettermeant means you don't discount what has been done. bettermeant means it takes a looong ass time.
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
it doesnt have to
Sicarius (673 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
what I'm seeing in most of you is the tradgedy of the commons. you dont think you can change anything so you dont try, you're just one person. but wjen everyone thinks like that then nothing gets done
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
I learned about the tradedy of the commons in college lol
Pandora (100 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
ecology I think, they used iit to demonstrate how overfishing happens. everyone fishes and thinks oh this little bit wont hurt, but everyone does it and then the fish are gone.

kinda like whats happenign now, with our governments huge subsidies to the fishing industry, allowing them to overfish past the point of commercial extinction
shad08 (183 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
Honestly how many revolutions or riots actually achieve something...most of the time they just get shot. Whats the point in having one if nothing happens...noone will ever be able to pull of another Ghandi or MLK, now its just all violence and disorganized riots that just lead to death. I agree with the keeping out of war stuff, but i think the other points are a little harsh
fwancophile (164 D)
07 Mar 08 UTC
commercial extinction? have you been paying attention to the arctic fishing discoveries? we have scarcely skimmed the surface of fishing chances.
Pandora (100 D)
08 Mar 08 UTC
well when the room is empty and you find something under the carpet that doesnt really mena anything.
actually marine biologists predict that if nothing is done 90% of ocean life will be extinct by 2050. okay known ocean life little smartey pants
Redarmy (146 D)
08 Mar 08 UTC
Pandora, I'm going to go ahead and say 60% of earth's bodies of water still have a lot of mystery about them and their inhabitants. I can slightly agree with majority of the currently "fished" fish (fish we aim to fish) will be endangered, but not all ocean life extinct. In fact, deep sea fish might start being hunted once we get decent enough technology.
fwancophile (164 D)
08 Mar 08 UTC
or alternatively ad hoc regulation will allow the fish stocks to be restored over time. extinction, no, diminishment, we'll work somewhat hard to avoid that and still respect the economic interests at stake.


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Iggy24 (151 D)
08 Mar 08 UTC
Join iggster
51 pt game! PLZ JOIN!
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sean (3490 D(B))
27 Feb 08 UTC
bored at work politics thread
Was wondering about the people who play on this site, their politcal leanings. im a good ol` Anarcho-Syndicalist myself.
but from a few mumbles and other hints im guess there is a quite widespread community of right wing nut jobs on this site too;)
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