Last game was very different to this one bb. It was quite an anomaly. In general voting to end early is stupid. And it certainly is stupid in a game like this one where chaos and madness will reign supreme.

And Jamie was new and inexperienced in that game. Voting end wasn't a good idea there either, and Balki can't play the noob card.

I have a few things to address.

1. OBG says that my suggestion at the start of the game that we lynch the last to post suggests that I am cult leader. His rationale is that I might know that the last to post will not be me or my cult partner, and so my suggestion keeps us both safe.

2. Several people say that we should lynch me because I want Day 1 to End.

3. My Bo vote.

I address all three below.

1. SUGGESTING THAT WE LYNCH LAST TO POST IS NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE

If I am cult leader, OBG is correct that I might want to lynch last to post because I am sure it won’t be me or my cult partner. But that does not distinguish me from any other role. If I am a Mason, the same logic applies. I might be confident that my partner will not be last to post, or has already posted. If I am scum, I might be confident that my mafia partners will not be last to post, or have already posted. If I am a Town PR or Traitor, I might just be hoping that the first lynch is not me, and so I want to provide some meaningful way of singling out a target who is not me.

To make matters muddier, the “last to post” suggestion picked up no steam, it was an unlikely sell within this crowd, and I abandoned it in favor of a Bo lynch the moment that he became, in my view, the person with the highest likelihood of flipping Town/Cult. The “last to post” suggestion was a decent way to start the discussion, and it fulfills my goal of “anyone but me.” But every role has that goal.

My behavior is only consistent with being a cult leader to the same extent it is consistent with any other role. In other words, my behavior is not alignment indicative.

2. ADVOCATING A HAMMER ON DAY 1 IS NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE

This is not sour grapes from last game. I think Day 1 in this phase is pretty silly. In most games, town outnumbers scum by far, and so it is useful for everyone to scumhunt on Day 1 so that the people who are insincere in that effort are easier to spot. You can find scum because scum are the only ones faking it.

Here, the 2 Masons would be pleased to lynch anyone but them. The 2 cult leaders would be pleased to lynch anyone but them. The 3 mafia PRs would be pleased to lynch anyone but them. And the Town PRs and Traitors don’t know who anyone else is, and just want to survive. Because everyone’s goals are so similar – almost identical – it is incredibly unlikely to be able to tell what someone’s role is based on their Day 1 actions. I expect everyone to have basically the same agenda – survival. With a few people having the additional goal of protecting one or two other people.

With those factors at play, I don’t think Day 1 is useful. If you say “Day 1 is useful for information.” What information? Everyone should have virtually identical agendas no matter what role they have. And useful to whom? To the Town PRs who are more in the dark than anyone? I’m not interested in helping Town PRs.

For all of these reasons, I think this game should have started on Night 1. I think this day phase is silly, and I want to end it as soon as possible. That is not alignment indicative. It simply shows that I have considered this format with rational eyes.

3. I THINK BO IS MORE LIKELY THAN ANYONE TO FLIP TOWN/CULT

While I don’t believe Day 1 will provide much meaningful evidence of anything, given our common ambitions for self-preservation, I think we’ve received a lucky break. Bo’s statement that he is hunting for Scum PRs and Cult Leaders suggests to me that he is playing the game from the perspective of town. I think that it is possible that someone who drew Cult, or Mafia, or Traitor would say something like that, but more likely that someone who drew a Town PR would spend less time thinking about the peculiar characteristics of this “Reverse Mafia” format, and would make a statement like that. Bo did not run away from it either.

This isn’t a smoking gun by any means. I don’t think it is a particularly strong case. But on this day when everyone is basically just trying to survive, I don’t expect that we’ll get any better evidence that someone is Town/Cult. I still think we should lynch Bo, and I still think we should hammer.

Of course I realize that voting to hammer draws attention. So be it.

And I'll add -- nothing has made me giggle out loud quite so schoolgirlishly as reading brainbomb say this:

"Which is why there is an easier alternative to dealing with Balki. 'Ignore him'."

That was great.

Balki - Was your vote on me specifically due to my adjudication last game?

Also ##vote Bo. I think he's the most clear target out there.

@Captainmeme, I don't get the idea of going after a known town/traitor right now, only a cult would want that to happen, there is no point for mafia to kill him, he is on the same team,lynching aside ofcourse. Masons can convert him later on and if he is cult he dies as well. Mind explaining to me ?

So are you a cult or mafia ? :)

Delarosa - I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Bo townslipped, so is probably town or cult, not a traitor or mafia. Since the majority of us are mafia sided we should lynch him.

To people proposing that we leave him to the mafia nightkill - why? He's the obvious lynch, why force the mafia to use the kill that cult/town have no influence over on him when we can lynch him?

i'm of the opinion that he is a traitor, since everything is in reverse here. So there is no need to go after him since we know his role so early on. lynching is just wasting human resource. Go after someone with a PR is much more important

Hi guys, what you doing?

Loving, loving, loving this set-up. This is going to be fun.

I'm going to ##vote delarosa - just because new guys can sometimes feel left out, and we wouldn't want that.

I'm going to ##unvote - because voting early is stupid, and I ain't stupid, I ain't and I have a certificate on my wall to prove it.

And I'm going to use my vote last, like so close to the deadline that you'll all think I'll be too late. But I won't be. And when I do vote I'll probably tie the vote because....

well I'm sure you'll all figure that out soon enough.

Laters

Is there a minimum post rule by the way.....?

lol 2 substantial posts

While were toying with lynching Lurkers why are we considering HR a traitor?

Delarosa - why do you think that Bo is a traitor?

"The cultists will probably hide. They're weak right now. They're stronger once they start converting people. I don't know how I would play if I were a mason." -Bo.
I've no actual idea, but just my interpretation

lurkers are so powerful here, there is 19 people, its hard to track who is active and who is not. Lurking will just keep prying eyes away. Thats why we must dig them out

Vashta explained this earlier, but I feel the need to go into detail here.

@BrainB: Your claim of Traitors being free agents is crazy, and let me explain why:
1) You claim it will help your own team (as a Traitor). I presume you mean the Mafia team by this, but you're wrong. Since you will join the Cultists/Masons and therefore change victory condition, you're only helping the team you are no longer on yourself!

2) While you are correct that the Masons would love to target a "VT" (i.e. Traitor, so VM would be more appropiate), the Cultists would rather convert a PR! So you may or may not be helping your new team. Also, if both target you, no one but Mafia is happy but that shot is too long to gun for.

3) It wouldn't be good for yourself. Being a Cultist Minion or Masoned VT increases your odds of dying, because you have a leader that you need to keep alive in addition to yourself. Even if you think the Cultists and/or Masons are favoured to win (and you would therefore want to join them), it is strictly better to join later and decrease your odds of dying along the way.

4) This is not mentioned before, but something you (and those who value scoring across games) should keep in mind: If you win as a converted cultist, you score less points than you would for a full win. This is not implemented yet, but it will be.
Think about; it makes sense. You deserve more points if you win as a Cult Leader than you do as a Traitor that was converted and then won as Cultist.

What I was trying to say: BrainB, you were very wrong.

I'm willing to overlook this mistake as the set-up is so new (and because I'm unsure as of yet towards which role I should interpret your slip), but I reckon you should think about the implications of your declared strategy a bit more.

@Bo: Could you (re)post (or direct me to) your defence regarding your presumed townslip? You mentioned you really wanted to gun Mafia PRs, but since we're all Traitors (i.e. Vanilla Mafia) that's a good reason to lynch you.

##Vote Bo

I will retract this vote if you have a good defence as I can understand the set-up of this game is confusing; I had to re-read it a few times myself. BrainB mentioned your defence, I think, but I was unable to find it. My bad, probably.

@Balki: Even though you retracted that hideous proposal, let's make it very clear: Last to post is not first to lurk..
There's a clear 2-useful-post-per-(day)-phase rule, so we should focus our lurker shunnings on those who barely meet this requirement in the end.

Balki - "If I am cult leader, OBG is correct that I might want to lynch last to post because I am sure it won’t be me or my cult partner. But that does not distinguish me from any other role. If I am a Mason, the same logic applies. "

Not true, counselor. If you were a mason, you would not know who your entire team is (e.g. tracker, Vig, QM) and would put your team at a significant disadvantage if you mislynch a town PR. So advocating a last-to-post lynch strategy is not in the mason's best interests. I will grant that it may be in the interest of a mafia PR, but it is most consistent with a cult leader's best interests to attempt direct the lynch away from the cult leaders.

Unofficial vote count:

Bo_sox (5): Cap'nM, Chaqa, Vashta, Claesar, Balki
Balki (4): OB_Gyn, Bo_sox, Ghug, Asimov
Ghug (2): y2k, Brainb
Chaqa (1): Flum
Guak (1): Xorxes
Brainb (1): Guak

Unvote (1): Maniac
Needs moar vote (4): Vecna, Hr, Jamiet, Delarosa

Let me emphasise that this is not an official count.

##vote Balki

OFFICIAL Day 1 Vote Count 3.000000

bo_sox48 (5): Balki, Vash, Chaqa, meme, Claesar
Balki Bartokomous (4): OB, ghug, Mr. A, delarosa
ghug (2): y2k, brain
guak (1): xorxes
brainbomb (1): guak
Chaqa (1): Flum
Vash (1): bo

Currently, BO_SOX48 is set to be lynched.
You have 33 hours and 40 minutes until the End of Day 1.

Unvote (1): Maniac
No Vote (3): Vecna, HR, Jamiet

(Updated to include end votes):
OFFICIAL Day 1 Vote Count 3.000001

bo_sox48 (5): Balki, Vash, Chaqa, meme, Claesar
Balki Bartokomous (4): OB, ghug, Mr. A, delarosa
ghug (2): y2k, brain
guak (1): xorxes
brainbomb (1): guak
Chaqa (1): Flum
Vash (1): bo

Currently, BO_SOX48 is set to be lynched.
You have 33 hours and 40 minutes until the End of Day 1.

Unvote (1): Maniac
No Vote (3): Vecna, HR, Jamiet

END (1/10): Balki

(Updated because I got the time remaining wrong):
OFFICIAL Day 1 Vote Count 3.000010

bo_sox48 (5): Balki, Vash, Chaqa, meme, Claesar
Balki Bartokomous (4): OB, ghug, Mr. A, delarosa
ghug (2): y2k, brain
guak (1): xorxes
brainbomb (1): guak
Chaqa (1): Flum
Vash (1): bo

Currently, BO_SOX48 is set to be lynched.
You have 33 hours and 33 minutes until the End of Day 1.

Unvote (1): Maniac
No Vote (3): Vecna, HR, Jamiet

END (1/10): Balki

I'm keeping my vote on ghug now but I'm definitely in favor of lynching the player that lurks the most.

whats the arguement against ghug ?

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES

SPAM
Spamming (defined as excessive content-free posting; or, excessive posting regarding subjects irrelevant to the game) is not mod-killed by rule in this game. The in-game voting mechanic exists to curb any advantage that spamming as a tactic may confer; please reference the “VOTING” section above for more information. Suffice to say that spamming is not worth anyone’s time in this setup, and will be frowned upon, so while you may not be lynched or mod-killed for spamming, please refrain from doing so.

^ TrPrado - Please note