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The trouble is Thoreau is wrong about Britain. Public rights of way crisscross over the entire length of the land. Many are as ancient as those Roman remains over which he scorns. Some more so. My anger at the landowners (which Draug, perhaps understandably, misunderstood) was not a jealousy over them owning what I want, but a fury over them trying to steal what was every Englishman's birthright. They would allow the paths to fall into disrepair, build barriers in front of them, and do their best to make the public ways their own private empires.

In recent years the right to roam act has sounded the death knell for such actions. The Scots, to their eternal credit, have had a right to go wherever the hell they like since time immemorial.

It is a shame Thoreau let his experience of London fashions and the Imperial public face of the Kingdom blind him to the realities of rural Britain. Although he may have found it a little claustrophobic, he may have been pleasantly surprised.

I don't think Thoreau actually hated Britain, Oct, I just emphasize that side of him to spite you.

A more accurate depicition of his feeling about foreign lands was that he had no need of them - to be content with wherever you find yourself was enough. He, incidentally, found himself in Concord, and was thus its proponent. But only because he loved all the Universe.

And, being American, he contrasted our way of life with Europe's to great effect.

Anyway, I know that there is public land in the UK, but not very much, right? Enclosure, etc? I thought one of the few exception in Europe was (I think) Sweden or Norway, where you have the right to camp on anyone's land without asking?

Funnily enough, it's Massachusetts that I find to be claustrophobic compared to Texas. John Graves, the Texan Thoreau, essentially agrees. I actually don't like New England very much at all. But I like how much Thoreau liked it.

My girlfriend and I spent a day at Walden Pond last summer. We were really impressed by how serene it was after all these years. It was completely unscathed by society, exactly as I image Thoreau would have wished it.

Turns out we actually were at Goose Pond. We saw Walden Pond leaving. It had turned into a tourist nightmare.

I bet so. Too bad. Thoreau did have one tangible victory, in the form of the large city parks that now dot our major cities. I have him to thank almost directly for New Orleans' City Park, and the same goes for Boston and New York and Houston too. The big quote I shared above is excerpted from where he makes that argument most cogently. He even names Walden Woods as a good place for a park, lol.

We also have him and his ilk to thank for the entire worldwide system of national parks, which, it has been said, is our best idea. I've been itching to get out to see some more national parks of late, as I have re-read "Wild Fruits."

Also, what's your deal with New England?

"I actually don't like New England very much at all."

I just said lol.

Or do you mean why don't I like it?

Too cold. Too European. Too traditional. Too white. Lol. There are some things to like about it, as with any place, the history, the natives, that sort of thing. But generally it's sort of cramped and cold and elitist. Much like regular England haha.

As with Thoreau though, just because I don't like a place doesn't mean I don't think it's beautiful. Even (especially?) Antarctica, the Empty Quarter, and Siberia are beautiful.

"Too white."

Not surpsiring, since we abolished slavery 100 years before the rest of the country...

There again is one of the good things about NE. The politics. And the artistic tradition you have produced... obviously. (Even Lovecraft has shaped my "love" of Old America)

My point was just to say it's not a place I would ever visit outside of the warm months and would never ever live in, but only because I have no stomach for winter.

The weather I definitely can understand. The heat is the main reason I could never live in the South.

This thread is retarded.

@Thucy

The Scots have rules akin to Norway. In England private land is crossed by countless rights of way that allow you to walk practically anywhere you want. Oakhampton Barracks, where I was often billeted, had a bloody ancient right of way through the middle of it. Do you know how damned annoying it is trying to plan your section's day when you have members of the Birmingham rambler's association taking photos and asking the way to the nearest pub?

So I guess British landowners are something entirely different from owning lanf in the US in that they have a near collective monarchy on the land where as the US has plenty of public land. But even the public land isn't free for squatters. Try camping in a state park or national forest without a camping pass. You can visit and see but it costs to spend the night.

It is funny how easy it is to see the tyranny in other lands

I dunno I think it's just plain to see that the earth is ruled by tyranny. Usually when I say something to the effect of "society man" I mean to indict all society; or at least western society. Rarely am I only talking about America or non-America. Usually it's both.

Anyway, I think his point is that there should simply just be a "right of way" and that private land ownership, though perhaps profitable, is a shame as well.

"Use the land, but own it not." he writes elsewhere.

I'd rather spend a snowy winter in New England cabin or Christmas in a Norman Rockwellian New England town than summer in the deep south.

I'd rather it was eternally spring and summer.

I'd rather spend a snowy winter in the White Mountains than a Mardi Gras weekend in New Orleans, Thucy, and I've done both, so don't pull your cards. New England is like the Old West - it's a giant chunk of national history. It's a trip back to centuries ago.

I've always wanted to go to Vermont or New Hampshire.

Both VT and NH are absolutely beautiful, especially in the fall. I particularly recommend the Kancamagus Highway and surrounding area.

I would agree, Maine also is quite beautiful. My daughter goes to camp there, and I've spend little time myself there.

Haven't spent much time in ME, but I hear it's great if you love the outdoors.

Acadia is probably the most under-attended park in the country considering it compares pretty closely to Yosemite, Yellowstone, and the Grand Canyon in natural beauty.

Hey hey hey when did I say New England wasn't beautiful? I'm a Thoreau fanboy for Christ's sake.

However, I challenge you to look past the party-life of New Orleans and see southern Louisiana for what it is - testament to the beauty of nature. Have you wandered beneath verdant 500 year old oaks draped with moss? That is but a taste of the natural beauty that exists here.

All that unpicked fruit really makes NO a shithole.

Still waiting for my orange juice , Thucy