This game is not stalemated, and fromthe history, it seems it has never been stalemated. Very hard for egypt, but no stalemate.

Also looks like egypt also NMRd twice, did everyone vote for cancel/draw then as well?

Funny thing, this discussion and fighting...
At one point I was going to say that all this argument over discussion of the rules is so very ungunboat like. Isn't the whole point of gunboat to take out the heart of the game of diplomacy by not allowing communication (sorry, I'm showing a bias)? And you guys are trying to convince one another the level of lack of communication by communicating?
A psychologist or chaotician would have a field day with this!! ;)

You're wrong Babak. Autumn 14 is definitely a stalemate.

@Draugnar
One does not have rights without responsibility. In the responsibility section of the rules, it clearly demands that players respect each other. I think we've all agreed that Egypt's method of play is quite "douchey". With this in mind, I think we can all agree that Egypt exhibits a clear lack of respect. There is a reason that respect is mentioned in the Rulebook section of "Help"; it is a vital part of a non-hostile environment that I'm sure the site wishes to maintain. Therefore any player who lacks respect for others should limit his interaction with others (of course I am not in a position of power and therefore my words have no actions to back it up).

Responsibilities and rules are very different. Violating a rule has very clear cut potential penalties that are tempered nu the mods and applied justly
Not fulfilling a responsibility is less clear cut and primarily enforced by the community at large via some kind of ostracism.

Perhaps. I have two responses.
1) Responsibilities was set under the Rulebook section. Therefore one can only assume that it is a rule meant to be followed.
2) Given that unfulfilled responsibility becomes the duty of the community at large, then Bart was fully justified to post such a thread. Bart did not, in his first post, make any claims about the game itself, but only to inform the public about Egypt's lack of respect and therefore responsibility.

But the effect of Bart's post while the game was ongoing would be to try and shame Egypt into drawing. Had Bart waited and then named and shamed Egypt after the game was through, I'd be backing Bart 100% for that is what the forum and the community at large is good for. However, breaking gunboat (a clear cut rule violation) to shame a slimeball (not a rule and not something the mods will enforce) makes his action more severe. Let the punishment fit the crime and don't commit a greater crime by trying to enforce it earlier or alter the outcome,

I would have approached it as "We need a new player and, Egypt, if your reading this, could you please pause while we look for a replacement." Then no one in the community could legitimately claim Bart was trying to affect the outcome of the game by discussing it.

Just in case anyone was wondering who the low-down jerkball was: Babak.

Don't play with Babak, it's the only solution. Keep the environment clean :)

Ivo, on your profile it says the following:
"People to avoid:

Low intelligence and ethical standards:
Babak
Dunecat

Cheaters:
Silverwolf "

Can you explain those three references please?

Hmm, I believe they are rather clear... which word is troubling you :)

Probably Silver Wolf. We know your beef with the first two, and justification aside it's understandable. But I don't think anyone had gotten Silver Wolf for cheating...

Doesn't prove me wrong, does it? :)

I've played enough games with him to know. He builds up other multi's and then they start NMR-ing in his favor. It's hard to prove I guess - and I don't have IPs and other tool to check - but I can always see what the underlying intent was. This is based on about half a dozen games.

He'll be caught one day.

But I don't want to distract the attention from Babak :)

Sorry. I thought my question was pretty clear but if you want to try and be a clever dick then I'll try and explain my question in a more simpleton way.

Why do you have problems with these players?

ie. Why did you reference Babak and Dunecat as having "Low intelligence and ethical standards"?

Why did you reference Silverwolf as a cheater?


Despite what Eden says, I DON'T know about your 'beef' with the first two.

Were those questions asked simply enough or is there a particularly difficult word/s bothering you in them?

Sadly, it still seems they were still phrased too difficultly for you to muster a decent answer.

Please could you explain why you think Dunecat and Babak are unethical players?

Sarg, calm down. He didn't answer within 9 minutes... It's not like he's ignoring you. Give him time.

I'll need to write more and give games as examples to explain Silverwolf. This is not the thread and I don't have the time right now. Wasn't trying to ne clever - I didn't think you'd be intersted in Silverwolf.

@☺ Haha. I was just taking Ivo's and my joke to the limit. No worries :)

Don't post cheating accusations on the forum. Jesus fucking Christ!

Hahaha

Well, actually, noone really did - but my profile is my profile :P

Hahahaha

alright - now that this game is over - I have quite a number of choice words to share myself...

first off - to all those who called me a douche bag without a shred of understanding of this game or who was in it - go eat dirt!!!

second to bartdogg14 - you had ZERO right to do what you did with this thread. I can certainly understand your frustration, but that does not give you the right to f*** with someone on the forum when its an anonymous gunboat game. I seriously considered voting for a draw after the CD, but when I saw this thread there was NO WAY I was going to give you that. period.

third - Here are the arguments I would have made if this was not an on-going/anonymous/gunboat game and I could have responded to these often retarded arguments on this thread:

1- this was an anonymous gunboat game. There is no way to communicate with others to unpause, so I have never gotten, seen, or heard of a gunboat game being paused. the reason is simple, there is no way to find out who else is in the game, if they would unpause or if they would simply sit there and let the game languish. I think when you sign up for an anon gunboat game, you have to accept that there is a high likelihood (higher than normal games) for things like pauses, cancels, and draws NOT to happen.

2. the Greek player did not ask for a pause before he started NMRing, and I personally feel his final set of NMRs and CD was in order to help guilt the other players into canceling the game...

3. earlier in the game, Egypt (ie me) NMRd twice - none of the other players voted for a cancel or draw or pause. not one. in fact, there was a specific phase where the Greek player took quite an advantage from the NMR and personally I think ended up extending his life when he was on the way down.

4. There was NEVER a stalemate line in this game. even Autumn 14, the only season Rome can point to, Bith/Gal/Mil threatened Byz and Mil/Min/Cre threatened Aeg where as the defenses could have to guess to protect one or the other. also - in a gunboat game, if there is NO communication, you can never be sure that the opposing players would be able to counter effectively.

5. The game was far from over, and I have a pretty hard and fast rule that I wont vote for a draw with 'too many' players (unless I am one of the ones on the verge of elimination, then I'll vote for a draw and hope others vote for it too =P) . in this game, Egypt (me) could still pull back from the Greek and Carthegian fronts and try to get Rome to eliminate one or the other for a 3 way rather than a 4 way. Had there NOT been a CD, i would have extended the game even until year 20 if needed to see if such a tactic would work. this tactic does not always work - and sometimes the Roman player will stick to his supports and not get greedy - in which case, 4 turns of them holding their REAL stalemate line would prompt me to vote for the draw and be done with it.

6. If your argument is "this game has gone long enough" then stop playing this game. if need be, a game can extend for 20 or 30 or more years... there is no reason to stop a game mid-way because a few of the folks feel they've had enough fun.

7. I signed up for this game anonymously. I have never played a classic anon gunboat game - I thought it might be fun. I did not create nor do I remember the password for this game.

8. if you can't handle a loss, and you have b***h and moan every time it looks like you are going to lose, then stop playing this game. I certainly have been involved in a lot of gunboat games where a stalemate line was conceded because of NMRs or because some dumbass did not do their part... thats the nature of gunboat... if you dont like it, stop playing it, or go get a written agreement of whatever you think are "fair" with all the players who join before you do.


fourth - I'm not going to go back and re-read all the crap written in this completely bogus and absolutely inappropriate thread... but I will just repeat: this was an ANONYMOUS and GUNBOAT and non-classic game. the regular rules simply do not apply. the attempt to shame me into drawing or canceling was appalling and those of you who tried it should be ashamed of yourself.


oh and one last thing...

Ivo - you are one of the most despicable sore losers I've ever met in any competitive endeavor, so I'm not surprised one bit by your attempt to fish in muddied waters here...

And your profile's accusation was posted to the forum which you then explained why you think SW is a cheat. So you, by explaining, posted the accusation.

I'm glad I brought popcorn to this thread. You girls get nasty.

Really nasty.

three additional points:

1.
Had barddogg written what Draugnar suggested: "We need a new player and, Egypt, if your reading this, could you please pause while we look for a replacement." I would have 100% voted for the draw and in the forums asked a mod to force-unpause eventually.

2.
I genuinely thought, and still think, that even if Greece had stayed in this game and not NMRed I had a solid shot at a solo. the fact that Greece, then Rome NMR'd is not my fault. had they not, I would have continued and still had a shot at a solo - I was still advancing. and the idea that simply because one of them NMRd or CD'd I had to give up on my own earned solo attempt is crazy - or the idea that a player on the verge of a potential solo HAS to accept a cancel or draw because one of his opponents NMRs near the end of a game... same thing.

3.
I feel all those individuals who used insulting, disparaging, and rude adjectives to describe Egypt, owe me an apology for having used such language, and for having done so without considering the details of this game. I have little doubt that these apologies will not be forthcoming, but it is completely rude and uncivilized to insult someone who can't even defend themselves - and to do so without hearing or seeing both sides of the issue.