Oh? Then you are going to have to spell it out rather more clearly because it seems as clear as day that you are supporting racist selection policies at university in order to provide a counter-weight to racism in earlier life.

@Putin33 What do you mean "diversity" doesn't occur "randomly"? The only way I know of to capture as much of the variance as possible in a sample of a population, without taking the entire population, is to sample *randomly*. The maximum diversity achievable without sending everyone to university would be to draft random 18 year-olds from among the whole population (not just applicants.)

Well if in fact African Americans are the minority in terms of top tier applications to schools of higher education, affirmative action is exactly what's needed if you wanted to achieve racial diversity. Given that the majority of the applications to these schools are most likely white, and assuming that this proportion is the same or more skewed towards white individuals when looking at the top 10% of those applications, then the picture referenced in the OP is the direct result of working the numbers and diversifying incoming classes. Whether racial diversity is good or not at a university is another matter. I think It really depends on the specific goals of the institution. But that picture is hardly shocking.

Race is one factor of many, and the point is to ensure access to underrepresented groups. For the same reason that, for example, schools look to recruit whites from Appalachia or Upper Peninsula Michigan, because those regions are underrepresented. I know the British atitude is, well if Old Etonians run everything, that's just the way it is, and if no racial minorities ever gain positions of high influence, well tough luck. But at least there's an acknowledgment in America that not all social groups have the same access to resources in order to succeed. Black Americans scoring well on SATs is a bigger achievement because the resources in black community schools are impoverished compared to majority white public schools.

Put it this way, on one hand you have people solo-ing while fighting off four live opponents, while in the other you have people solo-ing where the game has three CDs. The two victories are not equivalent. Accordingly, acknowledgment of that difference is warranted.

Anyway please explain to me Octavious what your solution to lack of access, if anything. Would it be better for everyone's "feelings" if we just shut the door on black Americans getting into top universities?

I'm getting very tired of conservatives chirping and whining only to tell us to do absolutely nothing. Your defeatism and despondency is insufferable.

"The only way I know of to capture as much of the variance as possible in a sample of a population, without taking the entire population, is to sample *randomly*. "

C'mon Tendmote you know that Harvard doesn't just pick names out of a hat to admit into their freshmen class. Is that what your solution is?

The point is you want a diverse pool of highly qualified applicants. This point should be obvious. You can't just make the selection process random. You want the best and brightest from all sections of American society.

Funny....University of Michigan revised their admission policy over the last couple years. Naturally, there were adjustments in the rate of admissions of various races once students were admitted based upon ability, rather than artificially based upon skin color. Interestingly, the changes for all non-white students *except* blacks were about the same....whereas the drop in enrollment for black students singularly was massive.

Now some would cry racism, say this is a travesty, blah blah blah.

Sorry, what it is, and what it will sadly not be admitted to be honestly by anyone of import, is a shrieking call for a change in the black community. Instead of blaming the institution, or white people or anything else, this is a clear indication that the black community is the problem -- apparently having a 70+% out-of-wedlock birth rate, and where getting and education and being successful will get you labeled an "Uncle Tom", etc is not the best culture to inspire success.

IF this were a "white man is racist" problem, then there drop in enrollment woul dhave been across the board for non-whites....Latinos would have showed the same drop in enrollment as blacks, for example.

So...instead of artificially creating admissions standards to create diversity, maybe some of you Libtard blowhards should start pointing your accusing fingers at corrupt sub-cultures within the country where the traits of success in society are frowned upon, and where behavior and attitudes that are conducive to failure are applauded.

Why don't you fool attack the *source* of the problems for low minority enrollment for once in your life, instead of always looking to blame others, and create artificial outcomes.

You do nothing but a DIS-service to a black man with a bad education to throw him into a college in which he/she is ill-prepared, and far more likely to fail and drop out....now a college drop-out with no degree and massive debt...

Yes Krellin we all know that you want to blame all social ills on black people. We get it. You hate black people. Moving on.

Also if you'd bother to read I did talk about the difficulties in the sub-culture, whereas you want to ignore anything that doesn't lay everything at the feet of the black community. And while most rational people would say that black Americans being shut out of Michigan schools was terrible and needed to be addressed, you celebrate it.

@Putin33 If you accept that there are separate communities (and you must if you believe there are "sections" of American society as you just said), then different communities might have different problems. I don't think Krellin pointing out what he thinks are problems in another community amounts to "hate". Why are you being so summarily dismissive?

He's saying the black community is *the* problem, Tendmote. Read his point. I'm not being dismissive. While you are so unconcerned about the kind of crap Krellin spews out towards African Americans on a regular basis?

Krellin's point of view is a real point of view. I wouldn't want to be the least prepared dude who got into Harvard, so I don't see any of this as anyone's real loss. But I guess Krellin does. I'm not that concerned, because what is Krellin really calling for? Man, real hate is going to be hard to recognize if every frustration is labelled as "hate."

Putin, you rcist fucktard, I didn't celbrate anything, asshole. I simply stated the facts about what happened, and pointed out the utter LACK of open discussion about why black, exclusively, have shown such a huge drop in enrollment while OTHER MINORITIES HAVE NOT.

If this were a racist issue, ALL RACES WOULD SUFFER you stupid fucktard.

I guess Bill Cosby is a racist too, because he's one of the few honest black men out there calling for an honest look at black communities, and calling for a change in that culture.

Putin - I don't have hate for a person based upon their skin color -- there is a distinction between a person, and a corrupt *culture*. You yourself, Putin, are famous for coming on these threads an attacking culture. You despise American culture. You despise "conservative" culture. You despise Religious culture. You point your personal hatred towards all sorts of cultures in this country.

I point my finger at a black culture that is *clearly* producing youth that YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

It is YOU that is complaining about the lack of representation of blacks in the university...and yet if I dare to be honest about WHY they are under-represented....because they are failing at the lower education levels, because they are NOT encouraged in the home to succeed....you say I am hateful?

I'm the lovingest fucking asshole around here, you fucktard. I'm the only person around here that shows enough love towards blacks to point out WHY they are failing...and by addressing the CAUSE...you can fix the outcome.

All you fuciing racist bastards that want to force outcomes, without addressing the cause, are the hateful, bigotted assholes who don't believe they *can* change the cause....so in truth, YOU are the racist, YOU are the hater, because YOU don't think they are capable of changing and becoming elligiblie for university entry on merit. You think they are incapable *bacuase* of the color of their skin to make it without help...and therefore YOU are the racist.

OK...I'm done.

Puttbaby...you may continue with your racist diatribes.....you may continue to tell us how blacks are unable to make it on their own merit. You may continue to tell us that they are incapable of changing their sub-culture to one of success. You may continue in typical Libtard fashion to say that people of color are deficient by fact of their skin color to ever succeed on their own, and therefore white men and white men alone must intervene on their behalf (those poor, stupid darkies, right?) and give them the success that they are too stupid to achieve on their own.

Good job, racist.

Putin33 can't distinguish between an individual and their culture because of his intensely collectivist mentality.

krellin, you are a racist, homophobic, sexist asshole. Not a loving one. Go away.

Egads... did anyone refute Krellin's points in his original post, or just call him names?

tendmote - this is the typical response from the libtard when he has no answers for the pure logic presented -- they attack attack attack.

It's the last defense of these weak-minded, spineless sheep. They gotta keep up the party line, regardless of facts.

Plus, by keeping the minorities oppressed with policies that keep foster de-facto slavery to liberalism, they keep them exactly where they want them: dependent on the white libtard masters for continuous hand-outs.

Putin the Slave-Master....it's his dream.

And mendy his court jester and personal "fluffer"...

MY daughters both play golf and tried out for the high school golf team. Because we struggled financially when the girls were younger and my daughters didn't have the priveledge of private lessons and such when they were younger, and only started palying a few years ago, I thought it wasn't fair.

So, during try-out, I hid in the bushes at every hole, and once they chipped on teh green, I kicked their ball into the hole to lower the score.

Yippee for my daughters! They both made in on Varsity golf!

....

Two months later they were kicked off the team because they sucked. Apparently artificially lowering their golf score during try-outs didn't actually make them better golfers.

Stupid me, huh...

I don't think it's racist to point out that a culture has issues. For example, when we talk about all of the problems that Muslim culture has (shaming women, Sharia Law, etc.), we don't say that it's racist because it isn't a race issue - it's a culture issue.

Or in India. We don't blame the Indian race for the raping of those women. We blame their culture.

So why is it racist to blame black culture?

Or, as Putin is so fond to point out, American culture, which is predominantly a "white european" culture...he has no problem trashing that.

I can't say too much about black culture itself, since I'm not black, don't know many black people, don't listen to rap, or watch BET or anything, so you'd have to ask someone else.

But I know that Asian cultures put a lot of pressure for good grades (ever see the Asian dad meme?) and this can lead to higher work ethic / pressure which leads to good grades. Asian family units are also some of the tightest-knit and dedicated, so this is a plus.

Well Bill Cosby, who is black, grew up in poor black neighborhoods and is very well acquainted with black culture has a lot to say about modern American black culture...and he says it is corrupt and needs to change.

I'd be a racist to say that Bill Cosby is wrong about his own culture.

Krellin looks for every excuse to bash black people, that's the point. Chaqa, if you'd have paid attention, I also brought up cultural problems. It isn't racist to point these out. It is racist to behave as Krellin does, blaming every single problem on the black community, as he has routinely done since he has begun posting in the forum.

This forum is indicative of the problems of mono-culture.

Putin looks for every opportunity to lie about what I have said, misrepresent my assertions, and he consistently fails to actually address anything I say, instead choosingto attack me personally, because he can not offer any defense for his own racist beliefs.

Say it, Puttybaby...tell me Bill Cosby is a racist because he directly criticizes black culture....I'm simply repeating what Bill Cosby has said...

Tell me again, Puttybaby, how no black person is capable of making it on their own without big white man's help. Tell me how blacks, by the very fact of their flesh tone, are incapable of competing on equal intellectual standards. It makes me laugh at you every time you tell us how the poor dark people are inferior to whites.