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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Cachimbo (1181 D)
21 Nov 11 UTC
To Mute or To Unmute Dip33, that is the question!
Yes, this is yet another poll surrounding the Dip33 phenomenon. I've had him muted for a while now, but it looks as though I might be missing out. Should I keep him muted or unmute the kid? Let me know in this latest "+1 Webdip Poll"
87 replies
Open
Oskar (100 D(S))
20 Nov 11 UTC
2-Day Phase, WTA
Bet 150

Anyone interested? PM for link and PW.
4 replies
Open
ezpickins (113 D)
21 Nov 11 UTC
Larger Bet Game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=72852
Anonymous, 50 (d) 1.5 Day Phases
2 replies
Open
Sicarius (673 D)
16 Nov 11 UTC
Wriggling In the Crushing Grip of Reason
Or: one lame pathetic dickwad asshole (me) faces utter humiliation at the hands of a far superior intellect
52 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
04 Sep 11 UTC
Obama's Green Jobs Fiasco
Weren't the Green Jobs that the Obama administration subsidized with hundreds of billions of dollars supposed to lead job growth? What happened to that? Here is what happened.
52 replies
Open
Orerilow (100 D)
21 Nov 11 UTC
World War on 17 player for new players.
Hallo. This game create russian new players. We want play with foreigners now. Please join in this game.
2 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
21 Nov 11 UTC
really useful RFC
i dind't know people were funny back in '78 but it turns out they had their laughs...

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc748
0 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
21 Nov 11 UTC
Randall does it again
Typos aside, another great effort from xkcd
http://xkcd.com/980/
2 replies
Open
BuglerV (0 DX)
21 Nov 11 UTC
World War. 10 D. 12 Hours.
ID=72833
Come all.
1 reply
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Nov 11 UTC
Wall Street vs Tahir Square
What are the similarities between the Occupy movement's protests and the Egyptian democracy protests?
26 replies
Open
Ges (292 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
Passworded 50 ante full-press classic (1-day)
gameID=72744
Please send me a message if interested. All experience levels welcome, as long as you keep up with orders and enjoy diplomatic chat.
2 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
17 Nov 11 UTC
Occupy General Motors
The idiots in the Occupy movement who didn't learn enough spending tens of thousands of dollars on worthless degrees from professors who are too ignorant of the real world to create a job for a hooker on a marine base should Occupy General Motors.
3 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 DX)
21 Nov 11 UTC
Obama's Despicable Inability to Lead
Whenever the nation need's leadership the President is supposed to provide it. Disappointingly the United States did not elect a leader in 2008 with tragic consequences for the country, and the world at large really.

6 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
21 Nov 11 UTC
Please mute this thread!
Because its hilarious!
6 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
21 Nov 11 UTC
WebDiplomacy Poll: Favorite Country to Play
+1 to vote for your favorite country to play.
34 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
21 Nov 11 UTC
WebDip Poll: Is Diplomat33 an attention whore?
You know how to do it.
23 replies
Open
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
Holidays that are worthwhile?
Are there any?

The only two holidays I celebrate with great vim and gusto aren't really celebrated here. May 1 & May 9.
30 replies
Open
FatherSnitch (476 D(B))
21 Nov 11 UTC
Argentina wanted
Decent position, with a build in hand if you join within the next 11 hours!

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=71196
1 reply
Open
I'm new
how do you play in a game?
and who wants to play? :D
3 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
21 Nov 11 UTC
WebDiplomacy.net Poll: Favorite Country to Play
+1 to vote for your favorite country to play.
48 replies
Open
yebellz (729 D(G))
16 Nov 11 UTC
WebDip Poll: WTA or PPSC
+1 either of the first two replies to this thread to vote for your preference
27 replies
Open
Maniac (184 D(B))
19 Nov 11 UTC
Xmas present for my wife
I need help
35 replies
Open
mr.crispy (0 DX)
21 Nov 11 UTC
Music
Anybody in here a Michael Buble fan? or do you think he's a major copy? in fact, what kind of music do you like? I'm kind of out of music, and im tired of hearing the same things over and over again.
15 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
19 Nov 11 UTC
kindle fire
So, I'm trying out my friend's fire. I like the size much more than the ipad, but I still find the keyboard is too large to comfortably type on for a long time. If I traveled a lot, I think it would be cool for reading and watching video. So, thoughts on tablets?
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Geofram's father was killed by a paperback. He will not rest until they are all dead.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
The big problem with ereaders is they're going to be filled with obnoxious advertising in no time. Whereas once we could read without commercials in our faces, now ads will hit us everywhere.
ulytau (541 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
And you base that assumption on what grounds? That will happen for those who want full functionality for the lowest price but if all you do on your e-reader is reading books like me, with disabled Wi-Fi, there's not even any channel through which the ads could reach me. Once one goes online, it's the same as with any electronic device regarding ads with the exception that there aren't yet any browser plug-ins that block stuff for e-readers browsers I tried.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
What's to prevent ereader providers from lacing ebooks with barrels of ads? I wouldn't be surprised if every book comes to look like the New Yorker magazine (which is 95% ads, 5% text, or so it seems).

I mean as it is, ads have filtered into movies and television shows, and now we have to sit through ads when waiting for video clips online. I don't hold much hope for advertisers being kept at bay once one or two readers gain a firm monopoly on the product.
spyman (424 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
I have never seen an ad in an ebook. The revenue is made from selling the books. There will always be a market for people who are happy to pay not to have ads. The cheapest Kindle does not show ads while you are reading the book, but rather when it goes to sleep, as a screensaver.
Maybe someone might try to market books with ads, either free or for a cheaper price. If there is a market for that good luck to them. Let the consumer decide. Free iPhone apps often have ads, but usually you can pay to get the version without ads.
You know you make can your ebooks? There is free software available, so even if books did ads there would always be ways to remove the ads.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
"What's to prevent ereader providers from lacing ebooks with barrels of ads? "

What's to prevent a paperback from having ads in it?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
This is just silly, actually.

Most ebooks are sold at around a 10% discount from books. But, ebooks are pretty much free to sell, so they are making much more money per ebook than per book. They don't need to physically produce anything and the server requirements for hosting books is very small. If anything, they should subsidize real books with ads.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
@Draug

Over the last 50 years or so, the price of books has gone up. My father's copy of Dune cost $1.25 (around $4.71 if adjusted). It currently costs $9.99.

The price of books is increasing.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
"But, ebooks are pretty much free to sell, so they are making much more money per ebook than per book. They don't need to physically produce anything and the server requirements for hosting books is very small. If anything, they should subsidize real books with ads."

Book publishers aren't and have never been monopolized like these platforms are.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
What do you mean?
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703727804576012041836406736.html
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
Meaning how many ereader companies are there? How many book publishers are there?
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
I have no idea how many publishers there are: a lot.

I can think of 4 ereader companies. Not sure what your point is, though.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
The less competition, the less "consumer choice" can put this thing in check. Plus as the article points out, ebooks provide new conditions that regular books did not have.

"or starters, most books sell only a few hundred thousand copies, not enough to interest most advertisers. And many author contracts say the writer has to approve any ads.
The lifespan of books, meanwhile, is such that an ad that appears when it first was published could be irrelevant years later. But digital books can address that problem by inserting ads that are appropriate for when a person accesses the book and targeted to the reader's interests. Some companies also are working to sell space across a number of books to entice marketers to purchase ads."
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
Yeah, so some people are thinking about putting ads in books. If that means the book is free or almost free, maybe people would like that. Why is it a problem? I don't foresee ads being forced on users.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
"Forced". That's the great excalibur used by the market to make the world more annoying. Oh, but it wasn't "forced". I had a "choice" between reading ad filled books or not reading at all. See? Choice. Just like I had a "choice" between working for crap pay or starving.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
The ereader market is new. As it grows, more companies will make ereaders. Still don't understand what your problem is in that regard.


I'm still not concerned about ads. My ereader doesn't even get wifi and there are still a lot of new ones that don't. There's no way for them to even update the ads if they had them. Plus, there are tons of sites that you can get ebooks from, all of which would probably not have ads in them.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
What are you talking about? I'm saying I think there were always be ad-free versions of books, even if ad-supported books become popular.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
"As it grows, more companies will make ereaders."

Just like the number of mp3 player manufacturers right? Instead we've gone from a system with innumerable record companies producing CDs to a couple of mp3 manufacturers like Apple and iTunes.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
Or rather one mp3 manufacturer. Although I think Microsoft has some crap version of an ipod.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
You have no idea what you are talking about.

The same record company publishing CDs are still the same companies publishing mp3s. Sony used to make a walkman for CDs, now Apple makes the ipod for mp3s. Where's the difference in that? You are making a completely nonsensical argument showing a complete lack of understanding of that technology.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
Show me where Sony had the equivalent of itunes. And explain to me why itunes has faced anti-trust lawsuits.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
And doesn't the walkman story contradict your point about how there's going to be a proliferation of ereaders? You would think this proliferation would have occurred already.
Draugnar (0 DX)
20 Nov 11 UTC
Ad supported books exist. They are called magazines. And I don't know who abgemacht is talking too. Must be someone I have muted.

As far as the Kindle, I thought the ads appeared at the bottom while you were reading. If I was wrong, mea culpa.

There are two additional aspects to books I like that Kindle doesn't provide...

One: being able to visually see my progress and quick scan to see where a chapoter ends to help with my late night reading. I know I can get a digital visual, but I am looking at my copy of Carte Blanche over on the table and thinking "Hmmm... 2/3rds done, maybe I should read another couple of chapters".

Two: lending (or even giving) *any* book I own to a friend. I know books can be lent for 14 days, but it is restricted to 14 days *and* only certain books can be lent. It's up to the publisher to decide what your rights are with your books. You bought them, but the publisher gets to say what you can do with them? Even thought it isn't against the law to share a book? I think "fair use" covers giving and lending just fine. So they should be able to copy preotect a book, but lending/gifting should not be limited beyond once it is lent or gifted, the original person doesn't have access to it.

I could see a market for "used" ebooks, but the publishers have decided they want shit loads of money so if you want the book for your library you are forced to go to the publisher who sends a copy to you that costs them nothing but a little cheap storage space and bandwidth yetr rakes in the cash.

By the way, the $10 paperback claim is bogus. First because the typical paperback is under $8 and second because you can typically buy them cheaper that list. But you can't buy ebooks cheaper than list. I already showed Brave New World (because it had been mentioned in the thread) could be had new for cheaper than the ebook plus it had a really cheap (less than half the ebook price) used price.

On the plus side for ereaders is reading in the dark. If I use a booklight in bed, it still bothers my wife. In fact, she'd just as soon I turn on the nightstand light as it is muted and my body blocks the light. A backlit ereader might not.bother her.

And the ereaders do have a large library of free books from the public domain that I would have to buy, if I could find them, to read in paperback form. Of course, I have most of those free books in my library in hardcover already.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
So Draugnar is pretending to mute me again, *yawn*.
spyman (424 D(G))
20 Nov 11 UTC
Putin there are still lots of mp3 manufacturers, most of them no name brands. Plus don't forget that every phone is also an mp3 player these days. There is no monopoly.

How many mp3 manufacturers would there be under a communist government?

Would we even have ebooks under commuinism? After all when a new technology is arrives on the market it is usually very expensive, as the Kindle was initially. As a product gains popularity and more units are manufactured economies of scale come into play and the unit cost drops. Furthermore the competitive market makes the
cost to the consumer fall even further.

But under communism why would the government decide to make what would surely seem too expensive a luxury. Furthermore there would be bureaucrats who would have to give the go ahead, and many of these would not see the advantage, citing many of the same reasons that people who are not into ebooks yet have given in this thread. Reasons which are understandable too.

And then even if the government decided to give the new product the green light, how many manufacturers would there be? How much choice would the consumer have?

It wouldn't get off the ground in the first place. It would be too expensive for most people. There would be no choice. As far as monopolies are concerned there would be the ultimate monopoly - the government manufacturer.
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
"There is no monopoly."

Really, so Apple doesn't control 75% of the mp3 market, even though it admits it does? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2009/09/09/ipod_market_share_at_73_8_percent_225_million_ipods_sold_more_games_for_touch_than_psp_nds_apple
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/02/16/does-apple-have-a-monopoly/

What counts as a monopoly to you? Why was Apple investigated for anti-trust due to its monopolistic control of this business?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-22/apple-s-jobs-must-answer-questions-in-itunes-antitrust-dispute.html

"How many mp3 manufacturers would there be under a communist government?"

How is that relevant? Must every discussion devolve into inquisitions about communism? Monopoly is different under communism, because firms are incentivized by profits to produce. Products are therefore, if anything, severely undervalued in terms of price. Which is why when capitalism was restored prices soared. So your question falls flat, really, if you're trying to turn the tables here.

"Would we even have ebooks under commuinism? After all when a new technology is arrives on the market it is usually very expensive, as the Kindle was initially. As a product gains popularity and more units are manufactured economies of scale come into play and the unit cost drops. Furthermore the competitive market makes the
cost to the consumer fall even further."

Except there is no competitive market with this product, so that really doesn't apply. And I fail to see what this has anything to do with anything we've been talking about. We weren't talking about price. We were talking about how ads are already being filtered into ebooks and how ebook readers are going to facilitate monopoly control over books, and it's going to be harder for your "consumer choice" narrative work once books are monopolized. And your price lowering doesn't always actually occur. It tends to happen with electronic goods but many other markets seem to be suffering from persistent price increases, like healthcare (scanning) equipment.

"But under communism why would the government decide to make what would surely seem too expensive a luxury."

And? I don't see what the punch-line here is. That at least you have mp3s? Is there some kind of moral imperative to have mp3 players? Are people's lives somehow irrevocably changed for the better with this technology that seems to be of inferior quality to records? If your argument is that the market innovates better than authoritatively structured economies, I beg to differ. Most of your best innovations came as a result of military imperatives, like the internet and computer, for example. That had nothing to do with the market. The Soviets outpaced the west, despite inferior resources, in space, military technology and certain aspects of medical technology. There is nothing intrinsically more innovative about markets. In fact, as we've seen with the green businesses, the government in market economies has to heavily subsidize these ventures for them to have any shot at getting off the ground. If the start-up costs are too high, the market is going to do it. Planned economies do not have this difficulty.

" There would be no choice. As far as monopolies are concerned there would be the ultimate monopoly - the government manufacturer."

Which is of a fundamentally different quality than a for-profit monopoly that arbitrarily sets prices to squeeze the most profit out of people, instead of a government monopoly that in many cases operates at a loss, if anything.

You're comparing apples to oranges, and manufacturing a lot of red herrings here while not really addressing the main point.


Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
*not incentivized by profits
Putin33 (111 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
*market isn't going to do it.
spyman (424 D(G))
21 Nov 11 UTC
Putin: "Really, so Apple doesn't control 75% of the mp3 market, even though it admits it does?"

That statistic does not include mobile phones. Besides even if you still want another mp3 player you can still buy one. Remember we are talking about your claim that more companies will NOT enter the ereader market, and your assertion that there "are just a couple of mp3 manufacturers".

Putin: "How is that relevant? Must every discussion devolve into inquisitions about communism? "

Well yes. Since your commentary is largely about the consequences of capitalism it makes sense to consider whether there is a viable alternative.

But if you want to just stick to discussion of ads in e-readers. Fine. The conversation has run its course. Currently Amazon books do not have adds, and nor do Barnes and Noble.
Will there be in the future. Yes it will probably be a choice.

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162 replies
Kiselina (161 D)
21 Nov 11 UTC
Russian speaks game.
Для всех, кому надоело все время переводить свои мысли на английский.
gameID=72573
0 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
21 Nov 11 UTC
new thread
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=72766
47 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
20 Nov 11 UTC
French players? Joueurs francais?
Hey all,
Are there any French-speaking diplomacy fans out there? I believe for my French friends this could be interesting.
Redhouse
7 replies
Open
rokakoma (19138 D)
21 Nov 11 UTC
multiaccounting
14 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
20 Nov 11 UTC
Plus one this thread!
...Or mute it, that is your choice. Have fun! It should be interesting to see in which direction does this thread go...
15 replies
Open
Rommeltastic (1111 D(B))
21 Nov 11 UTC
1+1+1x0=?
1+1+1x0=?
8 replies
Open
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