@Jack Klein: "All of those things are subjective...And I for one don't care. You've proven to be a ideological purist uninterested in actual solutions or compromise."

PUHHHHH-LEASE!!! I'm making *no* specific comments on any stance in this thread, but for you, Jack and friends, to try to argue against someone else on the grounds that they are narrow-minded ideologues makes you a fucking hypocrite of the worst kind! ALL of you on this thread that are saying the same thing OVER and OVER again are ideologues. Jack - you are as staunchly liberal and single-minded as they come. How dare you complain that somebody else actually has a belief system that he sticks to! You throw out your bogus, mani[ulated statistics, and your opponent throws out his bogus, manipulated stats. Big fucking deal! ANYONE can cherry-pick numbers to prove a cause.

But for you to dismiss someone for having ideology.....give me a fucking break. GOD you are an asshole.

The Republicans want to purposely tank our economy to win elections. They want to refuse to raise the debt ceiling and ruin our credit rating for political purposes. They haven't compromised on a damn thing. Reagan was a tax raiser who intentionally caused a recession in order to bring down inflation. Reagan had record unemployment. Our national debt skyrocketed under his misrule. Reagan's entire tenure was tarnished by corruption scandal after corruption scandal. Reagan was a buffoon who thought you could recall nuclear missiles fired from subs. He didn't realize the Soviet missile arsenal was almost exclusively land based. He let US personnel get blown up on 3 separate occasions in Lebanon even after US marines were warned that the barracks was insecure. CIA manuals were also distributed to Contras instructing them on how to hire criminals to engage in false flag attacks and engage in assassinations.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954440,00.html

Haaaaaaa ha ha ha ha!!!! Yeah....because Democrats never do/don't do things for Political gain. Hmmm...all the Bush wars were bad, were un-winnable, etc....until Barack Obama became President, and war protestors vanished from society, and not only did Obama FOLLOW the Bush Doctrine/Bush Wars...but he now has us in MORE wars.

yeah....Democrats NEVER play election politics with policy.

Oh....and Putin is rational, too, if you buy in to my last statement...

Krellin, as per usual you miss the point.

Democracy, particularly in a situation where different parties control different branches, requires negotiation, compromise, and the willingness to give something to get something.

It appears that Speaker Boehner was willing to negotiate a far ranging deal on all topics before the hardcore Tea Party inspired members of the House had a shitfit that made him fear for his job.

But unless you have the Presidency, the House, and a supermajority in the Senate, you don't get to do exactly what you want... you have to compromise. And the Republicans have the House, and that is it. And if they think they can just hold their breath like a three year old and get what they want by yelling, they're in a dream world.

I'm actually really glad that the President has put all these options on the table and been so willing to strike a big deal... its proven to anybody but the ideological true believers that the Republican/Tea Party people have no desire to compromise or to actually try to make our democracy work(such as it is).

And TC: I'm not going on about how great Obama is and how bad Reagan was. I'm pointing out how you don't have any set of strong principles other than "I don't like the people that I don't like!"... because you hate Obama for doing something your idol did as well. I didn't have any doubt you were a poorly thought out caricature, but its good that you revealed it to the few who hadn't seen it already.

HAAA HA HA HA!!! I have to laugh out loud again! Putin NOW claims that reagan was a TAX RAISER, even though *everyone* so far on this thread has agreed that he cut taxes. AND, every modern day politician would agree to that, too. What Putin is LYING to you about is this: Reagan LOWERED TAXES....which resulted in an **ECONOMIC BOOM*** which meant more tax payers, which meant that, with lower taxes, the government collected MORE tax revenue. Thus, technically, his statement is correct. But, if Putin had half an ounce of integrity, he would admit that he was spinning the facts. He *WANTS* people to believe that Reagan raised tax RATES....even though he knows that is a lie. But...Putin lies about mos things. After all, he is a liberal.

@ JACK.....how could I miss the piont? I ***QUOTED YOU*** you fucking dumbass!

Democrats voted for the Iraq war. What's the last thing Republicans ever voted for that was proposed by the President? Heck we have a record low number (42%) of judicial appointments confirmed because virtually every single one is filibustered. We don't even have a confirmed head of the ATF.

And Jack....please, let's stop being an ignorant fucking ass. This notion that ONLY the Republicans are sticking to their principles as juvenile. Republicans have stated that they will not raise taxes. They stand on Principle. Obama and the Democrats have stated that they will not do anything unless is includes TAX INCREASES.

So fuck you! BOTH sides are standing on Principle, you lying jack ass! I'm so tired of people like you that don't have an ounce of integrity, that can never admit that they are wrong. BOTH SIDES are blatantly political. Stop trying to pretend that Obama is some sort of holy fucking Messiah who can do no wrong, you dumb ass, because NOBODY believe that except for pure ideologues, which you claim to hate...and yet which you ARE. Dumb ass...

Comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it. But I'm sure I can look forward to more capitalization and false outrage. Your antics are getting stale, Krellin. I need more obvious reading comprehension failures and slander. Try to channel mapleleaf!

I'm really not sure who is sillier, TC, or Krellin. Eh, its a toss up.

Don't worry, I'm actually figuring there are enough adults left in the Senate and the House to do something to keep this country from defaulting on its debt.

Like I said, if nothing else, this has proved to the few that doubted it that the Tea Party inspired individuals are incapable of actually governing. Screaming from the sidelines? Sure. But governing actually requires you to have solutions... and its clear they don't have any practical ones.

Last thing Republicans voted for that the President signed? The Bush "Tax Cuts"....you know...when Obama admitted that in these terrible economic times we couldn't raise taxes. Moron. And....let's be clear (Bamster's favorite line) the Democrats ONLY voted for the authorization to go to war when the general public was for it. The ability of Democrats to have a principled stance on the war only lasted as long as the polling numbers on the war stayed over 50%....

Actually, the thing that most Democrats were standing on was that they're not willing to do anything that involves cutting entitlements.

And the President basically disregarded that and put them on the table for negotiation.

In return, he has gotten basically no cooperation. So next time, try actually learning something before you come here. Ignorance is a pretty nasty perfume.

Dear Krellin,

Please look up the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, the Highway Revenue Act of 1982, the raising of Social security taxes in 1983, the Deficit Reduction Act of 1984, and the Tax Reform Act of 1986 (largest increase on corporate taxes in history).

Oh and the Budget Reconciliations of 1985 and 1987 also raised taxes.

Jack, your lame lawyerly ways became stale long ago....you know, only presenting the concept that support your cause instead of having the personal integrity to afmit that you are wrong every now and then. I, for example, *fully* admit that Republicans are acting on principle, as are the Democrats. Do you have enough integrity to admit the same? Or will you be such a political cheer leader that you will claim otherwise? (Oh...wait....you have already made your claim....and you lose).

As far as "Adults"....oh, you mean like Obama, who is such a man-child that he frequently gets on TV and scolds people, even though he has yet to submit a budget that matches the rhetoric he spews on TV? Oh yes...he submitted a budget...but it doesn't include the "cuts" he proposed today. He hasn't resubmitted a budget as the talks go on. His party doesn't even agree with his ideas (Pelosi has said No Way to his revisions to entitlement programs...) But Obama whines and complains and uses the bully pulpit to insult others, but never to advance a *specific* agenda.

Oh...and by the way....THANK YOU for acknowledging my use of CAPITAL LETTERS. I KNOW that the use of them really upsets the emotionally challenged, like you. Moron.

As far as your idiotic and childish insult to the Tea Party....HAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA!!! (like that boisterous all-caps laughing???) Bury your head in the sand and pretend the Tea Party is incapable. Funny...because if you want to talk about incapable, let's talk about a democrat party that had the White House, the Senate and the Congress for 2 years, and yet couldn't pass a budget. Talk about incapable dereliction of duty....look it up in the definition...you will see Obama/Reid/Pelosi.

can we all agree that both political parties are just that political parties so most of what they do is for political reasons but in genral once they get into office they do what they think is right

So the best "compromise" you can come up with is the Republicans ramming the Bush tax cuts down Obama's throat during the lame duck session? I rest my case. The only reason Obama signed that was because of other provisions attached to it, including extensions of unemployment benefits. Thanks for demonstrating that Obama shows maturity and leadership which your party completely lacks.

@Putin....uh....dumbass. We are not talking about 1982, 1984 or 1986. That has nothing to do with today's problems. Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Behnoer, etc were not the leaders in the 80's . Be enough of a man to look at TODAY'S problems, instead of looking at issues from over 20 years ago to make your point about the topic...and the topic is Obama's failure of leadership.

Moron.

"can we all agree that both political parties are just that political parties so most of what they do is for political reasons but in genral once they get into office they do what they think is right"

No. Republicans have one motive and one motive only - win elections. They will sabotage the country in order to win elections.

@Jack...the topic is Obama's failure to lead. If he put entitlements on the table without his own party's support, then he FAILED TO LEAD.

"@Putin....uh....dumbass. We are not talking about 1982, 1984 or 1986. That has nothing to do with today's problems. Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Behnoer, etc were not the leaders in the 80's . Be enough of a man to look at TODAY'S problems, instead of looking at issues from over 20 years ago to make your point about the topic...and the topic is Obama's failure of leadership.

Moron."

Hey doofus, you said Reagan didn't raise taxes. I gave you half a dozen examples of him raising taxes. Admit you were wrong and shut up.

Putin....yes...you are right. Republicans ONLY want win elections. And to do so....they secretly want to DESTROY the country, want old people to die and want children to starve! Haaaa ha ha ha! And the American people are so fucking stupid that they voted Republicans into office OVERWHELMINGLY in the last election!!!! Haa ha ha!!!

And Democrats, on the other hand, ONLY want to lose elections, and ALL of their policy decisions are based upon losing elections.


Do you realize what a fucking moron you sound like, Putin? *Nobody* buys into your brand on insanity.

Moron.

"Putin....yes...you are right. Republicans ONLY want win elections. And to do so....they secretly want to DESTROY the country, want old people to die and want children to starve! Haaaa ha ha ha! And the American people are so fucking stupid that they voted Republicans into office OVERWHELMINGLY in the last election!!!! Haa ha ha!!!"

Yep.

@Putin....how are the Bush tx cuts a "compromise" when OBAMA SAID THEY WERE NECESSARY? i'M USING CAPS HERE BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IGNORANT FUCK AND WON'T READ SOMETHING WITHOUT IT BEING IN CAPS, WHICH SEEMS TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION.

OBAMA SAID IT WOULD BE **BAD** TO RAISE TAXES IN THIS ECONOMY, AND SO HE OPENLY STATED THAT WE NEEDED THE BUSH TAX CUTS. THEREFORE, IT IS *****NOT***** A COMPROMISE.


MORON.

Krellin, the reason I've always run rings around you in discussion is because I do argue like a lawyer.

You know, with facts and figures. Its amazing what you can do with those!

Maybe you should try it, because its pretty obvious from your response that you haven't been actually reading this discussion. You make no real points, you make very little sense, and your only tactic is the ad hominem attack.

I might add that I am in no way shocked by this. The next coherent argument that Krellin puts forth will be his first.

As a final note, I just remembered we can squelch people on this site now. So if I never respond to Krellin, its because I'm no longer interested in reading his scribblings. Happy day!

@aPutin....if you think Reagan raised taxes, and you like raising taxes, then you ought to man up and state that you love Reagan.

You are a Moron.

@ Jack....yeah, lawyers like you argued that Anthony killed her kid, too. Government lawyers, that is. You know...government loving lawyers, like you. FAIL.

Funny, though, I have yet to EVER see you run around me *ever*. I see you lie and decieve. I see you spin facts and change your opinion on the fly. I see you make false statements as needed to support your claim. But run circles around anything? Never seen it.

And...like a typical liberal, Jack Klein realizes that he has NO argument, he insults me, and then quites. Take your marbles and go home, little boy. Nobody believes your lies.

*sigh* Putin im not takeing krellin's side but you talk about comprimise but i offer offered one between the people aurgueing here and you stampted a big red no on it

"And the American people are so fucking stupid that they voted Republicans into office OVERWHELMINGLY in the last election!!!!"

And it's times like those I'm glad to live in Australia.

Up here, in Canada, we think that Obama is a stupid nigger.

I have a comprimise: All the left-wingers leave USA and go to a country with their favourite political ideals, and all the conservatives can stay behind and run the country into the ground. Problem solved.