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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Panthers (470 D)
13 Aug 10 UTC
bob_rymple
Thanks for the pause in our live game! Could you please unpause now? THanks!
2 replies
Open
Conservative Man (100 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
Mutualism
http://www.mutualist.org/id23.html
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TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
“@Ghostmaker: I admitted I'm most likely wrong. See above. Although that contradiction demonstrates the problems with capitalism. I have the right to make money. So does everybody else. I also have the right to not lose money. So does everybody else. Those rights are obviously contradictive, because if someone is making money, someone else is losing it. Money doesn't grow on trees.”

This argument is flawed. There is no right to make money under capitalism, nor a right not to lose money. There is the right to try to make money, and the right to try not to lose money, but no inherent right to succeed.

There is a right to pursue happiness, but no right to happiness.

There is a right to negative liberties- freedom to take actions (that don’t infringe on other people’s rights) but no right to positive liberties- a freedom to take consequences, products, goods.

So you see, the contradiction comes from your misunderstanding of rights under capitalism

Finally, don’t get so hung up over money. Sure, the total amount of money stays the same, or when it changes, it reduces the value of each unit of money to adjust, but you can’t eat money, you can’t sleep on money, you can’t drive to work in money, so ultimately, money is meaningless. What matters is the material wealth that can be acquired through working, and that does grow on trees.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
"Since you guys seem allergic to convincing me I'm wrong, I went out and convinced myself. I now believe in what I call socialist minarchism. It's like normal minarchism (i.e. what Ghost believes) but it's socialist instead of capitalist"

Minarchism is the belief that government should exist to provide against infringement of human rights. Against crimes against the person and against the person's property, including theft by deception, fraud and breaking of contract.

This is necessarily not a socialist doctrine.
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Aug 10 UTC


Ok, here's a better question: why are you sharing this with us?

We all have beliefs; most of us don't feel a need to trumpet them. What is your goal?

If you're looking for feedback, most of the feedback you're getting can br be summarize by 'not well thought out' - as in, you say the words but don't seem to understand what they mean.

If you seek debate, your ability to defend your ideas is... lacking. You seem unaware of the flaws that people see in your ideas and rarely have an effective comeback

So why do you continue to advance ideas you don't understand and cannot defend?
@Ghost: My socialist minarchism does what you describe, except it also limits capitalism.
@Stratagos: 1) I like debating. 2) I want to get more people to believe what I believe.
"You seem unaware of the flaws that people see in your ideas and rarely have an effective comeback" It seems to me that you guys are the ones with ineffective comebacks. You say the same arguments over and over after I have shot them down.
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Aug 10 UTC


Please supply an example of an idea you have shot down
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Aug 10 UTC


And you don't even grok the words you say; why would you try to convince people of them?
@Stratagos: The idea that there wouldn't be roads in anarchy. Though I will say again, I am not an anarchist anymore. And what was grok supposed to be?
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
""You seem unaware of the flaws that people see in your ideas and rarely have an effective comeback" It seems to me that you guys are the ones with ineffective comebacks. You say the same arguments over and over after I have shot them down."

This is the problem. You don't realise what you say is factually wrong (e.g. beavers aren't sentient)

Though I have yet to read more than extracts from it myself, I am told that Peter Schiff's "How an Economy Grows and Why It Crashes: Two Tales of the Economy" is a clear, simple explanation of a free-market view of economics. I sincerely recommend that you read it, since you don't yet properly understand the market.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
grok, I suspect, was meant to be grok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok
@Ghost: I doesn't matter whether or not I understand the market; I feel that Capitalism is exploitive and I don't want anything to do with it. Though I still will read that book if it makes you happy.
Wow, that is the weirdest word ever. But how don't I "grok" the words I say?
Also, you have admitted that with capitalism, when people make money, others lose it. How the hell is that a good thing?
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Aug 10 UTC


No one says you have to have anything to do with it (although I'd love to know what socialist principle got you internet access) - feel free to go hunt and gather in a forest somewhere. But you're going to end up being very hungry otherwise, because unless you choose to work you will starve. Like or dislike has nothing to do with it - the people around you are capitalistic, are generally pretty happy with the system, and have no obligation to feed you just because you Don't Like
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
"@Ghost: I doesn't matter whether or not I understand the market; I feel that Capitalism is exploitive and I don't want anything to do with it. Though I still will read that book if it makes you happy."

If that is your position, if "I feel" is the measure of your opinions, not "I think", "I deduce", "I measure", "I calculate", then it isn't worth talking to you.

Do you "feel" that the earth is flat, and so you don't want to bother reading about Copernicus' heliocentric explanation of the solar system?

Do you "feel" that heavier objects fall faster, so you don't need to listen to the findings of Galileo?

Do you feel everything that you consider to be true? Is it just by "feeling" that webdiplomacy.net might be a site worth visiting that you ended up here? Or did you use a search engine, designed to find desirable sites through meticulous work, and use that as evidence? Did you look up wikipedia perhaps, and use that as evidence that this address might direct you to the right place?

When you choose a computer, do you just "feel" that it will be good, or do you study the specifications of it?

"Feeling" that capitalism is exploitative without understanding the processes at work is just justifying ignorance with ignorance, and it is in no way impressive to anyone.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
"Also, you have admitted that with capitalism, when people make money, others lose it. How the hell is that a good thing?"

They don't loose it, they spend it. They make use of it. Sit on your money if you like, but I am going to spend it.

(Apologies for block caps, but I've already said this before)

MONEY IS NOT IMPORTANT. MONEY IS NOT THE MEASURE.

IT IS WEALTH- POSSESSIONS- THAT MATTER, NOT BITS OF PAPER OR METAL. I AM BETTER OFF AFTER TRADING A COIN FOR A LOAF OF BREAD, AND SO IS THE BAKER
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Aug 10 UTC


Unless, you know, the coin gives off anti-bread rays.

Just saying
@Ghost: Go here: http://toddanthonydirect.typepad.com/the_bullshit_observer/2009/10/why-capitalism-doesnt-work.html
stratagos (3269 D(S))
11 Aug 10 UTC


Personally, I'm not reading any of your links any longer. I feel socialism is exploitative and I want nothing to do with it.
strat, go be witty on the rage thread :P
Draugnar (0 DX)
11 Aug 10 UTC
@CM - how you define a word is not necessarily the real meaning of the word.
...wait, socialist minarchism?

I don't mean to be *another* person to deal with, unless you don't mind... but how does that work?
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
11 Aug 10 UTC
@ CM: "WHAT THE FUCK MORE DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FROM ME!!!!I have admitted I was wrong about anarchy. I have switched to what I believe is a less contoversial political philosophy. So I ask again, what more do you want from me?"

Frankly, I want you to:

1. Calm down, and
2. Be quiet.


@Ghostmaker: "Minarchism is the belief that government should exist to provide against infringement of human rights. Against crimes against the person and against the person's property, including theft by deception, fraud and breaking of contract.

This is necessarily not a socialist doctrine."

I agree. Ghost is right on this point. You cannot be a minarchist and a socialist at the same time unless you have a serious multiple personality disorder.


@CM: (To Ghost) "My socialist minarchism does what you describe, except it also limits capitalism"

/fail. It's not minarchism then. Minarchism would not be able to "limit capitalism" in this way.


@CM: "I want to get more people to believe what I believe."

The problem being that 'what you believe' changes every couple of days.


@CM: "It doesn't matter whether or not I understand the market; I feel that Capitalism is exploitive and I don't want anything to do with it."

So you don't understand how capitalism operates, and yet you think you are well-placed to argue against it based on some sort of 'feeling' that you have? You see, this is why you fail. This is why we criticise you.
spyman (424 D(G))
11 Aug 10 UTC
What about anarcho-communism?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism
And did not Marx himself speak of the state whithering away?
spyman (424 D(G))
11 Aug 10 UTC
Or was that Engels?
Jamiet99uk (808 D)
11 Aug 10 UTC
@ spyman: Anarchist Communism would be governed by a network of workers councils which, in my view, would constitute a form of government, and would therefore not be 'anarchism' in the classical sense.

Marx did speak of the state 'withering' away, but saw this as a very long-term goal. What he meant by the withering away of the state is that the political functions of the state would be swallowed up by the economic and administrative functions, resulting in a classless society which would, to a significant degree, run itself without political decisions needing to be taken. Whether this would fit most definitions of anarchy, I am not sure.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Aug 10 UTC
"@Ghost: Go here: http://toddanthonydirect.typepad.com/the_bullshit_observer/2009/10/why-capitalism-doesnt-work.html"

If you follow this man's views, it is a case of the blind leading the blind.
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
11 Aug 10 UTC
I was wondering, with the apparent system that CM employs, namely taking 2 terms and pushing them together to provide an ill-thought out ideology, with a mix of mad-hat Christianity, what sort of systems could you propose. I thought this would make my political opinions more interesting, so I'm going to follow his example.

I am now a Socialist Hindu Nationalist.

I am inspired by the great Christian works of the Brahmo Samaj movement, which provided great argument against the capitalist caste system. Thee work should be emphasised as a great socialist project, and the temple of Somnath should be rebuilt for the people. I believe that Pakistan should be bombed with special wealth-seeking incendiaries.

Prove me wrong.
stratagos (3269 D(S))
11 Aug 10 UTC


@Ghost - your philosophy is flawed as the wealth seeking weapons would target the hidden alien bases, and trigger an interstellar war.

DUH!

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169 replies
cardwarrior (10 DX)
13 Aug 10 UTC
Can't get a MOD to help gameID=32629
A player (to use the term lightly) is losing and refused to unpause. He shoud be banned from future games for such poor sportsmanship, and an over lack of character. MOD's can you help?
5 replies
Open
frito (408 D)
13 Aug 10 UTC
Communicating in a gunboat
What are some ways to conduct diplomacy in a gunboat? Is there a specific system of actions and their meanings?
9 replies
Open
killer135 (100 D)
12 Aug 10 UTC
Killer Fan Club
Idea inspired by tt612, post in here if you like how I play. I bet this thread goes down fast.
11 replies
Open
centurion1 (1478 D)
13 Aug 10 UTC
special live game
Who wants to kill cebturion1

Can't post the link I'm on my phone
26 replies
Open
TheGhostmaker (1545 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
The Masters Champion
The Champion of the inaugural Master's tournament is now certain, even though two games are still ongoing.

See inside...
42 replies
Open
jman777 (407 D)
09 Aug 10 UTC
Meyers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator
I can't remember if I've started a thread about this here before but I personally am a huge fan of their personality test. You can find a pretty good one on facebook called myType and I'm sure if you google it you can turn up something. Has anyone else ever heard of it/taken it? I am an ENTJ (My guess is that most of the people here will be N's and probably NT's at that). If you have heard of it, post thoughts on it or the different types and post your own aswell!
54 replies
Open
cardwarrior (10 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
Refuse to UNPAUSE
I'm in the Game World War V. One of the players had a problem and asked for a game pause. Now everyone is ready to play again, but a player on the verge of being defeated, refuses to UNPAUSE. How can we resolve this?
14 replies
Open
gman314 (100 D)
13 Aug 10 UTC
Abbreviations
What does WTA stand for?
2 replies
Open
Conservative Man (100 D)
11 Aug 10 UTC
There should be 3 axis on the political compass
Government spending and taxes don't belong on the same axis as the amount of market limitation. What do you think?
18 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
10 Aug 10 UTC
UFOs exist


They just, y'know, *do*. And you're either blind or part of The Conspiracy if you disagree
115 replies
Open
Agent K (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
Super High Stakes
In honor of 50 Cent, I have created this game.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35612
5 replies
Open
Live game at Oli
Is anybody around here willing to play live game on different map.
I was thinking about playing on this one: http://olidip.net/variants.php#BuildAnywhere or http://olidip.net/variants.php#ClassicFog or http://olidip.net/variants.php#Crowded or http://olidip.net/variants.php#SevenIslands
8 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
12 Aug 10 UTC
Eurodipcon
Anyone going?
http://www.eurodipcon.com/en/european-championship-of-diplomacy-2010.php
4 replies
Open
pyrofpz (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
so
for all you peeps out there, theres two live games goin on, you should join.
see i bit my pillow, ive already eaten before im not eating it again
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35641
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35640
6 replies
Open
cujo8400 (300 D)
07 Aug 10 UTC
Start a Dynasty in the Juggernaut Football League!
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/juggernautfl

Only 12 spots left.
More info below!
4 replies
Open
Haryu (106 D)
12 Aug 10 UTC
where are you?
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35652
0 replies
Open
Thucydides (864 D(B))
08 Aug 10 UTC
"Invent a clever saying and your name will live forever!" -Anonymous
heh
29 replies
Open
Bob (742 D)
12 Aug 10 UTC
Time Lapses Are Awesome
Though the definition of awesome is highly controversial, I believe it is safe to say that Time Lapses of multi-directional clouds, where two layers of clouds are going in opposing directions, are quite awesome. See below:
1 reply
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
Take down killer135 a notch.
Who wants to join a game to take him down a notch? Anonymous (so he can't whine about being ganged up on), 24-48 hours, classic, WTA, full press.
118 replies
Open
pyrofpz (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
jaja
jajashdkjas new game jc
2 replies
Open
Agent K (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
50 cent thread slash Best Rapper Thread
Also join this large pot game.
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35612
0 replies
Open
pyrofpz (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
new game
i swear to god if no one starts going to join these live games, im eating my pillow.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35637
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=35639
4 replies
Open
pyrofpz (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
new game
you better join this one. gdit
3 replies
Open
pyrofpz (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
live game
join now.
4 replies
Open
pyrofpz (0 DX)
12 Aug 10 UTC
yo
yo yo yo, like theres hella new live games that i swear you should join man.
Itll be awesome
2 replies
Open
curtis (8870 D)
12 Aug 10 UTC
wta gunboat live
gameID=35626

Need 4 players...
4 replies
Open
Crazyter (1335 D(G))
08 Aug 10 UTC
GR Challenge on Ancient Med WTA Anon
Anyone in the top 200 GR interested in a WTA anon game on the ancient med variant? I played my first game on that variant recently and liked it a lot except for the CDs.
20 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
10 Aug 10 UTC
Let's Roleplay Here For a Bit...
We seem to have most of our philosophical discussions come back to the God Question. But I think we misunderstand those with different views often. So--Christians/Jews/People Of Any Faith, answer the following questions as if you were an Atheist or Mitigated Skeptic (ie, "We just don't/can't know yet) and Atheists/Skeptics, answer as you think a Person of Faith would. You may ONLY answer as "yourself" and/or criticize/correct other posts AFTER you yourself have posted.
37 replies
Open
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